RangerM9 1 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 West Allis man not guilty in open carry gun case By Linda Spice of the Journal Sentinel Posted: Feb. 17, 2009 12:26 p.m. A West Allis municipal judge today ruled in favor of a local man arrested for disorderly conduct after a neighbor complained that he was carrying a gun while planting a tree. Judge Paul Murphy found Brad Krause not guilty of disorderly conduct in a case that drew to a hearing numerous gun rights advocates to witness what may be the first open carry gun case heard in a Wisconsin courtroom. For Krause, however, the significance of the case extended beyond gun rights: It was an infringement on civil liberties, he said after today's decision. "The reason people are upset about this is it's not about guns. It's about civil liberties. And we obviously have a property issue. There was no warrant issued, no exigent circumstances, no permission to enter the property, yet the police stormed in with guns drawn and put my life at risk," Krause said. "My wife was very worried that she would be a widow in short order because I was planting a tree." West Allis police responded to Krause's home last August after a neighbor called to ask about the legality of him openly carrying a gun in a holster on his property. Police responded, arrested Krause and ticketed him for disorderly conduct, an offense he and his attorney, Steven Cain, fought during a court trial in December. Police also seized his gun. Cain said today, "The big overarching issue is whether open carry is legal. The law in Wisconsin really only limits concealed carry. The law in Wisconsin, as we see it, is that open carry is absolutely legal, protected, and should be." Cain argued that the U.S. Supreme Court last summer in the case of D.C. vs. Heller concluded that open carry is "an individual right that shouldn't be abridged by law enforcement. That's what the case is generally all about." In explaining why he was carrying a gun while planting a tree, Krause said, "There's no requirement to justify why you're able to exercise constitutional rights. I and everyone else are able to go to church, they're able to vote, they're able to speak their mind. Even though the city might not like it, we have that right." The case is also one that has been watched closely around the country, particularly by the co-founders of the Virginia-based OpenCarry.org, John Pierce and Mike Stollenwerk. Said Pierce: "Really, the larger issue is not even a gun rights issue. It's the issue of having a disorderly conduct statute that is a catchall statute for otherwise legal behavior." __________________ I lived in West Allis (milwaukee suburb) for about 6 years until i met my wife. Thank god there are a few good judges out there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 (edited) they talk about thier defense, but not if the court ruled in thier favor right? Am i missing something? Edited February 18, 2009 by Nailbomb Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 they talk about thier defense, but not if the court ruled in thier favor right? Am i missing something? He was found not guilty of disorderly conduct, that never occured. The cops violated his civil rights and the city should be sued. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DogMan 2,343 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 I hope this has repercussions in other states. This whole case is just typical of just about every open carry "incident" I've heard about. 1. Someone decides to open carry for whatever reason they feel like which is perfectly legal. 2. Someone sees gun peacefully resting in holster and has panic attack, calls cops. 3. Cops take information from caller which would certainly include the fact that he is simply "wearing" a gun (legal) and not threatening anybody. 4. Instead of merely informing caller that this is perfectly legal cops push the issue by responding to a non-incident to see if they can create one. 5. Cops have brainstorming session to see if they can come up with a bogus charge (in this case "disorderly conduct" ) and man goes to jail. Sometimes the person goes to jail and sometimes he doesn't but the point is that they should not even be showing up. Whats ironic is that everyone in this case was "disorderly" except the citizen wearing the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Racer 27 37 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 West Allis man not guilty in open carry gun case A West Allis municipal judge today ruled in favor of a local man arrested for disorderly conduct after a neighbor complained that he was carrying a gun while planting a tree. West Allis police responded to Krause's home last August after a neighbor called to ask about the legality of him openly carrying a gun in a holster on his property. If we had concealed carry nobody would see the weapon, scratch that, the defensive tool. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 The police overreacted here. I can see no justification for the arrest of a man on his own property engaged in gardening, no matter if he does choose to be armed to the teeth. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted February 18, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 West Allis man not guilty in open carry gun case A West Allis municipal judge today ruled in favor of a local man arrested for disorderly conduct after a neighbor complained that he was carrying a gun while planting a tree. West Allis police responded to Krause's home last August after a neighbor called to ask about the legality of him openly carrying a gun in a holster on his property. If we had concealed carry nobody would see the weapon, scratch that, the defensive tool. agreed, but maybe this will help make the point about concealed carry. if i can legally open carry, and they can do nothing about it so long as i threaten no one, i can go anywhere, armed to the teeth. At least you know i have a gun and can avoid me. is concealed any more dangerous?....would start less shit that is for sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kyhelo 5 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 The police overreacted here. I can see no justification for the arrest of a man on his own property engaged in gardening, no matter if he does choose to be armed to the teeth. +1 here. However, I'm all for being inconspicous, desire no attention at all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunman1 1,753 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 West Allis man not guilty in open carry gun case A West Allis municipal judge today ruled in favor of a local man arrested for disorderly conduct after a neighbor complained that he was carrying a gun while planting a tree. West Allis police responded to Krause's home last August after a neighbor called to ask about the legality of him openly carrying a gun in a holster on his property. If we had concealed carry nobody would see the weapon, scratch that, the defensive tool. agreed, but maybe this will help make the point about concealed carry. if i can legally open carry, and they can do nothing about it so long as i threaten no one, i can go anywhere, armed to the teeth. At least you know i have a gun and can avoid me. is concealed any more dangerous?....would start less shit that is for sure. There is more to this than the average person realizes, perhaps even the guy that was charged and found"Not Guilty". He will now have to go through a criminal record expungement process which HE will have to pay for, if he has a shitbag lawyer he could be screwed. I didn't pull this out of butt, I just went through it and there are no guarantees of winning such a case. When I purchased my S20 I was at first denyed, I found out that a case which had been dismissed five years before was showing in the court as guilty and I had to then send the state police documentation that it had been dismissed. I had to pay a couple hundred in filing and other fees plus hire a lawyer for another grand. Everyon knew it was wrong but the states attourney still tried to keep me with a criminal record, the judge did rule in my favor and ordered the state police to expunge it and seal all court records, but what a bitch. I talked to a city cop on Monday about open carry in this city and he kept giving the same canned response, you have the costitutional right to openly carry a firearm any where in the state except privet and state property that is otherwise posted. He told me that if he saw me with a gun on my side he would evaluate the situation and may stop me and ask for ID, if no problems such as warrents or convicted fellon, I'd then be on my way. He also said that it isn't the gun he can see that bothers him, but the ones he can't see. He then said he thought it more wise to have a CCL and keep the gun out of sight, like his wife does. The state of Virginia has legislated that localites cannot make ordinance over federal law. The city I live in is having problems with law suits over open carry and the way cops are or are not dealing with it. I agree that concealed is better in alott of ways and it's fairly easy to to obtain a permit here, I'm in the process of getting mine right now. If this guy sues the city, the cops might not be so zellous next time, Gov. needs to be kept in their place and it's up to us to help them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted February 18, 2009 Report Share Posted February 18, 2009 "is concealed any more dangerous?....would start less shit that is for sure." Oh well, RM9..........you live in Wisconsin.........You're not going to have to worry about any of that concealed carry business living there............ Gotta be great not having to worry that perfectly legal model citizens will be carrying nasty old guns around under their coats.................. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RangerM9 1 Posted February 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 "is concealed any more dangerous?....would start less shit that is for sure." Oh well, RM9..........you live in Wisconsin.........You're not going to have to worry about any of that concealed carry business living there............ Gotta be great not having to worry that perfectly legal model citizens will be carrying nasty old guns around under their coats.................. where the hell is the middle finger emoticon?!?!??!? you suck Jeaux....you're right..... but you still suck for rubbing it in..... the best i can hope for up here is not getting arrested for open carry. Of course with Doyle proposing all sorts of new taxes and suggesting that we install toll booths on the highways....he will be getting recalled or voted out shortly......gimme a non liberal in there and we can get it. Looks like IL may cave and leave WI standing as the last state without CCW. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
joelrod47 373 Posted February 21, 2009 Report Share Posted February 21, 2009 There's a bunch of Wisconsin politicians that need to be booted out and sent down to join the FIBs.......... I can't believe its gone on this long.......How many years is it now that its been repeatedly brought up (Steinbrenner) and either voted down by one vote (Steinbrenner) at the last second, or vetoed by Doyle?? Jeeeeeezzzzzzzzz......... I really do feel for you up there......Wisconsin is a great place, but y'all have to quit electing those Daly Wanna-Be's !!!! The last hold-out after Illinois ???? Give me a break !! Wisconsin people are better than that. Maybe this year?????? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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