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Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles


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#1 dinzag

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 04:06 PM

Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles

In this document I will attempt to express my understanding of the current laws and how they apply to the Saiga firearms. If you have questions & concerns or disagree with what I've put together, we can modify. The scope of this is to have a post to link members to if they have parts count questions. I realize there are several posts on this, but most do not specifically apply to both rifles and shotguns. Maybe this can be stickied somewhere handy.

Before doing anything, check with your local and state laws as you may have tighter regulations than what the ATF has laid out for us.

The Saigas have a certain number of parts in their unmodified “Sporting” configuration. They are considered imported because they have more than 10 imported parts in them. As such they are held to 922 ® compliance.

If you want to use high capacity magazines, convert the weapon to pistol grip configuration or use a flash hider, it will then be considered unsporting. You will need to swap out parts so that you have no more than 10 imported parts in it. It will then be considered a US made firearm and 922® does not apply. See bottom of this post for more 922® info and some grey areas.



Parts List

Here’s a quick overview of the parts count determined by the ATF definition letter listed at http://www.soupbowl.....ru/page12.html. For the Saiga rifles, refer to the Galil/AK parts count. The Saiga Shotguns are directly referenced.

A Saiga Rifle in factory configuration has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun threaded for chokes has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun not threaded for chokes has 13 parts.

(parts on a factory config saiga are in bold)

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)
(5) Muzzle attachments (shotguns w/ threaded barrels only)
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstock
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates



Examples:

You have a Saiga-12 with factory threaded barrel. (14 parts) You want to convert it to pistol grip configuration. You will need 5 U.S. made parts to make it a U.S. firearm since adding a pistol grip is adding a part from the list.

-or-

You have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines. Since high capacity magazines are considered “unsporting”, and would be in violation of 922®. Your rifle with mag has 14 parts. Use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston and you are good to go.

-or-

You have a Saiga-410 and want to use the factory 10 round magazines. This is believed to be considered high-capacity in a shotgun and be in violation of 922®. You will need to remove imported parts and replace them with U.S. made parts so you have no more than 10 imported ones total.



Grey Areas

Sporting Purposes…
While this was defined in the now-defunct AWB of 1994, the term "Sporting Purposes" is in actuality determined by the opinion of the Secretary of the Treasury. There is no clear ruling on what exactly that means so adding a bayonet lug or flash hider to the firearm may be considered "unsporting" and in violation of 922®.

High Capacity Magazines…
It has been argued what exactly high capacity magazine means. Generally it has been understood that the magazine limit for rifles is 10 rounds and shotguns is 5. Anymore than that and it’s considered “unsuitable for sporting purposes”. Problem is there are no clear definitions stating that exactly.

Flash Hider/Muzzle Brakes/Compensators…
Any type of FH, Brake, Comp or choke are considered muzzle devices. They are included in the parts count. However there has been some disagreement in the past as to whether adding a muzzle brake constitutes making the imported weapon “unsporting”.

Shotgun Chokes…
It’s also arguable whether chokes are considered a part or not and the threading itself is not considered a part, but to be on the safe side I’d consider a choke or thread protector a muzzle device.

Shotgun Pistons…
It’s been the general understanding that the grooved plug in the gas block on the shotguns is considered the piston and the rod on the bolt carrier is either and operating rod or carrier extension. The gas piston on the rifles and other AK’s is the part that is threaded into the bolt carrier.

Parts count difference between the rifles and shotguns…
The main difference between the rifle and shotguns parts counts is the shotguns do not have #(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion. I don’t really understand that part because to be they look to have the same general construction, but that is how the definitions are listed by the ATF themselves.



922 ® in short…

Section 922®, of Title 18, U.S.C. prohibits assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles from imported parts. The implementing regulations in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) section 178.39(a), provide that no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d) (3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

For further information about 922®, go to the ATF Website or http://uscode.house.gov/ and search for 18 U.S.C. § 922® and 27 CFR § 478.39 of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968.



In Summary

So you made it through all the gibberish above, I hope I have enlightened you a little about the legalities of modifying a Saiga. In short, convert the thing to a U.S. made firearm and do whatever you want to it. Just mind your parts count!

