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Billyjobob

Saiga 12 Mag Adaption

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yeh well, a lot of the people on here i find feed right into it....im guessing you might have figured out my opinion on all of this by now. i dont think anything should be banned, just accounted for, thats all....hey im from new york, i like to argue, alright?

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actually flashhiders are illegal on postban anything, pinned and welded or not now if you check your laws.

 

For the love of all that is good and decent, WHERE IN THE WORLD DID YOU FIND THIS LAW?

 

The flash hider issue ONLY applies to SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLES with a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE. Find me a federal law that says otherwise and I will grovel at your feet for forgiveness. I'm waiting. Find me the damned law.

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Again this is one of the issues ive been bringing up in here. the laws are scattered all OVER the freaking place, and are double standards sometimes. unfortunately semi-automatic is semi-automatic. that can and is loosely translated to anything you squeeze the trigger and it fires, cycles the action, feeds a fresh round of whatever into the chamnber from any type of magazine. and a shotgun becomes a destructive device with that and the extra rounds in the magazine unfortunately on top of that all. a flashhider is illegal to install on anything. not muzzle break or compensator, but flash hider. i can see im going to have to go dig and dig and dig like a damn lawyer to defend what im bitching about here. damn laws are all over the place and cryptic enough that they can be termed to fit in various ways and situations. we need one simple set of them that is standard across the country so that there isnt all kinds of problems. something stipulated by population density or some crap like that. nothing major, just all of it nice and clear and simple in one freaking spot. ill do some digging, and post what i can gather up for ya'll so you can see what the heck im talking about. the law can be worded in such a way, that its up to each individual to interpret it. unfortunately, the gun laws seem to bear this trait now. :( i dont like it one bit....

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Even though I agree that a standard set of universal rules encompassing all of us would make things simpler, I (a KY resident) would get physically ill if suddenly forced to live under the rules placed on liberal states like NJ, NY, CA, DC, MD, etc.

 

Secondly, here is the definition of a semi-auto assault weapon which is illegal now to produce....straight from the BATF (although they are still up for interpretation)

 

Semiautomatic assault weapon. (a) Any of the firearms, or copies or

duplicates of the firearms in any caliber, known as:

(1) Norinco, Mitchell, and Poly Technologies Avtomat Kalashnikovs

(all models),

(2) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil,

(3) Beretta Ar70 (SC-70),

(4) Colt AR-15,

(5) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR, and FNC,

(6) SWD M-10, M-11, M-11/9, and M-12,

(7) Steyr AUG,

(8) INTRATEC TEC-9, TEC-DC9 and TEC-22, and

(9) Revolving cylinder shotguns, such as (or similar to) the Street

Sweeper and Striker 12;

(b ) A semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable

magazine and has at least 2 of--

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

 

[[Page 1140]]

 

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of

the weapon,

(3) A bayonet mount,

(4) A flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a

flash suppressor, and

(5) A grenade launcher;

© A semiautomatic pistol that has an ability to accept a

detachable magazine and has at least 2 of--

(1) An ammunition magazine that attaches to the pistol outside of

the pistol grip,

(2) A threaded barrel capable of accepting a barrel extender, flash

suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer,

(3) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely

encircles, the barrel and that permits the shooter to hold the firearm

with the nontrigger hand without being burned,

(4) A manufactured weight of 50 ounces or more when the pistol is

unloaded, and

(5) A semiautomatic version of an automatic firearm; and

(d) A semiautomatic shotgun that has at least 2 of--

(1) A folding or telescoping stock,

(2) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of

the weapon,

(3) A fixed magazine capacity in excess of 5 rounds, and

(4) An ability to accept a detachable magazine.

 

http://a257.g.akamaitech.net/7/257/2422/14...27cfr178.11.htm

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I wouldn't recommend "fixing" an un-broken mag. Remember, this mag was designed to hold five rounds. Alteration to the follower may result in improper feeding, stuck rounds, and, over time, a magazine spring that no longer "springs". Overcompression of the spring is not good--it results in premature failure. When you need that round to feed- it may not.

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Thank you, Ky Soldier! I want to give you a great big hug and bow in thanks to you for FINALLY posting an ACTUAL LAW. Bvamp, I can't stand this "yes it is" "no it isn't" crap. You see the law before you, right here. If you are saying there's a law against flash hiders on shotguns, pistols, or manually operated rifles, on the federal level, you ought to at least remember where you heard it. And Billy Bob Bubba in the boonies who can't read or remember worth a darn doesn't count.

