You have the right ot remain silent...

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

http://youfailit.net/files/DontTalktoPolice(wmr).asf

 

Quite interesting.

 

1911

[Azrial 1,091]

Quite interesting. 1911

Yep, but people have talked their way out of jail with me and most other officers I know. While the average person thinks that police are out to make as many arrest as possible, this is usually not true. It is easy to go out on the street and find someone reason to arrest someone very quickly. When I was on the street I was looking for dangerous felons and usually lead my department in their apprehension.

 

Many times I would use a traffic stop or some other relatively minor violation of the law to start my interview. I was looking for reasonable answers to reasonable questions in my attempt to determine if you are a serious criminal or just a honest person that had committed a small infraction of the law.

 

Following the good law professor's advice might well lead me to believe that you deserving of my attention in furtherance of my desire to rid the streets of dangerous crime. But, that is the chance you take.

 

In all honesty some cops are so desperate to make a arrest that they will arrest anyone for anything. Me, I usually averaged 3-4 in a four day work week over the majority of the year.

 

I am not saying that you should always wave your rights and talk to the police, I saying that never talking to the police is not always the answer either. Despite the good professor's example, most people that confess are guilty.

[soberups 1]

I seldom have any reason to be in contact with the police, and when I do I am polite, honest and straightforward. If I know I am in violation of a law, I admit it and dont waste time with BS excuses. The cops I have dealt with are out there looking for bad guys, they arent interested in and dont have the time to waste harrassing law-abiding citizens. I have 21 years of driving with zero tickets. I respect the job they do and the fact that they have to deal with the dregs of society on a constant basis. When you act like a decent and respectful human being, you are usually going to get treated like one in return.

Edited May 28, 2008 by soberups

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

Link broken??

[jrance@iacwds.com 716]

Link broken??

Works for me.

[elvis christ 451]

That guy lost me at "You go girlfriend," I'm not trying to listen to that shit.

 

That being said, I'll admit to the cops when I've committed a traffic infraction, and try to play it off and sometimes they'll just let it ride. If not, I'll go to court and usually the officer doesn't show up, and the case is dismissed. I haven't had to question any cops in court, but I'm pretty sure if I didn't make an ass of myself at the time of the incident, then I could ask them simple questions about the incident and they wouldn't remember too terribly much, considering that 2 or 3 months has passed since the initial incident.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the witness (the officer) can't remember certain details about the incident (ie how he determined I was speeding, if speed detection equipment wasn't used, time of day, weather, etc), does this not constitute grounds for dismissal?

 

On the flip side, a few month ago, a friend of mine and myself got drunk at the bar, walked out the back door at around 2AM, and saw a bobcat front end loader sitting in the alley. He says "I got a universal key for that thing," so of course I said "Let's take this baby for a spin." So we're driving this thing around downtown, and about 15 minutes later the cops were choking me out, and talking about how they were "going to ruin your lives over this shit." They ended up charging us with 1st degree theft of property, which in my opinion was totally overboard considering we didn't have any means to actually steal the thing, and it was pretty obvious we were just a couple of drunks out fucking around. I mean, I could see a disorderly conduct, or criminal mischief or something, but a felony charge was a bit exaggerated.

 

Needless to say, I wouldn't answer any of their or the detectives questions, and simply stated that I would like my attorney. My attorney also had the same mindset as myself, and got the charges dismissed based on the fact that we weren't actually trying to steal the thing, we were just being drunk and stupid. If those guys hadn't tried to fuck us up, I would have had to plea out to something, but instead, I walk scott-free.

 

Some cops can be super vindictive, and I don't really see the reason behind this. Those are the one's that I have no desire to speak with.

[madmax4x4 68]

I like how so many people get way with shit like that and I have to go to court 3 times just to show I have and have always had car insurance just because I didn't put the new copy in the car. And I don't see much difference in stealing a car or any other machinery that you drive, even if it was a "joy ride".