922® isn't such a bad thing, think of all the U.S. business you are helping to support. Also you are turning that ugly little antelope into a much more graceful looking thing of beauty! Remember, a factory configuration Saiga is an example of what the gun control fanatics would like to have all assault weapons look like. Do your job to support the American economy and convert them to U.S. made firearms!

Attached File  US_Flag_Animated.gif   47.76KB   16 downloads

Edited by dinzag, 01 August 2007 - 04:07 PM.

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#2 welder79

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 07:59 PM

Thanks! This helps alot! I just got my first Saiga yesterday and am looking forward to converting it!

btw, If I replace, buttstock, hammer, trigger, and disconnecter with US parts i will be fine with the pistol grip, as long as it US, same with muzzle device if I plan to add one? As long as its US.

Edited by welder79, 02 August 2007 - 08:05 PM.


#3 dinzag

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Posted 03 August 2007 - 02:23 PM

Yup... :up:

#4 ragnarock47

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Posted 12 October 2007 - 09:30 PM

Thank you Dinzag for the explanation.

For a S12. I would like to use a CAA stock which is not a made in the USA stock.

If I do the USA PG, trigger, hammer, and handguard I will be ok, yes? That would give me 9 foreign parts from what I am counting.

Also, adding maybe Cobra's rail or a rail that slides on the side rail made in the USA, adding a muzzle brake, those count towards US made parts, yes?

But that doesn't matter does it; you need no more than 10 foreign made parts regardless of how many USA parts you have.

#5 dinzag

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 07:18 AM

Thank you Dinzag for the explanation.

For a S12. I would like to use a CAA stock which is not a made in the USA stock.

If I do the USA PG, trigger, hammer, and handguard I will be ok, yes? That would give me 9 foreign parts from what I am counting.

Also, adding maybe Cobra's rail or a rail that slides on the side rail made in the USA, adding a muzzle brake, those count towards US made parts, yes?

But that doesn't matter does it; you need no more than 10 foreign made parts regardless of how many USA parts you have.

PG, trigger, disconnector, hammer and handguard - 5 US parts.
Adding those parts would make it a US made firearm for sure.

Rail & scope mounts - not listed parts
Brakes are listed parts - muzzle device

No more than 10 imported parts - you got it.

#6 ragnarock47

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Posted 13 October 2007 - 06:24 PM

Thank you Dinzag.

#7 Maniac Jack

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 12:48 AM

So you can can 10 forein parts, and its legal, but 11 isn't? or is it 9 parts legal, 10 isn't?
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#8 tritium

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Posted 21 October 2007 - 01:33 AM

So you can can 10 forein parts, and its legal, but 11 isn't? or is it 9 parts legal, 10 isn't?

Ten or less foreign parts is legal.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
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The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
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#9 748

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 05:10 AM

Would submiting an ATF form 1 for an SBS and sawing the barrel down to oh say 12'' make my S-12 "unsporting"?
Chopping the barrel would remove the "Muzzle attachments" part leaving me with 13 parts, toss the factory magizine (replace with a U.S. made one) and I'm at 10, right?
It would seem that I would have a "bad gun" if I took my 14 part factory S-12 and stuck a 10 round mag in it. If that is true, good thing I didn't buy any 10 round mags.
Some of these gun laws are like some kind of sick game.
Back yard converted S12 - now 9 parts with out the factory mag.
Goal - 10 parts or less with the factory mag.

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#10 tritium

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 11:06 AM

Would submiting an ATF form 1 for an SBS and sawing the barrel down to oh say 12'' make my S-12 "unsporting"?
Chopping the barrel would remove the "Muzzle attachments" part leaving me with 13 parts, toss the factory magizine (replace with a U.S. made one) and I'm at 10, right?
It would seem that I would have a "bad gun" if I took my 14 part factory S-12 and stuck a 10 round mag in it. If that is true, good thing I didn't buy any 10 round mags.
Some of these gun laws are like some kind of sick game.

