hugegator 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Here is what I've been up to. I got the Saiga Friday afternoon and had the FCG, pistol grip and buttstock installed by 11:30 Sat. morning so I could shoot it. Shoots like a dream. I put in the bullet guide Monday while I built the AMD pistol next to it in the pic. With the long barrel I think I'll change out the furniture to RPK stuff and get a Rusian bipod from K-Var. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 hugegator, Both look great. You got that done fast. Two questions. What did you use for handguard retainers, or how did you get them on and is the AMD long enough to be legal? Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 WOW! NICE job! That AMD build looks insanely sweet!!! That looks better than any krink build I have ever seen! Keeping the stock Saiga foregrip makes it look VERY sleek. The rifle conversion looks nice too, but DAMN! that pistol has got to be the most impressive build I have EVER seen on this site (no offence). You have my total respect and admiration on that. I want to ditto the same questions about the AMD that Wolverine posted. Legalities? Length? And did I mention....Nice job! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) Thanks for the compliments, I'll have some close-ups when I'm done doing the finish. I'm ordering RPK furniture for the Saiga so that will be pretty cool. As far as legalities of pistol builds, here is a quick explanation: The assault weapons ban explicitly mentioned that pistols could be no more than 50 ounces with a magazine outside the grip housing. With the expiration of the ban larger pistols with forward mags were again legal, i.e. AR-15 pistols, etc.. there is absolutely no provision in Section 922r for pistols, only rifles and shotguns are named. This allows a person to build with as many foreign parts as they want. The ATF's classification of a pistol is a weapon designed to be fired with one hand that cannot be made to accept a buttstock. The caveat here is to not use a front pistol grip as ATF regs state that a pistol with a forward grip other than the mag is an AOW. The easy way to make an AMD not accept a buttstock is to weld a plate over the back of the rear trunnion or weld a fill into the void where the folder attatches thereby legally making not a SBR. There a ton of threads on this on Gunsnet with links to the laws. As it stands there are manufacturers making and selling these so it must be good as the ATF needs samples from manufacturers before sales can proceed. This is my other pistol build Here is the collection, I built everything except the Saiga, three AMD 65's and an East German MPiKMS A few of us did this at a little party at my house in one day, I think we assembled about 25 receivers in 6 hours Edited January 20, 2005 by hugegator Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racerboy6996 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) I believe if the AMD is an actual "pistol" build he does not have to worry about length. At least that is what I have been reading on other forums. And I must add ---- VERY NICE build edit - hugegator was posting while i was. That other pistol build is AWESOME I wish we had those kind of parties around here. Unfortuantely I don't know anyone around here that is in to building their own rifles. My friends are waiting for me to get the tools & do a couple of my own so I can "teach" them. Edited January 20, 2005 by racerboy6996 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 I forgot about the H/G retainer. It is from a Bulgy 74 using the cut down the middle technique. I had to grind out the side rails and it doesn't fit entirely perfect but I'll do the cleanup when I install the RPK stuff. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Wolverine 10,360 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 hugegator, Thanks for the details. You have some cool looking stuff there. Clearly you have alot of equipment, knowledge and ability. One last question, Since it is a pistol I take it if your state law requires it you would have to register it like any other handgun, right? Wolverine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 My state law doesn't require handgun registration but I would assume that it would be wise to do so if required. On the other hand home built receivers built on kits are not recorded by anyone anywhere. It is up to the builder to do this. Home builds, if not for sale don't require a serial #. There is something very cool about a brown truck showing up at your house with everything you need to make an AK and no paperwork to fill out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
k_dawg 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Just becareful that you do not start with a reciever registered as a rifle to build your pistol, as that brings up a whole host of OTHER laws. Flats are definately the easiest/safest way around that ;-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) That is exactly what had me confused. A Saiga is numbered as a rifle. If you do the AMD build using the Saiga reciever, it would be illegal. Right? If I have a legally built AMD in Pennsylvania, technically I can carry it concieled?...lol..I am going to look into buying a few recievers for a similar project, Can you help me out with a few links? I am assuming that it is legal for me to form a flat reciever with my box and pan brake? And anybody else who might know something about the pistol build laws, we could use a little background on this. I never really looked into pistol laws because there arnt many in my state, I carried a semi-auto Skorpion a few times with a forward mag. It also had a top folding wire buttstock attachment. The Skorpion fits in very closely to the rifle/pistol build because it is layed out a little more similar. I guess I was commiting a felony, maby? I would love to be able to do this build. Nice work! <<<edit>>> I just read the ATF reg. Is the front