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dinzag

Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles

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Thanks! This helps alot! I just got my first Saiga yesterday and am looking forward to converting it!

 

btw, If I replace, buttstock, hammer, trigger, and disconnecter with US parts i will be fine with the pistol grip, as long as it US, same with muzzle device if I plan to add one? As long as its US.

Edited by welder79

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Thank you Dinzag for the explanation.

 

For a S12. I would like to use a CAA stock which is not a made in the USA stock.

 

If I do the USA PG, trigger, hammer, and handguard I will be ok, yes? That would give me 9 foreign parts from what I am counting.

 

Also, adding maybe Cobra's rail or a rail that slides on the side rail made in the USA, adding a muzzle brake, those count towards US made parts, yes?

 

But that doesn't matter does it; you need no more than 10 foreign made parts regardless of how many USA parts you have.

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Thank you Dinzag for the explanation.

 

For a S12. I would like to use a CAA stock which is not a made in the USA stock.

 

If I do the USA PG, trigger, hammer, and handguard I will be ok, yes? That would give me 9 foreign parts from what I am counting.

 

Also, adding maybe Cobra's rail or a rail that slides on the side rail made in the USA, adding a muzzle brake, those count towards US made parts, yes?

 

But that doesn't matter does it; you need no more than 10 foreign made parts regardless of how many USA parts you have.

PG, trigger, disconnector, hammer and handguard - 5 US parts.

Adding those parts would make it a US made firearm for sure.

 

Rail & scope mounts - not listed parts

Brakes are listed parts - muzzle device

 

No more than 10 imported parts - you got it.

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So you can can 10 forein parts, and its legal, but 11 isn't? or is it 9 parts legal, 10 isn't?

Ten or less foreign parts is legal.

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Would submiting an ATF form 1 for an SBS and sawing the barrel down to oh say 12'' make my S-12 "unsporting"?

Chopping the barrel would remove the "Muzzle attachments" part leaving me with 13 parts, toss the factory magizine (replace with a U.S. made one) and I'm at 10, right?

It would seem that I would have a "bad gun" if I took my 14 part factory S-12 and stuck a 10 round mag in it. If that is true, good thing I didn't buy any 10 round mags.

Some of these gun laws are like some kind of sick game.

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Would submiting an ATF form 1 for an SBS and sawing the barrel down to oh say 12'' make my S-12 "unsporting"?

Chopping the barrel would remove the "Muzzle attachments" part leaving me with 13 parts, toss the factory magizine (replace with a U.S. made one) and I'm at 10, right?

It would seem that I would have a "bad gun" if I took my 14 part factory S-12 and stuck a 10 round mag in it. If that is true, good thing I didn't buy any 10 round mags.

Some of these gun laws are like some kind of sick game.

I'd think any SBS is 'unsporting.' A stock Saiga S12 only has 13 countable parts, so if you use an AGP ten rounder you are still legal.

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Would submiting an ATF form 1 for an SBS and sawing the barrel down to oh say 12'' make my S-12 "unsporting"?

Chopping the barrel would remove the "Muzzle attachments" part leaving me with 13 parts, toss the factory magizine (replace with a U.S. made one) and I'm at 10, right?

It would seem that I would have a "bad gun" if I took my 14 part factory S-12 and stuck a 10 round mag in it. If that is true, good thing I didn't buy any 10 round mags.

Some of these gun laws are like some kind of sick game.

I'd think any SBS is 'unsporting.' A stock Saiga S12 only has 13 countable parts, so if you use an AGP ten rounder you are still legal.

Yeah, once it's an NFA weapon, you no longer have to play the 922r game.

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I'm a little confused here. On an S12 shotgun if the grooved plug in the gas chamber is the piston and the extension on the end of the bolt carrier (the piston on a rifle) is an operating rod, does that not make 15 parts on a shotgun with the threaded barrel? Ie: rifle has piston only & shotgun has "piston plug" and operating rod.

Am I not seeing something or counting wrong? :unsure:

There is no op rod in the S12 or any of the Saigas. That part you are referring to is a portion of the bolt carrier.

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I'm a little confused here. On an S12 shotgun if the grooved plug in the gas chamber is the piston and the extension on the end of the bolt carrier (the piston on a rifle) is an operating rod, does that not make 15 parts on a shotgun with the threaded barrel? Ie: rifle has piston only & shotgun has "piston plug" and operating rod.

Am I not seeing something or counting wrong? :unsure:

There is no op rod in the S12 or any of the Saigas. That part you are referring to is a portion of the bolt carrier.

 

Hi Tritium, I guess my confusion is in Dinzags description shown above where he describes the part in ? as an operating rod OR carrier extension. The list of parts count from BATF does list an operating rod. Do they consider it an operating rod and in the parts count for the shotgun?

Don't want to inavertantly come up one part short for 922r. Would really like to replace "gas plug" piston with US part also (just to be sure) but have not been able to find replacement. "Hotbarrel" on AK forum makes SS pistons but has not made any "gas plug" types yet. Does anyone know who makes replacement for the S-12 gas piston (plug)?

Thanks for your consideration. :unsure:

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Hi Tritium, I guess my confusion is in Dinzags description shown above where he describes the part in ? as an operating rod OR carrier extension. The list of parts count from BATF does list an operating rod. Do they consider it an operating rod and in the parts count for the shotgun?