I'd think any SBS is 'unsporting.' A stock Saiga S12 only has 13 countable parts, so if you use an AGP ten rounder you are still legal.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#11 nalioth

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Posted 15 November 2007 - 11:47 AM

Would submiting an ATF form 1 for an SBS and sawing the barrel down to oh say 12'' make my S-12 "unsporting"?
Chopping the barrel would remove the "Muzzle attachments" part leaving me with 13 parts, toss the factory magizine (replace with a U.S. made one) and I'm at 10, right?
It would seem that I would have a "bad gun" if I took my 14 part factory S-12 and stuck a 10 round mag in it. If that is true, good thing I didn't buy any 10 round mags.
Some of these gun laws are like some kind of sick game.

I'd think any SBS is 'unsporting.' A stock Saiga S12 only has 13 countable parts, so if you use an AGP ten rounder you are still legal.

Yeah, once it's an NFA weapon, you no longer have to play the 922r game.
"Tactical" is a mindset, not an equipment list.

#12 Oldone3

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Posted 21 November 2007 - 08:53 PM

Parts Count on Saiga Shotguns and Rifles

In this document I will attempt to express my understanding of the current laws and how they apply to the Saiga firearms. If you have questions & concerns or disagree with what I've put together, we can modify. The scope of this is to have a post to link members to if they have parts count questions. I realize there are several posts on this, but most do not specifically apply to both rifles and shotguns. Maybe this can be stickied somewhere handy.

Before doing anything, check with your local and state laws as you may have tighter regulations than what the ATF has laid out for us.

The Saigas have a certain number of parts in their unmodified “Sporting” configuration. They are considered imported because they have more than 10 imported parts in them. As such they are held to 922 ® compliance.

If you want to use high capacity magazines, convert the weapon to pistol grip configuration or use a flash hider, it will then be considered unsporting. You will need to swap out parts so that you have no more than 10 imported parts in it. It will then be considered a US made firearm and 922® does not apply. See bottom of this post for more 922® info and some grey areas.



Parts List

Here’s a quick overview of the parts count determined by the ATF definition letter listed at http://www.soupbowl.....ru/page12.html. For the Saiga rifles, refer to the Galil/AK parts count. The Saiga Shotguns are directly referenced.

A Saiga Rifle in factory configuration has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun threaded for chokes has 14 parts.
A Saiga shotgun not threaded for chokes has 13 parts.

(parts on a factory config saiga are in bold)

(1) Receiver
(2) Barrels
(3) Barrel extensions
(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion (rifles only)
(5) Muzzle attachments (shotguns w/ threaded barrels only)
(6) Bolts
(7) Bolt carriers
(8) Operating rods
(9) Gas pistons
(10) Trigger housings
(11) Triggers
(12) Hammers
(13) Sears
(14) Disconnectors
(15) Buttstock
(16) Pistol grips
(17) Forearms, handguards
(18) Magazine bodies
(19) Followers
(20) Floorplates



Examples:

You have a Saiga-12 with factory threaded barrel. (14 parts) You want to convert it to pistol grip configuration. You will need 5 U.S. made parts to make it a U.S. firearm since adding a pistol grip is adding a part from the list.

-or-

You have a Saiga-7.62x39 and want to use high capacity magazines. Since high capacity magazines are considered “unsporting”, and would be in violation of 922®. Your rifle with mag has 14 parts. Use U.S. made mags and one additional U.S. made part like a gas piston and you are good to go.

-or-

You have a Saiga-410 and want to use the factory 10 round magazines. This is believed to be considered high-capacity in a shotgun and be in violation of 922®. You will need to remove imported parts and replace them with U.S. made parts so you have no more than 10 imported ones total.



Grey Areas

Sporting Purposes…
While this was defined in the now-defunct AWB of 1994, the term "Sporting Purposes" is in actuality determined by the opinion of the Secretary of the Treasury. There is no clear ruling on what exactly that means so adding a bayonet lug or flash hider to the firearm may be considered "unsporting" and in violation of 922®.