 

There is so much crap out there that people make up to make life simpler for themselves, cause they can't remember details. They can follow whatever rles they want, but I'm sick of the uneducated trying to instruct the educated. Now I'm not calling those who disagree with me uneducated, I'm saying if you are you should remember where you learned it from.

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Don't get frustrated BattleRifle, Bvamp is talking out of his a$$ again. I've just gotten used to his nonsense ramblings and ignore his posts. I award him the A$$ Clown award for this forum - Awarded in excellence in not knowing what the hell he is talking about, making some BS comment, pissing people off, or just plain being an idiot. Yes Bvamp, lets submissively follow all the laws so they may make more till we are no longer able to own guns, what a genious idea. You should move to Britain.

"Don't get frustrated BattleRifle, Bvamp is talking out of his a$$ again. I've just gotten used to his nonsense ramblings and ignore his posts. I award him the A$$ Clown award for this forum"

 

Why don't we have a little emoticon of a troll over there? I can't believe this guy blatently admitted to trolling, and people are still feeding him.

 

I guess I can't really blame him for continuing to argue even after "coming out from under the troll bridge" because people are still willing to argue.

 

::shrug::

 

Anywho - "Lagomorph" - yes, I got a good laugh out of your user name. I was actually online looking for a certain kind of rabbit last nite when I was looking over.. someone's.. shoulder who was reading the board and decided I wanted to comment.

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is that better guys? and as you can see, from the simple version you posted Ky, the saiga falls into the borderline assualt weapons category. pretty plain and simple. actually the laws, here in NY, im not in a city myself so those laws dont apply to me thankfully, arent much different than those of most the other states. a little stricter with machine guns and pistols, but you can get them still.

Edited by Bvamp

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borderline assualt weapons category

 

Huh? What? Excuse me? Now there's a new category, of "borderline" assault weapons? Look, it's legal or it's not. Notice the FOUR LISTED FEATURES for a SEMI-AUTOMATIC SHOTGUN.

 

You're allowed one. One of them is a detachable mag. There you go with the Saiga. Do you see flash hider? Do you see bayonet lug? NO! Those are listed features for SEMI-AUTOMATIC RIFLES with a DETACHABLE MAGAZINE. NOT ANY OTHER SINGLE FREAKING GUN.

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I posted the law that I found through the ATF homepage; you all can certainly sift through them if you want....

 

http://www.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/cfrassem...gi?title=200227

 

It looks to me like BattleRifleG3 is on the money....you can have a detachable magazine, up to 10 rounds ("more than 10 rounds of ammunition" is considered a "large capacity ammunition feeding device") The 5rd limit only applies to "a fixed magazine" like a Benelli automatic shotgun. Like he said the bayonet lug and flash hider is still fair game for Saiga's since it is not mentioned as a restriction.

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So, why don't you two slap some ten rounders into your Saiga-12's then and parade them around in front of the ATF building? If nothing happens to the both of you, I'm sure the rest of us would be willing to pick up a few of those ten rounders too. :D

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Hey, Hey, Hey!!! Wait a minute! I was the one who pointed out the detachable mag idea! I should get the credit! And if I had some ten round magazines I would parade around in front of the ATF building an show them what I got! But I don't have any magazines that hold ten rounds... ...Yet. I'm gonna try to get the "hook-up" on the eight round mags thru a contact of my father. This guy I'm gonna talk to is a German Spec Ops person who does business with my father. He gets his hands on everything: MINIMIs, G36s, FN-P90s, special ammunition and magazines. He sent my dad some special ammo being tested in the new H&K MP7 prototype, some really wicked spoon-tip bullets, amazing stuff, collectors would kill for a single cartrige let alone a whole box. Any way I am gonna try for some 8 rnders. :haha:

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Lagomorph, are you familar with the concept of "SHARING" with your friends? If you are successful and willing, put me down for several as well as I am familar with the concept of "GRATITUDE". :rolleyes:

 

Billyjobob

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If you happen to run into Michael Jackson (after your eight rounder ATF incident), give him a good swift kick for me, okay? :D

 

BTW - (instead of bugging that German special forces guy for those eight rounders and other verboten gun related paraphenalia), why don't you just go ask Senator Dianne Feinstein if she has any extras lying around? :rolleyes:

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I'll be sure to give MJ a nice bootin but, I don't think it will compare to anything he'll get if he ends up going to "pound-me-in-the-a$$-prison," he deserves it though.

