Oblofusc 0 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 (edited) I wonder if it would be possible to develop a gas plug that had a spring loaded regulator built in that covered a hole in it, so that when a hot load was fired and extremely high pressure was in the gas chamber it would overcome the spring tension and vent just enough gas to make the action cycle within normal limits. And when you fired a weak field load the spring would not move because of the lower pressure, and the action would cycle at the same rate as with the hot load. I think there is that same type of gas system on some gun somewhere, but it escapes me now. If it worked reliably, that would eliminate the need to think to adjust the gas plug to the appropriate setting depending on ammo used. In the real world, people forget to do that all the time when switching from one ammo type to another. For now I am going to try the MD Arms adjustable gas plug. I am hoping it will allow me to cover the gas port a little more than the 1 setting on the stock plug covers it now, as I mostly shoot buck and slug, and it seems a little over-gassed. Edited February 16, 2009 by Oblofusc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 One of our members has already started a thread about a design he has for this. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=35549&st=0 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 Great minds think alike, huh? From what I can tell, the concept is entirely do-able. Obviously, some testing will be required to see how it works. I'll report something after a few of us have tested the prototypes. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 16, 2009 Report Share Posted February 16, 2009 you would need to know how much force is required to cycle the gun reliably. call this X then develop the port so that it only allows X amount of force into the gas chamber. hypothectical numbers Say the reciever mechanism needs 50 ftlbs to cycle back fast enough to eject but slow enough to allow the next shell in low brass generates 55 ft lbs *(many different #'s due to many different loads) high brass generates 85 ft lbs *(many different #'s due to many different loads) So for both to cycle with no knob change you would have to limit the gas to 50ft lbs on all loads. however if the proposed plug could restrict the 35 ft lbs from high brass to make it 50ftlbs then the low brass would not have enough umpfh as now it would only be giving 20 ft lbs. And if it allowed the low brass at 50 the high brass would still be 80, too hard. maybe I'm missing something, or over simplified it, maybe there is a range of pressures that work to reliably cycle say 40-60, and low brass types give 60-80 and get 70-100 for high brass. Thus the spring ball reduces 30 so you could use 70-80 lowbrass and 70-90 highbrass. If there is no overlap of workable(safe)presures then I don't think it would work. This would still leave some loads below or above the workable range and specific ammo would have to be specified. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure the design I have in mind would do that. It wouldn't restrict gas flow at all. It just opens when a preset limit is reached. I'm thinking that if the valve doesn't open until X psi, then the low brass loads wouldn't have any gas bled off. Conversely, the heavy rounds could easily exceed the preset limit. THAT'S when the regulator would bleed off the excess and keep enough pressure to let the gun function reliably, without beating the action to death. I hope my description makes sense. It's a regulator, not a restrictor. Corbin Edited February 17, 2009 by Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TheGlobule 1 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure the design I have in mind would do that. It wouldn't restrict gas flow at all. It just opens when a preset limit is reached. I'm thinking that if the valve doesn't open until X psi, then the low brass loads wouldn't have any gas bled off. Conversely, the heavy rounds could easily exceed the preset limit. THAT'S when the regulator would bleed off the excess and keep enough pressure to let the gun function reliably, without beating the action to death. I hope my description makes sense. It's a regulator, not a restrictor. Corbin I believe it would work as long as you can keep the valve closing properly even when dirty. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jacknast76 2 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 (edited) Ahhh I see what you mean. If the mechanism needs 50 ftlbs, then any gas load over this is vented. Makes sense. Actually this would be easy to make. A Pressure safety release valve like on compressed gas cylinders. Just need to find one for the right pressure and size it to fit. Edited February 17, 2009 by jacknast76 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 I actually already have such an idea, had it for awhile now, just haven't had time to make a prototype. There are a few guns that use a self-regulating system of varying types. It's based on one of those. The gun is rather long out of production now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TonyRumore 1,332 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 The M60 uses a gas system that bypasses (vents out) any excess gas after the piston moves a short distance and opens up a bypass hole(s). It works OK, but if you cut the barrel way back and don't have enough gas to pull a long belt off the ground, you can't open up the port in the barrel to help it out. With the short barrel, no matter how large you drill the gas port, the bolt will still short cycle as it bypasses gas after the piston starts to move a short distance. Tony Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfixr 76 Posted February 17, 2009 Report Share Posted February 17, 2009 That wasn't my idea for this gun. From my observation, the gas plug adjusts the amount of gas that hits the piston, and to some extent, the amount of pressure also. Therefore, a bleed off wouldn't directly affect the system except to bleed the pressure off after it has done the job. More pressure from a heavier loaded round would still beat the gun up. I'm supposing that the M-60 uses a long piston system, as opposed to the short piston system used by the S12. In a long piston system, pressure will continue to accelerate the piston until the bullet leaves the barrel, so the bleed off hole relieves that pressure earlier, keeping the system from being overworked. A pressure bleed off that is set to relieve anything over what is required to operate the system would work correctly. The only problem is the wadding debris and other crap possibly clogging the valve and sticking it open, rendering the gun a single shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
CME 0 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
dtromblee 0 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 CME, I hope you come through. I will purchase one upfront. Another vendor offering gas plugs would do wonders for customer service. DT Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 Pretty cool. I'd really like to see a regulator made. Whether it's done by CME or Tromix or whoever. Here's my latest idea for it: Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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