High Capacity Magazines…
It has been argued what exactly high capacity magazine means. Generally it has been understood that the magazine limit for rifles is 10 rounds and shotguns is 5. Anymore than that and it’s considered “unsuitable for sporting purposes”. Problem is there are no clear definitions stating that exactly.

Flash Hider/Muzzle Brakes/Compensators…
Any type of FH, Brake, Comp or choke are considered muzzle devices. They are included in the parts count. However there has been some disagreement in the past as to whether adding a muzzle brake constitutes making the imported weapon “unsporting”.

Shotgun Chokes…
It’s also arguable whether chokes are considered a part or not and the threading itself is not considered a part, but to be on the safe side I’d consider a choke or thread protector a muzzle device.

Shotgun Pistons…
It’s been the general understanding that the grooved plug in the gas block on the shotguns is considered the piston and the rod on the bolt carrier is either and operating rod or carrier extension. The gas piston on the rifles and other AK’s is the part that is threaded into the bolt carrier.

Parts count difference between the rifles and shotguns…
The main difference between the rifle and shotguns parts counts is the shotguns do not have #(4) Mounting blocks, trunnion. I don’t really understand that part because to be they look to have the same general construction, but that is how the definitions are listed by the ATF themselves.



922 ® in short…

Section 922®, of Title 18, U.S.C. prohibits assembly of certain semiautomatic rifles from imported parts. The implementing regulations in Title 27, Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) section 178.39(a), provide that no person shall assemble a semiautomatic rifle or any shotgun using more than 10 of the imported parts listed in paragraph © of this section if the assembled firearm is prohibited from importation under section 925(d) (3) as not being particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes.

For further information about 922®, go to the ATF Website or http://uscode.house.gov/ and search for 18 U.S.C. § 922® and 27 CFR § 478.39 of the Gun Control Act (GCA) of 1968.



In Summary

So you made it through all the gibberish above, I hope I have enlightened you a little about the legalities of modifying a Saiga. In short, convert the thing to a U.S. made firearm and do whatever you want to it. Just mind your parts count!

922® isn't such a bad thing, think of all the U.S. business you are helping to support. Also you are turning that ugly little antelope into a much more graceful looking thing of beauty! Remember, a factory configuration Saiga is an example of what the gun control fanatics would like to have all assault weapons look like. Do your job to support the American economy and convert them to U.S. made firearms!

Attached File  US_Flag_Animated.gif   47.76KB   16 downloads


I'm a little confused here. On an S12 shotgun if the grooved plug in the gas chamber is the piston and the extension on the end of the bolt carrier (the piston on a rifle) is an operating rod, does that not make 15 parts on a shotgun with the threaded barrel? Ie: rifle has piston only & shotgun has "piston plug" and operating rod.
Am I not seeing something or counting wrong? :unsure:

#13 tritium

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 12:10 AM

I'm a little confused here. On an S12 shotgun if the grooved plug in the gas chamber is the piston and the extension on the end of the bolt carrier (the piston on a rifle) is an operating rod, does that not make 15 parts on a shotgun with the threaded barrel? Ie: rifle has piston only & shotgun has "piston plug" and operating rod.
Am I not seeing something or counting wrong? :unsure:

There is no op rod in the S12 or any of the Saigas. That part you are referring to is a portion of the bolt carrier.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#14 Oldone3

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:20 PM

I'm a little confused here. On an S12 shotgun if the grooved plug in the gas chamber is the piston and the extension on the end of the bolt carrier (the piston on a rifle) is an operating rod, does that not make 15 parts on a shotgun with the threaded barrel? Ie: rifle has piston only & shotgun has "piston plug" and operating rod.
Am I not seeing something or counting wrong? :unsure:

There is no op rod in the S12 or any of the Saigas. That part you are referring to is a portion of the bolt carrier.


