So, bottom line is a Saiga 20 reliable out of the box

[arbud 0]

Would like to get one but have been reading here about all the wedges, springs and such to make them feed properly. Which do these like better, 2 3/4 or 3" shells. What is the verdict gentlemen. Bud

[L9X25 0]

Bud,

 

When you purchase a new Saiga 20, it comes with a 5 round magazine for 2 3/4" shells and a 5 round magazine for 3" shells.

 

All of the larger capacity factory magazines (that I am aware of) a designed for 3" shells.

 

Since many folks want 10 round magazines, that are only available for 3" shells, and choose to run the less expensive 2 3/4" shells, the wedges are necessary to make the 3" magazines function reliably with 2 3/4" shells.

 

Once broken in, the shotgun should work properly if used with the correct magazines for the shells.

 

I intend to use mine exclusively for competition and purchaes several of the 10 round magazines and converted them to function with 2 3/4 shells. My gun functions perfectly with the unmodified 5 round magazines for the correct size of shells.

[dinzag 31]

Just go 3" outta the box...

[yellowcarbon 4]

My 22" S-20 ran right out of the box with everything except the very light target loads (Federal 100rd target pack from Walmart). Even now with about 1000rds through it, it still has trouble with the very light target loads. It will shoot 4 out of 5 rds, with usually the last round stove piped. It will run 100% with any field or stronger load. Since Estate field load isn't much more than the target loads, I doesn't cost too much more.

Edited June 12, 2007 by yellowcarbon

[L9X25 0]

Yellow,

 

Mine is about the same as yours with the Promo Winchester and Federal stuff that they sell at Walmart.

 

We have 2 alternatives to solve the problem completely:

 

1 Experiment with reduced power recoil springs (they are identical to a 1911 Government model 16# recoil spring);

 

2 Increase the port sizes drilled into the barrel gradually until the gun functions.

 

Since the recoil spring modification is easiest to do, and easy to reverse, I chose this method to try first. I replaced one of the recoil springs with a 12# 1911 spring and intend to try it this weekend and will report back. If I am unable to make it work with spring modifications alone, porting will soon follow.

 

I have cases and cases of the Winchester promo ammo and do not intend to buy special ammo to feed this beast. It will eventually learn to eat what the other shotguns eat. (I had to port my Rem 1100 for it to be 100% reliable with the promo ammo too)

 

Leo

Edited June 12, 2007 by LEO L

[fobmagi 0]

This is my experience:

 

If you use the correct length ammo with the correct size mag and don't use the absolute cheapest 2 3/4" shells in the world (I run Remington 2-3/4" heavy quail loads at the range) you will have almost no problems after the first 100-200 rounds.

 

I've never fired 3" rounds and I've never experimented with the high cap mags or altered mags. the first 100 rounds were like 20-40% stovepipes. the second 100 rounds 10% stovepipes. next 100 I had like 1. I have about 1000 rounds through it now and I haven't had any failures of any kind for over 250 rounds.

 

I have done no alterations to the gun, only field stripping and cleaning.

[arbud 0]

Took out the new Saiga 20 today. Shot 30 rounds of #4 2 3/4 and 25 rounds of #4 3"had4 stvepipes on ejection with the 2 3/4. No problems at all with the 3". Bud

[yellowcarbon 4]

I have found that Estate field loads work fine for plinking. In fact, any field load that I have tried (Winchester, Federal, etc) all seem to work. It is only the very cheap stuff from Wal-mart that doesn't run 100%. Since the field loads aren't too much more ($1 or so a box) than the Winchester/Federal Promo stuff, I didn't feel the need to modify my gun.

 

Since my S-20 runs 100% with any defensive load I have tried, I did not want to mess with it's reliablity. Even with franken 10rd mags (2 5rd mags chopped & glued together by Danzig), it has run 100% with any buckshot loads I have tried. Occasionally I will put a few promo loads mixed in with the field loads to purposely get a FTE to practice clearing it.

 

I live in a suburb of Phoenix and have many gunshops as well has large hunting/fishing shops (Cabelas, Bass Pro Shop, Sportsman's Warehouse) to find various 20ga shells. So I went to one and bought 4 or 5 different loads to test it out when I first got it. Unfortunely I got the loads mixed up in my head and had to do it again to figure out which ran reliably.