[elvis christ 451]

By legal definition, stealing is when you take something with the intent of making it your own. We had not the means (a trailer, chop shop, whatever) nor the desire to steal a piece of construction equipment. My point was that it was pretty obvious what was going on, and these guys decided to try to fuck us, actually, seemed to take great pleasure in trying to fuck us. Keep in mind, I didn't act like an asshole until they started talking shit. They had my identification, that should answer any questions that they may have.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

On the flip side, a few month ago, a friend of mine and myself got drunk at the bar, walked out the back door at around 2AM, and saw a bobcat front end loader sitting in the alley. He says "I got a universal key for that thing," so of course I said "Let's take this baby for a spin." So we're driving this thing around downtown, and about 15 minutes later the cops were choking me out, and talking about how they were "going to ruin your lives over this shit." They ended up charging us with 1st degree theft of property, which in my opinion was totally overboard considering we didn't have any means to actually steal the thing, and it was pretty obvious we were just a couple of drunks out fucking around. I mean, I could see a disorderly conduct, or criminal mischief or something, but a felony charge was a bit exaggerated.......super vindictive, and I don't really see the reason behind this. Those are the one's that I have no desire to speak with.

 

I guess you have no desire to speak to me either because I would have charged you with the same thing. Stealing is stealing regardless if your drunk or not. Thats like saying the drunk driver didn't commit murder well.....because he was drunk and didn't mean to.

 

The cop did you a favor by "only" choking you out if that what you say he did because if I had seen you trying to steal my vehicle; front loader or not; I would have felt completely justified in shooting your ass seeing as I was protecting myself as you drove towards me...;;wink wink.

 

Yes, you got off scott free but one day you'll grow up and karma will bit you in the nether regions when some little punk does this shit to you and your family. :killer:

 

"Gee-wiz Mrs. elvis christ I could have sworn we parked the car right here???" Meanwhile some little turd is joy-riding your minivan. Yeah, thats THEFT!! :killer:

 

,

Sergeant of Marines signs off!!

Edited June 3, 2008 by MCASgt New River

[elvis christ 451]

On the flip side, a few month ago, a friend of mine and myself got drunk at the bar, walked out the back door at around 2AM, and saw a bobcat front end loader sitting in the alley. He says "I got a universal key for that thing," so of course I said "Let's take this baby for a spin." So we're driving this thing around downtown, and about 15 minutes later the cops were choking me out, and talking about how they were "going to ruin your lives over this shit." They ended up charging us with 1st degree theft of property, which in my opinion was totally overboard considering we didn't have any means to actually steal the thing, and it was pretty obvious we were just a couple of drunks out fucking around. I mean, I could see a disorderly conduct, or criminal mischief or something, but a felony charge was a bit exaggerated.......super vindictive, and I don't really see the reason behind this. Those are the one's that I have no desire to speak with.

 

I guess you have no desire to speak to me either because I would have charged you with the same thing. Stealing is stealing regardless if your drunk or not. Thats like saying the drunk driver didn't commit murder well.....because he was drunk and didn't mean to.

 

The cop did you a favor by "only" choking you out if that what you say he did because if I had seen you trying to steal my vehicle; front loader or not; I would have felt completely justified in shooting your ass seeing as I was protecting myself as you drove towards me...;;wink wink.

 

Yes, you got off scott free but one day you'll grow up and karma will bit you in the nether regions when some little punk does this shit to you and your family. :killer:

 

"Gee-wiz Mrs. elvis christ I could have sworn we parked the car right here???" Meanwhile some little turd is joy-riding your minivan. Yeah, thats THEFT!! :killer:

 

,

Sergeant of Marines signs off!!

 

First of all, reread my post, I didn't say it wasn't stealing because I was drunk, I said it wasn't stealing because I wasn't stealing anything. I had no intention to steal anything, and this was painfully obvious. What am I going to do, drive the thing across town to my house and strip it down in the backyard so I can sell the parts on eBay?