Hi Tritium, I guess my confusion is in Dinzags description shown above where he describes the part in ? as an operating rod OR carrier extension. The list of parts count from BATF does list an operating rod. Do they consider it an operating rod and in the parts count for the shotgun?
Don't want to inavertantly come up one part short for 922r. Would really like to replace "gas plug" piston with US part also (just to be sure) but have not been able to find replacement. "Hotbarrel" on AK forum makes SS pistons but has not made any "gas plug" types yet. Does anyone know who makes replacement for the S-12 gas piston (plug)?
Thanks for your consideration. :unsure:

#15 tritium

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Posted 22 November 2007 - 01:47 PM

Hi Tritium, I guess my confusion is in Dinzags description shown above where he describes the part in ? as an operating rod OR carrier extension. The list of parts count from BATF does list an operating rod. Do they consider it an operating rod and in the parts count for the shotgun?
Don't want to inavertantly come up one part short for 922r. Would really like to replace "gas plug" piston with US part also (just to be sure) but have not been able to find replacement. "Hotbarrel" on AK forum makes SS pistons but has not made any "gas plug" types yet. Does anyone know who makes replacement for the S-12 gas piston (plug)?
Thanks for your consideration. :unsure:

There is no op rod in the shotgun according to the BATFE. A 'plug' part made in the US is available from Tromix, for $45 according to a recent post by Tony Rumore, the owner, although it's not shown on his website. You can call him to order--phone number is on his site.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#16 Oldone3

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 09:37 PM

Hi Tritium, I guess my confusion is in Dinzags description shown above where he describes the part in ? as an operating rod OR carrier extension. The list of parts count from BATF does list an operating rod. Do they consider it an operating rod and in the parts count for the shotgun?
Don't want to inavertantly come up one part short for 922r. Would really like to replace "gas plug" piston with US part also (just to be sure) but have not been able to find replacement. "Hotbarrel" on AK forum makes SS pistons but has not made any "gas plug" types yet. Does anyone know who makes replacement for the S-12 gas piston (plug)?
Thanks for your consideration. :unsure:

There is no op rod in the shotgun according to the BATFE. A 'plug' part made in the US is available from Tromix, for $45 according to a recent post by Tony Rumore, the owner, although it's not shown on his website. You can call him to order--phone number is on his site.


Thanks for the info Tritium, I'll check it out. Whada we call these conversions? American Saigas?

#17 tritium

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Posted 23 November 2007 - 09:43 PM

Thanks for the info Tritium, I'll check it out. Whada we call these conversions? American Saigas?

You're welcome. They are most commonly referred to simply as 'converted Saigas.' Everyone pretty much understands what that means.
A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity.
- Sigmund Freud (or not)
The indiscriminate use of vulgar language is the linguistic crutch of the inarticulate motherf**ker.
-Anonymous
Complexity is easy; simplicity is difficult.
-Georgy Shpagin, mentor to M. Kalashnikov
Peace is that brief, glorious, quiet moment in history when everybody is standing around reloading.
-Anonymous

"Yes, Officer, I was trying to burn my house down.... Why do you ask ?"

#18 segasaiga

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 05:17 PM

I don't own a saiga yet, but had a simple question: Are 10 round mags with 3 USA made parts legal with 100% stock Saiga 12s?

#19 SN13

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Posted 05 December 2007 - 09:34 PM

YES if it's a NON- Threaded barrel S-12. So an IZ-108, yes, IZ-109 NO (Both are 12 ga.)
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#20 segasaiga

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 01:37 PM

YES if it's a NON- Threaded barrel S-12. So an IZ-108, yes, IZ-109 NO (Both are 12 ga.)


What about a iz 109 with the stock magazine made in russia?

#21 SN13

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:07 PM

The 5rd you're ok, the 8rd is a grey area, we believe it to be considered non-sporting so we say NO just to cover everyone.
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#22 segasaiga

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 02:33 PM

The 5rd you're ok, the 8rd is a grey area, we believe it to be considered non-sporting so we say NO just to cover everyone.


Why is it different with the stock magazine? Another thing that doesn't make sense is that youre not "assembling it" like 922r suggests if you're hypothetically using a stock saiga with an American made 10 round magazine.

Edited by segasaiga, 06 December 2007 - 02:33 PM.


#23 SN13

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Posted 06 December 2007 - 03:09 PM

Putting the magazine INTO the gun is an Assembly.