 

Dianne Feinstein eh? Not a bad idea, she and her goons must have some if she plans to try and push a new bill after 94' awb sets, she would have to have sample pieces to evaluate to add to the new awb list. But then again, I hate bringing politics into my life, especiallly when I have no money, and you know how money makes all the sway in politics. :unsure: Probably better to keep it on the down low for now. I take it you don't want any then? Magazines not politics. Its OK more for me! :rolleyes:

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Eww, you'd have to be pretty desperate (or in prison for a LOOONG time) to want to have any type of sex with Michael Jackson I think (last chance on death row with a paper bag in the pitch dark maybe?). Of course I'd probably feel the same way if I ran into Dianne Feinstein while in there too. :D

 

And yeah, those eight rounders sound interesting. Too bad you can't feed them thru the side (like a Sten) though because I find the five rounders bad enough for getting caught on your arm or in the loose folds of you clothes while mounting and dismounting the Saiga already. Besides, they probably would start requiring something like a LULA loader to get all eight in, and you probably would need a backpack & bipod (for shooting the darn thing) if you carried more than five of them fully loaded (unless you use them as flack vest panels). :)

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Wow, I leave for a few days and this gets way off topic. I surrender credit to Lagomorph on the mag idea. I too would not hide with an eight rounder since their is no law prohibiting it. And of course, if anyone here could find a dependable supply of them; they could really clean up on guys like us. I myself would rather have a better custom stock, but a bigger mag is great too! Bigger is better, it's the American way! (that and if you don't do what we say we overthrow your country, assassinate your leaders, install a puppet government, etc.....but that gets too far into my politics ;) )

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If you guys really want to have 8 round mags, then why don't you find a cop in your area, buddy up with him and convince him that it's not illegal for you to have them. Then he could buy you some. They are easy to get if you have police credentials.

 

As for me, I'm not so convinced, so don't ask.

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Wow, that was a fast reply...hope you don't think I'm going to go running down the street with it because I think I'm entitled or something...really not the case. I just don't see in the law where they are prohibited. But if they were legal, surely dealers would sell them. Its all so confusing. :wacko: The ATF was so inclusive in their writing that they fail to give examples of what they mean to control on shotguns. :blink:

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The ATF doesn't write the laws . . . we vote people in to do that- you know, do things in our best interest :angel: ! Unfortunately for us, most politicians are lawyers-- writing vague and ambiguous laws allows for broad interpretation. That's where we get in trouble. One LEO's idea of a law may be radically different from another when dealing with these unclear regulations. :cryss: That's where the lawyers make their money. Funny isn't it-- as much as we hate lawyers, they are the first one's we call to 'get us off.'

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Sounds like you're on to something Shooter1, that broad interpretation is also where we get alot of disagreement on this forum from what I've seen. Like BattleRifleG3 said a while back, we get alot of "yes you can, no you can't" responses with no real evidence.

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I guess nobody wants to be the "test dummy" who first tries to challenge these vague laws though, right? :unsure:

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by the way, i dont post here to quote laws and this or that. *I* know the laws. do you all? im not pasting a section to a law every sentance. read them and remember, this isnt school, court, or a business matter. its a forum on the net. ive read the laws enough myself, dont need to be posting every tiny little piece i refer to. if you want the legal explanation call the cops and ask them. here you can expect me at least to simplify MY personal knowledge to a simple YES or NO.

 

BVamp, please just shut the hell up. You can't write an intelligible sentence and you have NO credibility with your legal interpretations. Other than pissing people off, you accomplish nothing by your ravings. Spend your time instead working a job to earn some extra money for an education, a computer with spell check, creative writing courses, and anything else you can find to raise your level of social acceptability!

 

I have never seen anyone who is such a raving lunatic that takes such pride in being a troll and pissing people off. Get a real life dude and give this one up!

 

Billyjobob

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first get it right, a shotgun is a gauge not a caliber, hence why there are seperate laws, thats why you can do somethings to the saiga-12 you cant do to the saiga-410 and vice versa, and second off i dont want a pistol grip on it for spraying shells i want it because i want my gun to be they way it was supposed to be, as for owning guns i have 9 (one cost me $1200) and as for the whole militant stuff u spout, ill put money on it im way more dangerous with my hunting rifles from 700 yards away than any guy woith a shotgun could be and where i live a gun isnt just something u keep to look prettywe USE em all the time, a sks or ak is really nice to keep your aim up cheaply without spending $50 for a box of .300 weatherby mags i dont know anyone around here that dont have at least a few guns, i really do hope this is your last post cause i have taken a great disliking to you

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