 

 

Furthermore, are you saying that you agree with clogging up the legal system with someone who is of no serious threat to anyone while I'm being prosecuted for what amounts to a silly prank (even though I will readily admit that at 25 I'm too old to be pulling shit like this)? Don't you think there are enough more serious things to be addressed than some stupid shit I did that didn't hurt anything?

 

As far as choking me out vs. shooting me, that's the exact mentality I'm talking about. Wink, wink, I know damn well I'm not in any danger, but what a great excuse to fuck someone up, and get away with it if I lie about what actually happened, wink, wink. That's a great attitude for someone carrying around a gun. Can you say itchy trigger finger? Are you suggesting that's a good way to think?

 

I'll shoot to defend myself from an actual threat, but I'll be damned if I'm going to go through the hassle of trying to prove my innocence in court if there is any doubt that I'm in danger or if I'm going to have to lie about what really happened.

 

You've basically just said that you feel like it's okay to justify killing someone legally, over a piece of property, by lying about your life being in danger. That's sad, man, I hope you can evaluate your mode of thinking and see why I think that's wrong.

[rocinante 100]

Taking or "borrowing" someone's property without permission is theft. I did pretty much the same thing with a bulldozer when I was a stupid and drunk teenager so there is no high and mighty here. I wouldn't of pleaded your sorry logic if I had been busted either. Stupid is no defense. Gee officer I was just having fun. LAME.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

First of all, reread my post, I didn't say it wasn't stealing because I was drunk, I said it wasn't stealing because I wasn't stealing anything. I had no intention to steal anything, and this was painfully obvious. What am I going to do, drive the thing across town to my house and strip it down in the backyard so I can sell the parts on eBay?

 

 

Furthermore, are you saying that you agree with clogging up the legal system with someone who is of no serious threat to anyone while I'm being prosecuted for what amounts to a silly prank (even though I will readily admit that at 25 I'm too old to be pulling shit like this)? Don't you think there are enough more serious things to be addressed than some stupid shit I did that didn't hurt anything?

 

As far as choking me out vs. shooting me, that's the exact mentality I'm talking about. Wink, wink, I know damn well I'm not in any danger, but what a great excuse to fuck someone up, and get away with it if I lie about what actually happened, wink, wink. That's a great attitude for someone carrying around a gun. Can you say itchy trigger finger? Are you suggesting that's a good way to think?

 

I'll shoot to defend myself from an actual threat, but I'll be damned if I'm going to go through the hassle of trying to prove my innocence in court if there is any doubt that I'm in danger or if I'm going to have to lie about what really happened.

 

You've basically just said that you feel like it's okay to justify killing someone legally, over a piece of property, by lying about your life being in danger. That's sad, man, I hope you can evaluate your mode of thinking and see why I think that's wrong.

 

Yes, I do think you should be locked up somewhere because your lack of maturity and because you stole. Silly prank in your drunken stuper could have netted you some VERY serious legalities. As previously stated if your drunk and kill someone it's still murder, you steal and your drunk it's STILL STEALING....not a prank. You stole with reckless disregard and you should be in jail because of it.

 

Choking you out vs. shooting you I'd have no problem with. You come on my property, illegally took possession of something that I worked my ass off and paid for so you can go out and trash and then dump somewhere as a prank....your damn right you should be in jail. Now, I would make myself know and you'd be aware of the situation you placed yourself in so dont give me your high and mighty attitude little one. And as far as defending myself, guess what wise guy.....dead men can't testify. 2 in the chest and 1 in the head....lights out.

 

You need a lot of growing up and God forbid you run into someone like me and try to pull this shit. I defend not only this country but all that I have given blood, sweat and tears for and by God your not going to take it from me as a prank.