The 8rd mags are not importable WITH the gun.
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#24 748

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 01:26 AM

A little $200 bribe to the ATF will cure all those problems.
"Yeah, once it's an NFA weapon, you no longer have to play the 922r game". :devil:

If you have a 14 part gun a hack saw and a U.S. made 10 rounder can remove those 14 parts leaving you with 10, or you can go buy a hand full of U.S. made parts and throw them on your gun.

"The 8rd mags are not importable WITH the gun".
I guess if they are non importable with the gun that more or less means the 8 rounders have all ready been considered and rubber stamped "unsporting". But if it was an unsporting gun with a bore greater than .50 it would be a DD, but for some reason its not. Gun control is so fucking retarded.
Back yard converted S12 - now 9 parts with out the factory mag.
Goal - 10 parts or less with the factory mag.

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#25 segasaiga

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 01:22 PM

Putting the magazine INTO the gun is an Assembly.

The 8rd mags are not importable WITH the gun.


They're probably confusing that with the magazine on a normal horizontal shotgun like a 590 where the magazine is internal.

#26 SN13

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 04:10 PM

No, they're not confusing it. They have the same standard for the Rifles as well. Inserting the magazine into the gun is an assembly. You may NOT assemble a gun of more than 10 foreign parts.

3 of those parts are in the magazine. How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?
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#27 segasaiga

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 06:36 PM

How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?


Those components are also in internal magazines.

I still dont understand how youre able to insert the magazine that came with it without violating 922r, because that would be assembling it with less than 10 US made parts, correct?

#28 748

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 07:36 PM

How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?


Those components are also in internal magazines.

I still dont understand how youre able to insert the magazine that came with it without violating 922r, because that would be assembling it with less than 10 US made parts, correct?


The 2 and 5 round mags make them "sporting", so you can have more then 10 parts.
Take my 14 part gun, replace the russian mag with a U.S. made 10 rounder and I would have an 11 imported part non sporting gun. Or stick a russian 8 rounder on there, same thing now you would have a 14 part non sporting gun. Any thing more than 10 imported parts in a non sporting gun is frowned apon.
Tube mag guns can hold more then 5 rounds and be considered sporting. Like I said befor "gun control is fucking retarded".
I say pay the $200 for a stamp or throw a few hand fulls of U.S. made parts in the gun and every one will be happy.
Back yard converted S12 - now 9 parts with out the factory mag.
Goal - 10 parts or less with the factory mag.

"The Wolf always sleeps well...it is the Sheep who stay awake"
~ Old Ukrainian proverb

#29 segasaiga

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Posted 07 December 2007 - 08:07 PM

How can they NOT consider it assembly if 3 of the 20 parts that you can't have more than 10 of are COMPONENTS OF THE MAGAZINE?


Those components are also in internal magazines.

I still dont understand how youre able to insert the magazine that came with it without violating 922r, because that would be assembling it with less than 10 US made parts, correct?


The 2 and 5 round mags make them "sporting", so you can have more then 10 parts.
Take my 14 part gun, replace the russian mag with a U.S. made 10 rounder and I would have an 11 imported part non sporting gun. Or stick a russian 8 rounder on there, same thing now you would have a 14 part non sporting gun. Any thing more than 10 imported parts in a non sporting gun is frowned apon.
Tube mag guns can hold more then 5 rounds and be considered sporting. Like I said befor "gun control is fucking retarded".
I say pay the $200 for a stamp or throw a few hand fulls of U.S. made parts in the gun and every one will be happy.


Interesting, but there are like 2 gray areas there. "sporting" since its not defined, and "assembly" since its not an internal magazine. Wouldn't you be able to take a USA made 10 round magazine bear hunting in alaska since bear hunting doesnt have the 3 round limit deer hunting has?

#30 SN13

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Posted 08 December 2007 - 10:12 AM

It has no bearing on what you use the 10 rd for. over 5 rds in a MAGAZINE fed SHOTGUN is UNSPORTING by the undefined definitions that the government has given.

Assembling is the act of putting things together. Putting a magazine into a shotgun is putting it together. it is assembly.
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