macbeau 902 Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 I was just wondering if anyone has any experience with trying to convert a SIG PE57 mag to work in a .308 Saiga. I am sure it would need some modification, but it has a front and rear lug (similar to a Saiga) and has the taper at the front of the mag (also like a Saiga). DSA has them but I just wanted to know if anybody has tried this already or if someone see's some obvious reason why they wouldn't work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Here is a view from the top. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 The only thing I see is you need a bit off the front, like this: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
txn 0 Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 (edited) it looks like you will also need to build up the feedramp bump on the front of the mag after you cut it, but yeah, I think that wuold be an easy mod. How much are they? ETA: Ouch, $50 Edited February 11, 2005 by txn Quote Link to post Share on other sites
lollygagger 1 Posted February 11, 2005 Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 How much are they? ETA: Ouch, $50 Yeah. Otherwise, it looks possible...just too much for a mag to hack! Lollygagger Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted February 11, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2005 Yeah, $50.00 for a mag you know will require lots of cuttin' & welding to maybe work and will not be returnable. I know they're steep; I was just looking to see if I could find a reasonable candidate for conversion (rather than the usual M-14, H&K/CETME, FAL, Galil mags which present their own problems in conversion). I figured I might get one and see if the mods went okay and then see about doing another one or three. I'm guessing that at 24 rds each, I wouldn't need too many. At least they're cheaper than SIG AMT mags - $80.00 EACH! The only possible issue I foresee, aside from the obvious mods needed, is the front to back length. Hard to tell without actually handling one and trying it in the receiver, and that's the $50.00 question, but these mags are made for 7.5 Swiss which is somewhat longer than .308 WIN. (apparently they also work with .308 in the SIG AMT). Since space is at a premium in the .308 Saiga mag well, the mag body may be too long from the front lug to the back. Just wondering if anybody had tried these yet. Hoping to save myself some heartache and possibly $50.00. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted February 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Soooo... This has been up all weekend and no new replies. I'm guessing nobody has tried converting a PE-57 mag to a Saiga? Looks like I get to be the first to try something new for once. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted February 14, 2005 Report Share Posted February 14, 2005 Spend that 50 bucks in the name of SCIENCE! LOL GOOD LUCK!!! keep us posted! Who knows... you might hit a winner and it turns out to be an EASY mod... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted May 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted May 13, 2005 Ok - I've decided to take the leap 'o faith and ordered a PE-57 mag to see if I can make it work. I'll let ya'll know if it works out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
uzitiger 193 Posted June 5, 2005 Report Share Posted June 5, 2005 From tha magazines I saw for the .308 the most likely candidates for conversion are the M-14 mags and the less expensive FN FAL mags. Both magazines will need a new or modified follower. These two magazines have the same front profile; narrower in front as the Saiga. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 Success! Well, somewhat... I have posted on my blog about my endeavors to make a PE57 mag work. Some of the pics are too big and the posts are in reverse order, but it's all there. I have decided to go ahead and get BattleRifleG3's mag adaptor and sell this mag. The mag fits, but it needs a feed ramp / bullet guide to work. The mod thus far was very easy. If interested, let me know. I have about $50.00 in it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 (edited) Here's what it looks like: 24 rounder... Edited July 12, 2005 by macbeau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BattleRifleG3 16 Posted July 12, 2005 Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 That's pretty dang sweet! I found that there's a very thin line between a feedramp that will work and a feed ramp that will block the third lug on the bolt. The S-308 mag has its own feedramp built in. Part of the huge innovation that is the Saiga-308. BTW, your adaptor is moving along well... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2005 BTW, your adaptor is moving along well... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> JIHAD! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 Is that a Krink receiver cover/sight you have on there? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 The receiver cover is from Vulcan Armament. The pic on their web sight only shows the sight not mounted onto a cover, but I got it with it already attached (welded). Here's a better (albeit somewhat fuzzy) picture of mine: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dieseler 0 Posted July 13, 2005 Report Share Posted July 13, 2005 The receiver cover is from Vulcan Armament. The pic on their web sight only shows the sight not mounted onto a cover, but I got it with it already attached (welded).Here's a better (albeit somewhat fuzzy) picture of mine: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nice work with the mag I had been wanting one of the rear sights, but $99 is more than I'm going to spend for an iron sight. Especially when reddots are only $40 more. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RooK 0 Posted July 14, 2005 Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 How's the sight picture with the rear sight base? Hold it's zero? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 The Vulcan sight works great. I like the longer sight radius (~9" longer), the AR-style, flip-up apature and the windage adjustment. My only complaint with it is that the windage knob is not click set (tight, but doesn't "click" into place) and is subject to being accidentially knocked out of zero. Also, I had to either remove the "bump" from the stock recoil spring guide button, enlarge the top cover hole or change to a standard AK guide rod. I went with the later. The hole in the Vulcan cover is too small for the Saiga guide rod w/ the "bump" on it. I had to remove the stock rear sight too. The new Vulcan rear and the factory sight co-witness on the front post; so long as the Vulcan's windage is centered. I wanted to have windage adjustments so I removed the mid-sight. The "ears" on the Saiga rear sight base are obvious, but they don't interfer with the sight picture. The one thing I do have to do is cover the hole in the rear sight base that use to have the rear sight and rear sight spring to cover it. I plan to weld (perhaps drill and tap) the sight spring and (permenantly) secure it inside the rear sight base. Once that's done, I'll probably grind the rear sight base "ears" down to make it less noticable in the sight picture. The sight holds zero about as well as my Galil does which is pretty good. In the 17 years that I have owned my Galil, I have only had to adjust my sights three times; when I first bought it, when I swapped out the front sight base, and when I went from Winchester to Wolf ammo. With the spring guide providing constant tension against the cover, I haven't noticed any shift in zero when removing and replacing the cover. The Saiga groups 'em about 1.5" - 2" (w/ Portugese) with a +1.5 zero at 100m. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 [...but $99 is more than I'm going to spend for an iron sight. Especially when reddots are only $40 more.] Does that count a mount too? I know decent mounts start at about $75 and go up. If Ultimak ever comes out with their gas tube mount, it'll probably go for around $100 by itself. I'm not trying to knock optics, but first and foremost, I want a sighting system that doesn't rely on batteries or use glass. Optics are fine for a lot of things (3-Gun, hunting, etc), but a good BUIS is a "must-have" in my book. That said, once I get the basic set up of this rifle like I want, I'll probably get an Ultimak tube and a Trijicon reflex II (w/ QD mount) for it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2005 (edited) For those who are interested, here are the links to the pictures and commentary I posted on my blog about my work in making the PE57 mag fit. Notice - I didn't say "work". I have posted other topics since I posted about this project and I don't want to bother people with pouring through my ramblings to find the pics. They are in order (top to bottom) from start to where I am now. The Begining The Conversion (Rifle) The PE57 Mag The PE57 Mag cont. Let the chopping begin Let the chopping begin II It Fits! So far, So good I Like It! Uh-oh... Hmmmm... Saiga & Family Braker, Braker I have a dream... Enjoy. Edited July 14, 2005 by macbeau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Dieseler 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Price with intergal base... check out www.freedomoptics.com PK-AV is the one I was specifically refering to. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 15, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 (edited) I must be missing something. On www.freedomoptics.com, the least expensive red dot sights w/ AK mount I found were both $139 (PK-A, PK-AV), not $40. [UPDATE - Now I get it. I was, in fact, missing something - My reading glasses. I re-read your post, Diesler. You said "for $40 more". What I saw was "for $40". My appologies.] I suppose it's really apples & oranges. Sight selection truely is a matter of personal tastes. I know some folks prefer dot sights, some perfer irons. I like both but I insist on having a decent iron sight before I start shopping for an optic. Over on GunBroker, there is an auction for a complete HK91 rear sight. It's got a "buy it now" of just under $60. If you could attach it to your cover, that would make a dandy rear sight. I have seen several other Saigas that were so modified. Vulcan Armament also has THIS SIGHT FOR $60, But I am not sure where it mounts. However, If you'd prefer to have the stock sight and just go with an optic, thats cool too. www.freedomoptics.com is an interesting site. I had not seen it before. Thanks for posting it. Edited July 15, 2005 by macbeau Quote Link to post Share on other sites
txn 0 Posted July 15, 2005 Report Share Posted July 15, 2005 Yuri at freedom optics is a good guy to deal with. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klangblades 0 Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 i'm intrested in that mag. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
klangblades 0 Posted July 16, 2005 Report Share Posted July 16, 2005 I'm interested in that mag. Like If I knew exactly what you're asking for it, I could say I'll take it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
macbeau 902 Posted July 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 18, 2005 I have had a number of questions about my PE57 mag project so here is a little more detail on where I am now. The PE57 was chambered for 7.5 Swiss (7.5x55mm) which is close, but a tad longer than .308 Win (7.62.51mm). I took a gamble that the mag would be close enough to make fit and it does. It's tight, but it fits in the mag well of an unmodified Saiga-308 mag well. To get the PE mag to fit, I had to cut and grind down the origional steel locking lugs on the aluminium body (to almost flush with the mag body) beacuse they were a bit too wide and stuck out too far. Additionally, I also had to make the obvious cut on the top of the mag to clear the trunion and lower rail. The PE mag follower is black plastic and is currently unmodified. My plan was to make the PE57 mag fit into the mag well, then harvest the lugs off of a steel 5rd AK mag that I have and solder or JB weld them on (remember, I'm just experimenting). As it is now, the mag does lock in securly (without the AK lugs), but I am not sure how reliable this would be when fully loaded or under recoil. Also, since space is at such a premium on the chamber end of the mag well, and I can't really see how to fabricate a feed ramp be modifying either the mag front or the chamber, I have decided to halt this project and let somebody else take a swing at it. I'm sure it can be done, I just can't see the forrest for all the damn trees. I don't want to cut or grind on my trunion and if I am going to cut on my receiver at all, I plan on doing it for my BRG3 mag adaptor that I ordered. I am hoping to get about $25.00 +S&H for just the PE57 mag, $30 if you also want the 5rd AK mag to harvest the lugs off of. I'll entertain offers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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