Edited June 4, 2008 by MCASgt New River

[Kwicko 8]

Elvis: Whether you intended to trash the Bobcat, scrap it and sell the parts, or what have you, you DID in fact steal it, according to the law. The cops who busted you might have been assholes about it, but they weren't out of line in charging you. Often, a perp will be charged with EVERYTHING the cops and prosecutors can throw at them, knowing full well that some of it either won't stick, or will be used as a bargaining chip in a plea deal. You got lucky.

 

Speaking from experience, having had one of my cars stolen recently, I can say that your intentions really don't factor into it. It didn't matter to me WHY my car was taken, only that it was gone. I spent a good five years of my life building that car, replacing and improving parts, doing research, building custom parts, sourcing hard-to-find stuff from places like Japan, Australia, Belgium, and the UK, only to have some douchebag take it because they felt like a joyride. And what almost pisses me off most is that, when it was recovered, they didn't really take much - but they sure fucked up a lot of other stuff in the process, a good chunk of which I can't easily replace.

 

So, if I'd had the chance, would I have shot them? Hard to say. My "typical" imaginary car-theft scenario involves me using the Saiga (7.62x39) to put a couple rounds straight into the engine block to immediately immobilize the car. (Don't worry; I've got spare engines - those are probably the easiest part of the build!) Then, if they had another car with them or following them, putting a few into its engine, so we can firmly establish that they're not going anywhere anytime soon. But in the heat of the moment, would I aim for "center mass" on the car, or the person stealing it? Hard to say...

 

Legally, I'd be within my rights. Texas still has some pretty lax laws on deadly force, even when it comes to protecting property. Hell, one statute even says you can use deadly force on a simple vandal, but blowing away someone for "tagging" my mailbox seems a bit extreme.

 

Like I said, you got lucky. It could've been a lot worse for you.

 

Mike

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

By legal definition, stealing is when you take something with the intent of making it your own.

If your penal code over there in Bama is similar to ours here, it's actually appropriating property with intent to deprive the owner... which you most certainly did. Driving off in someone elses construction equipment without their consent gets you a pavement snack realy damn quick.

[MCASgt New River 10,036]

The title of the thread is ......"You have the right to remain silent..., better use it!"

 

Hey EC, why don't you take that as a hint and STFU already....wink wink.

Edited June 4, 2008 by MCASgt New River

[elvis christ 451]

First of all, reread my post, I didn't say it wasn't stealing because I was drunk, I said it wasn't stealing because I wasn't stealing anything. I had no intention to steal anything, and this was painfully obvious. What am I going to do, drive the thing across town to my house and strip it down in the backyard so I can sell the parts on eBay?

 

 

Furthermore, are you saying that you agree with clogging up the legal system with someone who is of no serious threat to anyone while I'm being prosecuted for what amounts to a silly prank (even though I will readily admit that at 25 I'm too old to be pulling shit like this)? Don't you think there are enough more serious things to be addressed than some stupid shit I did that didn't hurt anything?

 

As far as choking me out vs. shooting me, that's the exact mentality I'm talking about. Wink, wink, I know damn well I'm not in any danger, but what a great excuse to fuck someone up, and get away with it if I lie about what actually happened, wink, wink. That's a great attitude for someone carrying around a gun. Can you say itchy trigger finger? Are you suggesting that's a good way to think?

 

I'll shoot to defend myself from an actual threat, but I'll be damned if I'm going to go through the hassle of trying to prove my innocence in court if there is any doubt that I'm in danger or if I'm going to have to lie about what really happened.

 

You've basically just said that you feel like it's okay to justify killing someone legally, over a piece of property, by lying about your life being in danger. That's sad, man, I hope you can evaluate your mode of thinking and see why I think that's wrong.

 

Yes, I do think you should be locked up somewhere because your lack of maturity and because you stole. Silly prank in your drunken stuper could have netted you some VERY serious legalities. As previously stated if your drunk and kill someone it's still murder, you steal and your drunk it's STILL STEALING....not a prank. You stole with reckless disregard and you should be in jail because of it.

