RDSWriter 5 Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 I am interested in cutting down my Saiga 12 barrel to 18.5 inches. I am somewhat confused by the measurements owners on this board are stating as well as the length indication in the Saiga owners manual. Everyone is stating (as well as the owners manual) that they come with ~22 inch barrels, but when you measure from the bolt face it is closer to 23 inches. Now... the barrle is 22 inches from the front of the receiver... but that is not how the ATF measures, right? I understand that the ATF and U.S. measurement is from the bolt face... thus I can remove 4.5 inches to get to 18.5 inches. This is correct, right? I'm guessing that other nations (e.g. Russia) may measure from the receiver, right? Any help on this topic is GREATLY appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JoeBud 0 Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 You're understanding it correctly. They come "advertised" with 22 inch barrels, but as you state they are actually 23 inches in length. ATF regulations guide states in 179.11 "Meaning of Terms" ....shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt...... Cut away. I'm trying to get the nerve up to do mine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ozone_00 3 Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 I've also heard that barrel length does not include the chamber, so the measurement is taken from the crimped end of a 3" shell, but this is aparently B.S. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 yeh, i was always told to not include the chamber, but this isnt true. leave 1/4-1/2" over 18" from the face of the bolt WITHOUT the hammer resting on the firing pin, to avoid confusing the cops. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Caspian 32 Posted November 27, 2004 Report Share Posted November 27, 2004 The correct way is with the action shut (no cartridge in chamber) measure from the bolt face to the end of the barrel. this is 100% correct. Trust me, it's what i do. Caspian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jnewt 0 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 (edited) Hey guys whats up. First post over here. I see some familiar faces form AR15.com/AK47.net. I think where most of the confusion comes from is the Russians do not measure in inches. They measure in mm. The barrel most people call the 22" barrel is actual 580mm which is 22.8". 1" = 25.4mm To convert inches to mm - multiply inches by 25.4 To convert mm to inches - multiply millimeters by 0.0394 One of these three measurements seam to be where most people make their cut. 18" (457.2mm) being the minimum. Measured from the bolt face. 18 Inches = 457.2 Millimeters 18.25 Inches = 463.55 Millimeters 18.5 Inches = 469.9 Millimeters Easiest thing to do with a standard tape is cut 4 1/2" off the standard 580mm (22.8") barrel. That will make you just over 18.25". Edited February 1, 2005 by jnewt Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Thought this legal reference may help everyone... it's the definite source: DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms 27 CFR Parts 55, 72, 178 and 179 [T.D. ATF-396; Ref: T.D. ATF-363 and Notice No. 807; T.D. ATF-383 and Notice No. 833] RIN 1512-AB35 Implementation of Public Law 103-322, the Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994 (94F-022P) AGENCY: Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), Treasury. ACTION: Final rule, Treasury decision. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- PART 179--MACHINE GUNS, DESTRUCTIVE DEVICES, AND CERTAIN OTHER FIREARMS Par. 5. authority citation for 27 CFR Part 179 continues to read as follows: Authority: 26 U.S.C. 7805. Par. 6. Section 179.11 is amended by revising the third sentence in the definition of ``Firearm'' to read as follows: Sec. 179.11 Meaning of terms. * * * * *Firearm. * * * For purposes of this definition, the length of the barrel having an integral chamber(s) on a shotgun or rifle shall be determined by measuring the distance between the muzzle and the face of the bolt, breech, or breech block when closed and when the shotgun or rifle is cocked. * * ** * * * * Signed: July 25, 1997. John W. Magaw, Director. Approved: August 11, 1997. John P. Simpson, Deputy Assistant Secretary (Regulatory, Tariff and Trade Enforcement) Editorial note: This document was received at the Office of the Federal Register on March 10, 1998. [FR Doc. 98-6591 Filed 3-13-98; 8:45 am] BILLING CODE 4810-31-P Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mordecai 1 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 The easiest way to measure this is to drop a dowel down the barrel of closed (and obviously empty) action, then mark the length. Make sure you try to keep the dowel on the axis. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RDSWriter 5 Posted February 1, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 I agree with you mordecai - a dowel is by far the simplest method and safest... so that you don't get 'flex' in your measuring tool and cut the barrel too short. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted February 1, 2005 Report Share Posted February 1, 2005 Hey guys whats up. First post over here. I see some familiar faces form AR15.com/AK47.net. oh, that place.....well according to them there, we are all a bunch of idiots here. tell them we all said hi, will ya? If they can hear ya from way up on thier pedestals, that is......hopefully this forum does not turn out like those did... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jnewt 0 Posted February 3, 2005 Report Share Posted February 3, 2005 Hey guys whats up. First post over here. I see some familiar faces form AR15.com/AK47.net. oh, that place.....well according to them there, we are all a bunch of idiots here. tell them we all said hi, will ya? If they can hear ya from way up on thier pedestals, that is......hopefully this forum does not turn out like those did... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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