RUSS JONES 0 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hi. Can anyone recommend a lawyer in cincinnati to setup a trust to purchase NFA firearms? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hi. Can anyone recommend a lawyer in cincinnati to setup a trust to purchase NFA firearms? Thanks. I assume your Sheriff won't sign. You would think that the new state law would make it illegal for him not to sign for a gun or item that the state says is legal. Maybe you can call him and run that by his dumb ass and threaten him with a lawsuit if he doesn't sign. If it doesn't work then set up the trust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mccumber1916 1 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hi. Can anyone recommend a lawyer in cincinnati to setup a trust to purchase NFA firearms? Thanks. does it require a lawyer... or can one do it one's self? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
banshee 69 Posted August 13, 2007 Report Share Posted August 13, 2007 Hi. Can anyone recommend a lawyer in cincinnati to setup a trust to purchase NFA firearms? Thanks. does it require a lawyer... or can one do it one's self? I think it depends on the state you live in. Quicken WillMaker Plus works great for a Trust. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Hi. Can anyone recommend a lawyer in cincinnati to setup a trust to purchase NFA firearms? Thanks. I assume your Sheriff won't sign. You would think that the new state law would make it illegal for him not to sign for a gun or item that the state says is legal. Maybe you can call him and run that by his dumb ass and threaten him with a lawsuit if he doesn't sign. If it doesn't work then set up the trust. It can't hurt to try this first, Russ. If I read the new law right it would be illegal for him not to sign. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RUSS JONES 0 Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I been told by several people, its almost impossible to get a CEO to sign in hamiltion county. I'm looking for options without pissing off the local sherriff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I been told by several people, its almost impossible to get a CEO to sign in hamiltion county. I'm looking for options without pissing off the local sherriff. "Almost" being the key word???? Maybe he needs put in his place. The LEO signature is solely meant to let the ATF know that the Sheriff knows it is in his county. Not for the Sheriff's approval. That would be giving the sheriff the power to create and judge his own law. It would be giving him legislative and judicial powers. He only has executive powers. His only power is to enforce the law. And the law says it is legal by the state of Ohio and that no county, city, village...... can enforce a stricter gun control policy than the state law. Maybe you should go to his office or call him and talk to him "nicely" about this. If he refuses to sign tell him you are going to file a lawsuit against him and get the media involved pointing out his obvious abuse of power by granting himself and practicing his own legislative and judicial authority. This is complete bullshit. I wouldn't stand for it without a fight. As a matter a fact, get me his number and I'm going to call this piece for you. I'll be nice and I won't mention your name. What is it you are wanting signed off on? A SBS, SBR, DD, CAN, FA???? If I have to I'm also going to point out to him that only one crime has been committed with a legally registered NFA FA........and it was committed by a sheriff!!!!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RUSS JONES 0 Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I would be interested in a SBS, saiga-12 of course. The local sheriff is Simon Leis. I'll call his office and keep you in the loop on what he says. Also Mike, thanks for your passion on this subject and offering to fight my battle. Congrads on the drum going to market. Thanks again. russ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 14, 2007 Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 I would be interested in a SBS, saiga-12 of course. The local sheriff is Simon Leis. I'll call his office and keep you in the loop on what he says. Also Mike, thanks for your passion on this subject and offering to fight my battle. Congrads on the drum going to market. Thanks again. russ No problem. This kind of stuff really pisses me off. Before you call think of what you are going to say before you call. Think of possible replies from him and what your counter will be. Maybe make some notes on paper to refer to. Keep your cool and try to keep emotion out of your voice no matter what you are telling him. If you have to mention a lawsuit and the media he will take it a lot more serious if you say it in a calm and collective voice. If you say it pissed, he will get pissed and provoked. Say it calm and induce his fear and curiosity of what the potential repercussions might be for him if he denies you your right. He is a voted in official. And the media loves stories on abuse of voted in authority. And the people hate almost any form of abuse from such officials. Use such phrases as " The people of Ohio have the right" , "State law" and such things like that a lot. Let him know in a nice way he is just 1 county offical out of 88 counties that are all governed by the State. Bring him down to perspective and shrink his ego to the bigger picture of the state autority. Good luck. Please do let me know the outcome. Let me know if you want me to make the call. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 I been told by several people, its almost impossible to get a CEO to sign in hamiltion county. I'm looking for options without pissing off the local sherriff. "Almost" being the key word???? Maybe he needs put in his place. The LEO signature is solely meant to let the ATF know that the Sheriff knows it is in his county. Not for the Sheriff's approval. That would be giving the sheriff the power to create and judge his own law. It would be giving him legislative and judicial powers. He only has executive powers. His only power is to enforce the law. And the law says it is legal by the state of Ohio and that no county, city, village...... can enforce a stricter gun control policy than the state law. Maybe you should go to his office or call him and talk to him "nicely" about this. If he refuses to sign tell him you are going to file a lawsuit against him and get the media involved pointing out his obvious abuse of power by granting himself and practicing his own legislative and judicial authority. This is complete bullshit. I wouldn't stand for it without a fight. As a matter a fact, get me his number and I'm going to call this piece for you. I'll be nice and I won't mention your name. What is it you are wanting signed off on? A SBS, SBR, DD, CAN, FA???? If I have to I'm also going to point out to him that only one crime has been committed with a legally registered NFA FA........and it was committed by a sheriff!!!!!! Mike, dude, wtg!!!! Nicely put. BTW, what is the new law that is referred to? Does it apply to Virginia? I'm contemplating a few purchases that need a cleo signatures, my county has an unwilling sheriff (tho I've heard from a couple of guys that I respect that descreet $$ has made it happen in a few cases). No purchases on the immediate future, but I've had in my mind that I would need to go the "trust" route. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 Mike, dude, wtg!!!! Nicely put. BTW, what is the new law that is referred to? Does it apply to Virginia? I'm contemplating a few purchases that need a cleo signatures, my county has an unwilling sheriff (tho I've heard from a couple of guys that I respect that descreet $$ has made it happen in a few cases). No purchases on the immediate future, but I've had in my mind that I would need to go the "trust" route. K, The law I'm speaking of is a new Ohio state law that just went into effect of couple months ago. Before it was passed cities and villages.... was allowed to pass their own gun laws that made thing illegal that the state law said was legal, for example the city of Dayton, Cincinnati, Columbus, Cleveland had strict laws against assault weapons. The new law says that the State law is good through out the entire state and that no city... could pass a stricter law making something illegal that the state said was illegal. Now you can say to those cities and areas that had their own laws. I wish we could see this on the Federal level. Then we could say to states like NY and CA.... So the new law here doesn't apply to Virginia. Still though, the LE signature is not for their "approval", it is for their "acknowledgement" and you might be able to try the same with your Chief. Some LE have turned it into an acceptance signature and that is not right, and not legal. If Virgina and your county or area says NFA items are legal, your LE shouldn't be able to tell you that you can't have it. They are granting themselves power if they try to do so. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kmoore 3 Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 So, you want a phone number from MY sheriff ..... lol. J/K when it gets time to put the green down, I'm going to take this tact. I think VA has some laws already in place, and the observation about the role of the signature is true no matter where you live! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cbear 0 Posted August 18, 2007 Report Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) Just remember Leis was a prosecutor and a judge before he was a Sheriff. Don't try to BS him on the law. You might want to check with One Shot in Newtown. They are a class 3 dealer. Edited August 18, 2007 by cbear Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MikeD 541 Posted August 20, 2007 Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Just remember Leis was a prosecutor and a judge before he was a Sheriff. Don't try to BS him on the law. You might want to check with One Shot in Newtown. They are a class 3 dealer. Then he shouldn't try to BS someone else when they show they know what they are talking about. If a sheriff doesn't sign because of their own personally feelings when nothing in the law says it is illegal, they are abusing their authority. Also, one thing I have been told that seems to be true a lot of times is "A prosecutor is just a lawyer that wasn't good enough to be hired by a practice or start their own." Not stabbing at you or anything, I'm stabbing at the sheriffs that are doing their jobs well. I do have the utmost in respect for LEOs but not the ones that are self-righteous and abuse their authority. They are the ones that give the bigger number of good cops a bad name and it isn't fair to the good cops or the people and they should be removed. K, I'll give your le a try if you want. Send me a pm with the info. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RUSS JONES 0 Posted August 20, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2007 Sorry with the kids going back to school, I've not done a thing except order my drum. Thanks Mike. I was going to visit One Shot & maybe Rapid Fire for some class 3 advise. Will keep eveyone in the loop. Russ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cbear 0 Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 ...Not stabbing at you or anything... No, I understand where your conviction is focused. Leis is a grade A jackass that's had a choke hold on Hamilton county as Sheriff for 2 decades. The sheeple in that county are incapable of voting for anyone else. Thank God I live one county over. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
whatmanual 44 Posted August 21, 2007 Report Share Posted August 21, 2007 (edited) Im in Cincinnati area (Warren County technically near you and Mike). That bill was House Bill 347 Which of course was veto'd the governor ....but then voted on right then and there -and was passed despite his objections -thus became law. http://www.legislature.state.oh.us/bills.cfm?ID=126_HB_347 (Gov. Action Note: Vetoed on 12/07/06; veto overridden in House on 12/07/06 and in Senate on 12/12/06 =Effective law on 3/14/07) Video: http://www.oll.state.oh.us/your_government...ession_id=90779 (real player...go to 5 minutes in and watch until just after 8 minutes of the session to see the Gov. get overriden). http://buckeyefirearms.org/article3397.html Some other research you can find more about it if you like, I've read it as Mike has many times I'm sure. Mike is correct, that its not for his approval. He must show good cause why you shouldnt have it (prove you're a felon or a danger etc). The whole idea on this bill is like a "drivers license". What is a common knowledge law (red light means stop) anywhere you go within the "state" should be the same thing for firearms. Many people became "accidental" felons when they transported their firearm in their trunk or glove box or on their person (with CCW permit) and then during their travel would get pulled over in some county or township that had local ordnances that made it a felony for things like that. Around here (Southwest Ohio), you can practically drive around a block or two and wind up in a different township/ city/ county -very quickly. Anyway, back to the point. Essentially, if he (or any city, village etc) decides to impose their ordnance upon you that is indeed lawful under state law, you can fight it to the state level -where the state will likely say its legal. Best part is that the city/county etc will be responsible for the entire court bill. Citizens certainly don't like 50k here...40k there spent on "frivilous" lawsuits. (more or less, all of the above and more to get you started is at that link). >>> Please note that he MUST to set aside "at least" 15 hours a week for this activity*. So, the "I dont have time" excuse is wrong. (*Granted that was for the Conceal Holder License...not sure if that is "also" for items such as SBS etc. I think it does include that though). ~Steve Edited August 21, 2007 by whatmanual Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RUSS JONES 0 Posted November 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Update. After talking to several local people and a local class 3 dealer, I went the trust route. AS a test,Im making a SBR on form 1 . Mailed my packet to the BATFE last tues the 6th, Election day. I'm also considering a m11/9m or vector uzi till my Tromix SBS is ready. Wish me luck. russ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Well, if you still need the name of a good lawyer in the Cincinnati area I only know of one...Paul Hackett. One of the best officers I've ever had the pleasure to work for. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RUSS JONES 0 Posted November 9, 2007 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 thanks for the info. russ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jaywalker 1 Posted November 9, 2007 Report Share Posted November 9, 2007 Hey Russ! I just wanted to come in with my two cents worth on the trust issue. While I cannot decide for you whether or not a trust is right for you with regards to your local sheriff, I can relay some of my experience with starting a trust for class III ownership. I started my own with Quicken willmaker. It was the easiest thing in the world to do after I did a little research and spoke to a few guys that had done it before me. There are several sources for detailed instructions on various gun forums, the SIG forum being my favorite. There were no fingerprints, no photographs and it was amazingly fast (fifteen days). It is my understanding that some states require that trusts be registered with the state (I don't know about Ohio). Even so, this sounds like it would still be alot less time consuming than waiting on the sheriff. All in all... the trust is a worthwhile way to go about class III ownership. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted November 10, 2007 Report Share Posted November 10, 2007 Simon Leis does not like gun owners amd he will take forever to process concealed carry permits. He was a couty prosecutor and then a judge before becoming sheriff. For someone to get a concealed carry permit in Hamilton County it's easier to go to the sheriff departments in Clermont or Butler Counties. You don't want to piss him off or he knows how to go after you as the pornographers found out when he was prosecutor. I want to ask GunnyR whetehr Paul Hackett is a good pro gun lawyer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted November 11, 2007 Report Share Posted November 11, 2007 I want to ask GunnyR whetehr Paul Hackett is a good pro gun lawyer. Yeah, you could say he's pro gun. Is he a good lawyer? Don't know, but he's a damn good man to have on your side and if I needed a laywer he'd be the man I'd go to. I cite this as an example to show just what his attitude is regarding gun ownership and the right to defend yourself and your property. * Associated Press reported that on 2006-11-19 a car crashed into a fence at Hackett's Indian Hill home. Hackett chased the car down in his truck, carrying an AR-15 assault rifle, and upon finding the vehicle stopped in a driveway, he ordered the occupants of the car to lie face down on the ground. The driver of the car was charged with failure to maintain reasonable control, driving under suspension and carrying a concealed weapon, a pair of brass knuckles found in his pocket.[1] Hackett told police "he had done this about 200 times in Iraq, but this time there was not a translation problem." A grand jury investigated the incident, and cleared Hackett of any charges.[2] Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RUSS JONES 0 Posted January 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted January 7, 2008 Update. I received my form 1 for my short barrel rifle over the weekend. I also purchased a m11/9mm several weeks ago. I'm waiting for a form 4 approval on that. I should have no problem with my paperwork for my tromix short barrel shotgun. I had a lawyer review my trust from WillMaker 2008. He say it looks fine. If any one wants a NFA firearm,but can not get a sign-off, check out a trust. rus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
300RUM 0 Posted January 9, 2008 Report Share Posted January 9, 2008 Update. I received my form 1 for my short barrel rifle over the weekend. I also purchased a m11/9mm several weeks ago. I'm waiting for a form 4 approval on that. I should have no problem with my paperwork for my tromix short barrel shotgun. I had a lawyer review my trust from WillMaker 2008. He say it looks fine. If any one wants a NFA firearm,but can not get a sign-off, check out a trust. rus Russ, I have not cruised this board lately, but I would like to add my two cents here. As you have found, the trust is the way to go, no prints, no pictures, no hat-in-the-hand trying to get CLEO signoff (been there done that in Cuyahoga County). Small Arms Review (March 2007 Vol. 10 No.6 pg.16) opened my eyes to trusts NFA ownership that I thought out of my reach. House Bill 347 http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/article3085.html may make it easier to get CLEO sign off, but if Gerald T. Mcfaul (or your particular Sheriff for that matter) wants to be ass and not sign, then I won't bother him, and I don't, thanks to Revocable Trust. One thing I do recommend is using a Lawyer. When dealing with a Revocable Trust for NFA ownership, you want the "T's" crossed, "I's" dotted, and the onus of a properly excuted trust on the attourney. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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