 

I think you're missing the point here. I wasn't out to steal anything, like I've stated multiple times. And yes, you're right, it did net me "some VERY serious legalities." But like I said, I wasn't dismissing what I did because I was drinking, like you continue to insinuate. AGAIN, I AM NOT JUSTIFYING ANYTHING DUE TO DRUNKENNESS. Please dislodge this notion from your cranium.

Choking you out vs. shooting you I'd have no problem with. You come on my property, illegally took possession of something that I worked my ass off and paid for so you can go out and trash and then dump somewhere as a prank....your damn right you should be in jail. Now, I would make myself know and you'd be aware of the situation you placed yourself in so dont give me your high and mighty attitude little one. And as far as defending myself, guess what wise guy.....dead men can't testify. 2 in the chest and 1 in the head....lights out.

 

Whatever man. You already publicized your willingness to kill someone and lie about your reasoning behind it, so don't pull high and mighty backpedaling with me. Wink, wink, he's comin' right for us! Wink, wink."

 

You need a lot of growing up and God forbid you run into someone like me and try to pull this shit. I defend not only this country but all that I have given blood, sweat and tears for and by God your not going to take it from me as a prank.

Like I said, I know I was wrong, and I'm too old to pull shit like this, but as far as I'm concerned, and the fact of the matter, the charges didn't fit the crime.

 

Elvis: Whether you intended to trash the Bobcat, scrap it and sell the parts, or what have you, you DID in fact steal it, according to the law. The cops who busted you might have been assholes about it, but they weren't out of line in charging you. Often, a perp will be charged with EVERYTHING the cops and prosecutors can throw at them, knowing full well that some of it either won't stick, or will be used as a bargaining chip in a plea deal. You got lucky.

 

That's what I'm saying, if they hadn't have tried to charge me to the utmost extent, I would have paid money in fines, and gotten a couple of misdemeanors on my record. That's why I think it's so ridiculous that they tried to hit me with a bunch on nonsense that wouldn't stick.

 

Speaking from experience, having had one of my cars stolen recently, I can say that your intentions really don't factor into it. It didn't matter to me WHY my car was taken, only that it was gone. I spent a good five years of my life building that car, replacing and improving parts, doing research, building custom parts, sourcing hard-to-find stuff from places like Japan, Australia, Belgium, and the UK, only to have some douchebag take it because they felt like a joyride. And what almost pisses me off most is that, when it was recovered, they didn't really take much - but they sure fucked up a lot of other stuff in the process, a good chunk of which I can't easily replace.

 

So, if I'd had the chance, would I have shot them? Hard to say. My "typical" imaginary car-theft scenario involves me using the Saiga (7.62x39) to put a couple rounds straight into the engine block to immediately immobilize the car. (Don't worry; I've got spare engines - those are probably the easiest part of the build!) Then, if they had another car with them or following them, putting a few into its engine, so we can firmly establish that they're not going anywhere anytime soon. But in the heat of the moment, would I aim for "center mass" on the car, or the person stealing it? Hard to say...

 

Legally, I'd be within my rights. Texas still has some pretty lax laws on deadly force, even when it comes to protecting property. Hell, one statute even says you can use deadly force on a simple vandal, but blowing away someone for "tagging" my mailbox seems a bit extreme.

 

Like I said, you got lucky. It could've been a lot worse for you.

 

Mike

 

Hey man, at least you understand that blowing someone away for simple vandalism is excessive. While it would certainly feel good, I can honestly say that it's not the answer. I'm sorry about your car, I had one stolen a while back, but as you know it's not the end of the world. Infuriating...yes. What it does to your sense of security...indescribable. Not having a car for a few days (if you don't have full coverage)... complete inconvenience and maddening event. But would you want to kill someone over it? I wouldn't, unless I (or someone I care about) was in the car when they attempted to take it.