[L9X25 0]

Pretty disappointed in my progress toward getting this S-20 to run on the Winchester promo loads. I previously reported that it had gotten about 80-90% reliable after shooting a few boxes through the gun and I felt that I was sooo close to being 100%.

 

I replaced the recoil spring with a much lighter spring and it had NO effect. It is still intermittantly stove piping (FTE). Put a few more boxes through the gun and feel as if I was losing ground since it was becoming less reliable as I continued shooting. It seems obvious that I am not going to get it totally reliable without enlarging the ports. I decided to remove the gas block and enlarge the ports. Got the pins out easily but could not get the gas block to move at all. Let it sit with penetrating oil and tried again but no cigar. I tried tapping it off using various soft punches but never saw any evdence that it had even started to move, much less come off. I tapped the pins back in easily, confirming that it had not budged.

 

Any sucess stories on how to remove the gas block using rudimentary home tools?

 

And, yes, I have torches but things usually turn for the worse whenever the torches come out to play. My track record with heat is close to 0%.

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Then you won't like my suggestion....

I went through this same thing with Aegis Dei's S-20 that had been cut back to less than 17" and a poly installed. We had to use a propane torch and penetrating oil but once it got hot it came loose with a few good whacks using a 2 lb hammer and brass punch. Don't be afraid. Just heat it and beat it! The fun part is actually putting it back on and lining it up.

BTW we ended up having to do the whole operation twice before getting the ports right. Make sure and get them big enough the first time. I've got the correct measurements somewhere but you can prolly PM Dinzag for them sooner than I can locate them.

You might also want to wrap your barrel with something to keep it from getting scratched by the GB if it slides all the way off.

[L9X25 0]

Thanks, I found his post and will use his measurements, I only want to do this once.

 

Leo

 

Press off the gas block. There are 3 ports under it.

I drilled mine to 0.093" (3/32") they are 45 degrees off vertical pointed rearward.

Start smaller if you wish.

[kmoore 3]

My experience: 2 S20's.

 

First one ran like a scalded cat right out of the box ... until about 1000 rounds. Then occasionally feed problem. DING DING DING the light went on, hmm, maybe I should clean this thing? Still had factory grease/gue in it! It was amazing it had run right out of the box! I was total noob to them, I thought AK = shoot it however. Cleaned it up, Ran 100% ~ 500 more rounds, then I sold it This was a EAA import, bought back in 2002 or 3?

 

Bought a second one a year back. Ran it for the first time a month ago. Ran fine (I got it lightly used, got it for a good deal and had always missed that first S20 ). Got a couple of 10 round mags for it. Apparently some function fine with no wedges. I tested a couple of mags thru and it ran fine, so I took it to Norfolk for tac shotgun match, bunch of feeding problems. My bad for not tuning the mags with wedges, but I got lazy and thought I was good to go after 30 rounds "testing"

 

But I haven't shot it since (life's busy, work's got me on the road a lot).

 

BTW, there used to be hi capacity 2 3/4 mags, and there were some 8 round mags made too. A friend has some of both.

[L9X25 0]

An update on my conversion project to keep the 20ga section from dying completely.

 

Thanks to Cobra and Dinzag I was able to convert the gun myself and get it back together and have it function perfectly on the first try.

 

The bolt functions much smoother with the Tapco hammer (unmodified) and that seemed to make it more reliable with the Winchester promo 7/8oz loads. I also found that the gas block was not straight from the factory and was causing a slight bind between the gas tube and the op-rod. I aligned them a little better and the bolt seems to close a little smoother. The gun is back to 90% reliable with the promo ammo but will still randomly stovepipe one out of each mag.

 

I have not ported the barrel yet because I still have less than 200 shells through the gun and only 50 on the conversion. It is still possible that the gun could become reliable with the promo loads once it loosens up a little more. I may still have to port it so that my 13 year old son can shoot it in 3-gun too.

 

Thanks guys, I literally could not have done this without you.

 

Leo