handguard considered a grip? Edited January 20, 2005 by pistonring8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 A standard front handguard, as I recall, isn't a grip. What the ATF is looking for is a portruding grip. Here are a couple of links. We've beat the pistol build topic dead over there. http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.p...ht=Pistol+build http://www.gunsnet.net/forums/showthread.p...ht=Pistol+build Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racerboy6996 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 (edited) Another thing to remember about AK pistol building is to watch the caliber of ammo. I know 7.62x39 is ok, but i dont think the 5.45 is allowed. Edited January 20, 2005 by racerboy6996 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 dang, nice AK's. I've been trying to find some AK builders here in the state of Utah to get together a build party. I guess the best way to find them all would be in Gunsnet's BIY forum? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
racerboy6996 0 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 You could also try the gunsmith / build it yourself forums at http://www.akfiles.com/forums/ Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 20, 2005 Report Share Posted January 20, 2005 Hugegator, Thank you. I registered with that website and started to read over the threads. Your right, you guys did beat it to death. Thank you very much for the information. I cant wait to get started! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 If you can convert a Saiga you can build one from a kit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Quick apology to admins here, this'll be my last non-Saiga posting. Just thought everyone might like to see the new pistol all done. Sorry about the pics not being that great, the lighting in my kitchen sucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Very nice build. Your right about kit building. Looking over the threads, it looks like I could put together just about any configuration I could think of for about $250. There are so many different links to suppliers it makes me dizzy! The WOO reciever looks good on thier site because its already heat treated. Does it come with trunions and fcg too I wonder? I think that I may go with the coldsteel .065 and a tapco kit. That looks to be the cheapest and highest quality build available. Oh man, its like opening up the front door at Christmas time! I cant thank you enough for turning me on to the builders threads. Just when I thought I knew a little about inported gun laws, I need to learn a whole lot more about the laws on building them. As if I wasent excited enough about building an AK.... HA! I already have all the tools I need! Once again...THANKS! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 21, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 I did my 1st 2 builds with a hand drill, a dremel, a hammer, a couple of taps and files on an OOW receiver. AMD 65' using the Tapco extension, piston, G2 FCG and pistol grip with Tapco $59 mismatched # kits. Both cost a total of $430 combined and were screw builds. The new pistol is on an OOW and has $160 into it and is all rivetted. The other pistol (with wood handguards) was done on a Tapco flat, has rivets, bolts and welds and cost around $150 altogether. The MPiKMS is another bent blank done entirely with screws with a US pistol grip, G2 FCG and US slant break and ran around $220 total. For a 1st build I'd recomend using an OOW or Arsenal receiver as bending flats isn't fun unless you have a 12 ton press, a jig, a spot welder, a MAPP torch and a few other goodies. Getting started on screw builds with complete receivers is the simplest way to go. Take your time and do a lot of research before starting, take your time when building and always measure three times before doing any cutting or grinding. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 Thank you for the info. I am assuming that you prefer screw builds over welds? Any reason why everbody likes the OOW recievers? They seem to cost a little more than the other formed recievers I've been looking at. I will still have to adjust headspace on a complete reciever as opposed to an 80% right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dodgeturbointerceptor 1 Posted January 21, 2005 Report Share Posted January 21, 2005 damn. nice toys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hugegator 0 Posted January 22, 2005 Author Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 I don't prefer screw builds or weld builds anymore. The latest pistol is rivetted and is more factory than the other methods. All of my future builds will be rivetted, I'll probably take apart the ones I've done and rivet them too. Welding is for when you have no other option and screws are a good way to start. You don't have to press out the barrel with a screw build. If you have a 12 ton press to push out the barrel you might as well go all the way and do rivets. OOW's have there issues, like the selector hole not being in the perfect spot and you have to drill your own trunnion holes. Vulcans are cheaper but have a bad history of crappy heat treating. The new ones are supposed to be fixed and their holes are in the right spots. Arsenal is coming out with a new 1mm receiver that's supposed to be about as good as it gets in Feb.. Buying a matched # kit almost assures that headspace will be correct. The receiver has nothing to do with the headspace. The distance between the bolt face and the chamber is the head space and it is always a good thing to check on every build. I can't say that I'vre always done so, but then again, I've always been pretty lucky. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
pistonring8 1 Posted January 22, 2005 Report Share Posted January 22, 2005 Thank you for the information. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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