 

By legal definition, stealing is when you take something with the intent of making it your own.

If your penal code over there in Bama is similar to ours here, it's actually appropriating property with intent to deprive the owner... which you most certainly did. Driving off in someone elses construction equipment without their consent gets you a pavement snack realy damn quick.

 

Sorry D'oh. Alabamie hasn't picked up Texas legal statutes yet, which I think may be a good thing. We'd have people getting shot over property all the time. 89% or our county inmates are in on property theft.

 

 

The title of the thread is ......"You have the right to remain silent..., better use it!"

 

Hey EC, why don't you take that as a hint and STFU already....wink wink.

 

Wink, wink, you got a purdy mouth.

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

Edited June 4, 2008 by ClickClickD'oh

[shaneman153a 39]

On the flip side, a few month ago, a friend of mine and myself got drunk at the bar, walked out the back door at around 2AM, and saw a bobcat front end loader sitting in the alley. He says "I got a universal key for that thing," so of course I said "Let's take this baby for a spin." So we're driving this thing around downtown, and about 15 minutes later the cops were choking me out, and talking about how they were "going to ruin your lives over this shit." They ended up charging us with 1st degree theft of property, which in my opinion was totally overboard considering we didn't have any means to actually steal the thing, and it was pretty obvious we were just a couple of drunks out fucking around. I mean, I could see a disorderly conduct, or criminal mischief or something, but a felony charge was a bit exaggerated.

 

Interesting. I probably would have waited a few years before telling that story in this setting. How old are you?

 

I have a hypothetical 5th amendment question, and this isn't loaded at all, just want folks' opinions. Especially the Texans.

 

Situation: You wake up at 2:00am to the sound of your door being pounded on and attempts of opening. You grab your "flavor of the month" out of your nightstand/safe/hiding place and move to the door. The person continues to pound on the door and jiggling the doorknob, not saying anything. You know that it could be a person in distress, so you don't make swiss cheese out of the door, but you simply shout "Go away". After a brief pause, the pounding gets louder, you take up a good shooting stance and shout "If you don't stop, you're going to get shot!!". The door swings open with a kick, and in a split second you see a early twenties male with something black in his hand. So you mozambique him because you're such a great shot, turn on the lights, and there's a dead guy on the floor with a small crowbar in his hand. You call the cops, they arrive, and ask "So what happened?".

 

Do you reply "Let me call my lawyer"? You were legally within your right to shoot him, given your perception of the situation. In Texas, you were within your right by anyone's perspective. He had criminal intent, and a "weapon" capable of inflicting death or serious injury. Would it depend on the attitude of the cop?

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

Would it depend on the attitude of the cop?

It may, but the case you paint is pretty open and shut. The police will take a look at the scene and this is what they will come up with:

 

- (1) Person (ventilated) deceased w/ crowbar - not a resident of address

- (1) Door with visable signs of forced entry

- (1) Person w/ firearm - resident

 

It won't take very long at all to put that one together with or without your story.

 

Here's the twist on your question though. It's been my experience that people who actually were justified in using force in self defense don't shut up. They usually tell you sixteen different ways that "they can't believe..", "they tried to tell them...", "why did that stupid SOB have to.." It's all completely normal and part of the stress reaction. And yes, there are people who just completely clam up. There are lot's of different reactions to the high stress of a shooting, and an experienced officer will know that. And the site supervisor for a shooting investigation will be experienced.

 

Also remember, in Texas, it's going to go to the grand jury when you shoot someone. Now, that grand jury hearing might be all of ten minutes and consist of the DA walking in and telling them that under no circumstances is he going to pursue the case... but it could be a long drawn out affair.. no matter how open and shut the case appears to be.

[Azrial 1,091]

Well it certainly would have been theft in Georgia. There are very few folks that will not claim that their intent was to return an item of value, once they were caught. Frankly I doubt that the reason you skated was the officers failed to show your intent.