Don't want to inavertantly come up one part short for 922r. Would really like to replace "gas plug" piston with US part also (just to be sure) but have not been able to find replacement. "Hotbarrel" on AK forum makes SS pistons but has not made any "gas plug" types yet. Does anyone know who makes replacement for the S-12 gas piston (plug)?

Thanks for your consideration. :unsure:

There is no op rod in the shotgun according to the BATFE. A 'plug' part made in the US is available from Tromix, for $45 according to a recent post by Tony Rumore, the owner, although it's not shown on his website. You can call him to order--phone number is on his site.

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Hi Tritium, I guess my confusion is in Dinzags description shown above where he describes the part in ? as an operating rod OR carrier extension. The list of parts count from BATF does list an operating rod. Do they consider it an operating rod and in the parts count for the shotgun?

Don't want to inavertantly come up one part short for 922r. Would really like to replace "gas plug" piston with US part also (just to be sure) but have not been able to find replacement. "Hotbarrel" on AK forum makes SS pistons but has not made any "gas plug" types yet. Does anyone know who makes replacement for the S-12 gas piston (plug)?

Thanks for your consideration. :unsure:

There is no op rod in the shotgun according to the BATFE. A 'plug' part made in the US is available from Tromix, for $45 according to a recent post by Tony Rumore, the owner, although it's not shown on his website. You can call him to order--phone number is on his site.

 

Thanks for the info Tritium, I'll check it out. Whada we call these conversions? American Saigas?

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Thanks for the info Tritium, I'll check it out. Whada we call these conversions? American Saigas?

You're welcome. They are most commonly referred to simply as 'converted Saigas.' Everyone pretty much understands what that means.

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The 5rd you're ok, the 8rd is a grey area, we believe it to be considered non-sporting so we say NO just to cover everyone.

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The 5rd you're ok, the 8rd is a grey area, we believe it to be considered non-sporting so we say NO just to cover everyone.

 

Why is it different with the stock magazine? Another thing that doesn't make sense is that youre not "assembling it" like 922r suggests if you're hypothetically using a stock saiga with an American made 10 round magazine.

Edited by segasaiga

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A little $200 bribe to the ATF will cure all those problems.

"Yeah, once it's an NFA weapon, you no longer have to play the 922r game". :devil:

 

If you have a 14 part gun a hack saw and a U.S. made 10 rounder can remove those 14 parts leaving you with 10, or you can go buy a hand full of U.S. made parts and throw them on your gun.

 

"The 8rd mags are not importable WITH the gun".

I guess if they are non importable with the gun that more or less means the 8 rounders have all ready been considered and rubber stamped "unsporting". But if it was an unsporting gun with a bore greater than .50 it would be a DD, but for some reason its not. Gun control is so fucking retarded.

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Putting the magazine INTO the gun is an Assembly.

 

The 8rd mags are not importable WITH the gun.

 

They're probably confusing that with the magazine on a normal horizontal shotgun like a 590 where the magazine is internal.

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No, they're not confusing it. They have the same standard for the Rifles as well. Inserting the magazine into the gun is an assembly. You may NOT assemble a gun of more than 10 foreign parts.

 

3 of those parts are in the magazine. How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?

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How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?

 

Those components are also in internal magazines.

 

I still dont understand how youre able to insert the magazine that came with it without violating 922r, because that would be assembling it with less than 10 US made parts, correct?

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How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?

 

Those components are also in internal magazines.

 

I still dont understand how youre able to insert the magazine that came with it without violating 922r, because that would be assembling it with less than 10 US made parts, correct?

 

The 2 and 5 round mags make them "sporting", so you can have more then 10 parts.

Take my 14 part gun, replace the russian mag with a U.S. made 10 rounder and I would have an 11 imported part non sporting gun. Or stick a russian 8 rounder on there, same thing now you would have a 14 part non sporting gun. Any thing more than 10 imported parts in a non sporting gun is frowned apon.

Tube mag guns can hold more then 5 rounds and be considered sporting. Like I said befor "gun control is fucking retarded".

I say pay the $200 for a stamp or throw a few hand fulls of U.S. made parts in the gun and every one will be happy.

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How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?

 

Those components are also in internal magazines.

 

I still dont understand how youre able to insert the magazine that came with it without violating 922r, because that would be assembling it with less than 10 US made parts, correct?

 

The 2 and 5 round mags make them "sporting", so you can have more then 10 parts.

Take my 14 part gun, replace the russian mag with a U.S. made 10 rounder and I would have an 11 imported part non sporting gun. Or stick a russian 8 rounder on there, same thing now you would have a 14 part non sporting gun. Any thing more than 10 imported parts in a non sporting gun is frowned apon.

Tube mag guns can hold more then 5 rounds and be considered sporting. Like I said befor "gun control is fucking retarded".

I say pay the $200 for a stamp or throw a few hand fulls of U.S. made parts in the gun and every one will be happy.

 

Interesting, but there are like 2 gray areas there. "sporting" since its not defined, and "assembly" since its not an internal magazine. Wouldn't you be able to take a USA made 10 round magazine bear hunting in alaska since bear hunting doesnt have the 3 round limit deer hunting has?

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It has no bearing on what you use the 10 rd for. over 5 rds in a MAGAZINE fed SHOTGUN is UNSPORTING by the undefined definitions that the government has given.

 

Assembling is the act of putting things together. Putting a magazine into a shotgun is putting it together. it is assembly.

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