.410 as a gun for my future wife, children

[stiletto raggio 20]

So I am thinking very hard about picking up one (or three) .410 Saigas. I would only use one, that that would be converted to a traingle-folder AK look-alike. The other two would be for my future wife and maybe even one for my kids to learn on.

 

Why? Well, I asked myself that, too. Here is the deal: I know I can handle a 12 gauge, but whoever it is I end up marrying may not be able to, at least not reliably and under stress. I would have ruled out the .410, but it turns out that the 3", 5 pellet 000 load is pretty damn serious. Consider that the 12 gauge 000 load holds only 8 or 10 pelletes and they are doing roughly the same velocity, and you've got a winner considering how much less a .410 recoils.

 

I have no interest in .410 slugs. A shotgun slug under 100 grains? Yeah, I will stick with a 7.62x39 and have higher capacity, more powe, greater accuracy and cheaper ammo.

 

Bridshot seems to be a bit more expensive than 12 gauge, but it at least serves a purpose for critter control.

 

Basically, the Surefire mags and 3" 000 load have me sold on it as a defensive gun for those of smaller stature. Am I missing anything?

[chevymann 13]

The 410 as a home defense weapon was brought up here awhile back and the review was fairly negative. I disagreed. The 410 was my first saiga and what brought me to this site. I purchased it just for what you described. My wife is a smaller frame chic that has shot rifles and pistols, but was a little shy with the 870 I had for home defense. The low recoil and 10 round mags made it an easy choice for her. It may not have the knockdown power that a 12 gauge or high caliber pistol has, but it also is less likely to over penetrate through walls or doors. I agree about the worthlessness of 410 slugs. I run buckshot in mine.

 

Also good for introducing kids to shotguns.

[stiletto raggio 20]

Also, I did teh math, and ballistically, each of those five 000 pellets is the equivalent of a very hot .32. A single 71 grain bullet at 12-1300 fps is nothing to scoff at, but five pellets hitting in a small area nearly simultaneously is at least as decisive as a very powerful handgun. 355 grains totaol weight at that velocity matches the momentum and KE of a .454 Casull. Add in multiple wound cavities and I don't see the room for argument. Again, this is the ONLY load I would consider for HD, but on the face of things, it seems pretty impressive.

 

The other things is that a lot of people say, "oh, get a 20 gauge." Fine. For hunting and clay birds, sure, but buckshot loads for the 20 are limited and expensive as hell, and from what I've read on these forums, a Saiga 20 doesn't shoot much (if any) softer than a 12. And did I mention that I can get Saiga .410s for $250 rather than $440 for the 20 and almost $600 for the 12?

Edited September 19, 2008 by stiletto raggio

[ML Roak 0]

I know this may not be the most popular stance, but a gun that your significant other is not able to use is nothing more than a door stop should she ever need it. If nothing else, a good 22 (say a 10-22 with 25 round mags) is better than a 12 gauge she cant use. I say ride on with the 410, I wouldn't want shot with one (and most inmates that I've spoken with whom have been shot say they don't care what kind of gun it is, THEY DON'T WANT SHOT BY ANY CALIBER ever again!). But I think that 25 22lrs would just about ruin your day too.

FWIW, my wife's "go to" gun is a Stevens 311 in 12ga with 18" tubes. For myself, I have a pair of Glocks handy, and any number of shotguns and rifles nearby if I have the time to get to them (the S-12 and my M1 Carbine are usually more ready to go than the rest) , speaking of M1 Carbines, damn fine little home defense guns they are, short, handy, light recoiling, 30 round mags, and plenty of cheap Wolf ammo around now. Stoke one mag with good JHP ammo for home use.

[turbo1889 1]

Previously posted in similar thread:

 

For any out there still doubting the ability of a S-410 to weild deadly force against a two legged critter I've got a photo for you:

 

Warning link below leads to graphic photo of dead guy with hole in head:

http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backissu/apr...esearch2_10.jpg

 

Reportably that's the entry hole for a 410 load of bird shot in very close quarters.

 

 

 

Edited with link to photo instead of just photo due to complaints.

[Psee 0]

The only drawback for kids using the 10 round surefire is the additional weight. My 12 year old grandson has problems keeping the gun steady with the 10 rounder.

 

I still keep my 4 rounders loaded for SD purposes not so much for the weight but for dependability.

[G O B 3,516]

I built an S-.410 UF for the wife, she is disabled, and we live in PeeGee Co. MD. Sorta like the wild west but meaner. The S-.410 with #4 buck or larger is a great HD choice for those who cannot handle the weight/recoil of a 12ga.

 

The .410 is 1/3 of a 12ga. 1/3 the bore area, 1/3 the throw weight, 1/3 the shot count,the SAME velocity. So 3 shots with a .410 = 1 shot with a 12ga. EXCEPT you get 3 chances to hit a vital organ. Allso the steel hull slugs are 95gr at 1400 FPS.

This is like 9MM++p not shabby and the longer platform is easier to aim under duress. I keep her Russian 10rd mags loaded with 4 #3 buck followed by 5 slugs. Stowed with an empty chamber and safety OFF. This way only gross motor skills are necessary. Rack bolt- pull trigger. Whatever you use for HD MUST be readily available, easy to use - no stupid gun locks or hard to find or operate safety levers. AND the recoil amd weight must be appropriate for the person using the weapon.

[RockHoundTX 10]

My wife much prefers the S-.410 to the S-12. It is lighter and slightly less recoil even using 3" slugs and buck-shot. I have multiple different rounds strategically dispersed in the mag with the knowledge that at a minimum she is going to double-tap and more than likely going to empty the mag (the NRA did a study a few years ago that in 200 cases in which a woman used a fire-arm for self defense, all 200 emptied the mag).

[Twinsen 86]

Everybody that says the .410 isn't good for self defense is planning on being attacked by dinosaurs wearing body armor.

[stiletto raggio 20]

I went out to the range today and, after playing with plenty of other toys, I tried some 3" 4 shot and 5 pellet 000 buck out of the only non-12 gauge I own, a single shot H&R topper. Granted, this is a 28", full choke barrel, but the thing patterned pretty well at 10 meters and was one ragged hole at 5. The bucj patterned about 4" across at 10 meters. I shot at a half-dozen hand-trown clays and broke 5 of them. Considering I have shot less than 50 rounds of .410 in my life, I was relatively impressed.

 

G O B--I am thinking of having Red Stick build me an underfolder. How is recoil on your wife's? I still want my one to wear either a solid or triangle folder. The last one I would likely leave in stock configuration for the time being.

 

Last but not least: You can buy factory mags for 15-20 bucks a piece. Is it worth picking up a few extras, or would I be better off spending that money on Surefires?