 

Either way, it would be great of you learned something from it and became a better man. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and hope that this is the case.

[SaltPeter 6]

The problem is, it doesn't sound like you did learn anything from that experience. In Florida, taking possession of something that isn't yours, even temporarily as a prank, is theft. If it has a combustion engine in it, it's motor vehicle theft. Driving a motor vehicle anywhere, not just on the street or other public property, under the influence, is DUI. Being that you were drunk at the time, you would've gotten charged with auto theft and DUI. Don't come to Florida with the way of thinking you've demonstrated so far, or you'll "come down for vacation and go home on probation." As a cop, I wouldn't see any reason to shoot you or beat you up based on just that, but you'd definitely get charged.

 

Back to the thread topic, I would say sometimes there is a time to talk to the police and sometimes there is a time to shut up if you're suspected of a crime. For example, just the other day I had to go question a guy I suspected of burglary. He knew the people who's home was burglarized, but hadn't been to the house for months before the burglary. They had just done yard work the day before the burglary but right after the house was burglarized, a bloody bandaid was found in the fenced-in yard (part of the crime scene). The blood in the DNA matched this guy's, and he has prior burglary convictions.

 

So I questioned the guy and he could've easily explained it away, to the point where I couldn't have charged him. He could've said, "yes, detective, that was my bandaid. I went to their house that day to visit, knocked on the door, but no one was home. I must've lost the bandaid while I was there." That would've put me in a position where I wouldn't be able to arrest the guy. Instead, the guy just said he didn't know what I was talking about and wanted a lawyer. Well, he went to jail. Now in court, he could still use the "just visiting my friends" excuse, because the bloody bandaid is all the evidence I have, but he still had to go to jail and deal with a $30,000 bond. Obviously, if he was innocent and was just visiting his friends and dropped the bandaid, don't you think he would've just blurted that out? He's guilty and couldn't think fast enough to explain why his bandaid was there.

[shaneman153a 39]

Also remember, in Texas, it's going to go to the grand jury when you shoot someone. Now, that grand jury hearing might be all of ten minutes and consist of the DA walking in and telling them that under no circumstances is he going to pursue the case... but it could be a long drawn out affair.. no matter how open and shut the case appears to be.

 

Can you expand on this? Maybe via PM, as I don't want to hijack. My CHL class did a pretty good job of explaining when you are within your right to shoot, but didn't explain what happens next. I also remember that in TX, if you are in your home and no charges are filed by the on-scene officer, you cannot be sued for liability. Am I understanding that correctly?

[elvis christ 451]

[ClickClickD'oh 1]

There was no intent to deprive the owner of his or her property, we didn't want the thing.

You drove off with it. You deprived the owner of his property. There's nothign in the law about you wanting the item, only depriving the owner of it. And unless you accidentally drove off with it you intentionally deprived the owner of his property.

 

 

 

That's why I keep saying I wouldn't have had a leg to stand on if I had been charged accordingly, something like unauthorized use, but because I made no effort to make the thing my property, in the eyes of the court it wasn't stealing.

Don't you mean, "in my eyes it wasn't stealing", because it's pretty clear that under the law of the state you live in you did commit a theft. Yes, yes, I know that you are going to say again that you had no intent to keep the item. Doesn't matter. Can you show me anywhere in the applicable law it says anything about intent to posses the item? It doesn't. It's not there. It says intent to deprive. And you did.

 

Why you aren't in jail for Theft First Degree I don't know. Maybe you cut a deal with the DA. Maybe he had bigger fish to fry at the time. Maybe the case is still pending trial. What ever it is, you did commit a theft under the laws of your state.

[nicklebon 27]

You've basically just said that you feel like it's okay to justify killing someone legally, over a piece of property ...

 

Anything, no matter how large or small, I own is more valuable than the low life PoS trying to steal it. You would do well to remember that the next time your drunk ass feels like being a thief.