reliability of reduced power action spring

[rightwingnut 0]

Would any of you If you run low recoil ammo in you gun in conjunction w/ a reduced power action spring (apparantly a 1911 spring) for defense/combat, assuming that the gun was well broke in & maybe polished in a few places etc?

[Moe Zambeak 53]

I installed a reduced recoil spring in one of my guns. I was having FTF and this did not help. It turned out my gun was over gassed. After installing a Gunfixer gas plug, all of my problems were solved. I cranked it down to the lowest gas setting and now it runs like a champ.

 

I think it would make a difference if you were having FTE, due to the gun was working too hard to push the bolt and carrier back.

 

The best thing to do is to post a little more information about the problems you are having so that people can help you diagnose what is going on with your gun.

 

I'm not too sure what the question was/is, so I hope my answer is a little less vague.

[TonyRumore 1,332]

I have standard OEM springs, lighter springs and heavier springs being made now. I will have them shortly.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

[corbin 621]

I'm running a reduced mainspring in my Saiga, and I have the reduced recoil spring that I can change out if I'm shooting really light loads. Just to be clear, the reduced mainspring I'm talking about is the hammer/trigger spring. The recoil spring is the one that pushes the carrier forward. I have both.

 

Since I mainly target shoot with lighter rounds anyway, I tend to leave the reduced recoil spring in unless I'm shooting slugs, at which point I'd put the heavier spring back in. I leave the lighter mainspring in all the time. I've never had a primer not go off from the reduced power spring. I'm not sure if that's what you're asking though.

 

I haven't had the inclination to fire slugs while using the lighter recoil spring. It seems to me that it would produce too much wear on the receiver that way. Even with the original spring and the Gnfixer plug on -1, it ejects the slug's casings about 8-10 feet away.

 

Having the original recoil spring shooting really light loads can sometimes produce FTE or FTF, especially if you're not shouldering it. Shooting from the hip or trying to bumpfire are both really good ways to get a jam with this setup, especially if the gun isn't polished up and broken in.

 

I have to say though, Gunfixer's gas plug takes care of a whole multitude of issues though.

 

 

Corbin

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Would any of you If you run low recoil ammo in you gun in conjunction w/ a reduced power action spring (apparantly a 1911 spring) for defense/combat, assuming that the gun was well broke in & maybe polished in a few places etc?

Defense/Combat

OK we've specific scenarios and ones that calls for max reliability and stopping power.

 

NO.

[rightwingnut 0]

I am not having any problems right now per say. i am just thinking about SBS'ing this gun & setting it to run reduced recoil tactical ammo, prolly federal PFC 9pellet. I do have gunfixer's plug on order.

 

 

I feel pretty confident that w/ the gas system set up correctly, the low recoil ammo will, assuming the gun & mags are otherwise GTG, poduce positive ejection.

 

Specifically I am wondering if the one or both of the reduced power action springs will always have the strength to positively chamber w/ loaded stick & drum mags? If I can set this gun up to run low recoil ammo I would prefer it.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I have standard OEM springs, lighter springs and heavier springs being made now. I will have them shortly.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

Really? even heavier than standard for those of us who might be a bit overgassed?

[Gunfixr 76]

You can get an 8" gun to run low-brass ammo, you just gotta be careful about resetting the plug for anything hotter.

[corbin 621]

Good to know. I assume you turn the plug to setting 3 and maybe use a lighter recoil spring? Maybe a reduced hammer/trigger spring too?

 

 

You can get an 8" gun to run low-brass ammo, you just gotta be careful about resetting the plug for anything hotter.

[pfmedic 8]

I have standard OEM springs, lighter springs and heavier springs being made now. I will have them shortly.

 

Tony Rumore

Tromix Corp

 

I love how Tony over at Tromix is always one step ahead of me, building and selling any part or accessory that I may need down the road.

[Crusader 64]

Has anyone been able to cycle winchester universal with this reduced power recoil spring?

[africamagical 5]

mine cycles winchester universal just fine, 3 port gun, 25% reduced hammer spring from CSS and gun fixer plug, thats it

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

Has anyone been able to cycle winchester universal with this reduced power recoil spring?

I've seen a couple of folks say that with one or both of the, Reduced Power Recoil & 25% Reduced Power Hammer springs, they reliably cycle Winchester Universal.

IIRC, one had did a polish job on his bolt too.

Edited June 22, 2009 by ChileRelleno

[corbin 621]

Mine has the reduced recoil spring, reduced mainspring , Gunfixer plug, polish job and feed ramp mod. It's a 4 hole setup. It will cycle the Winchester bulk ammo, BUT...... sometimes the front of the shells will catch on the barrel's extractor cutout, causing the plastic to bunch up a little. I think this has more to do with the thinner plastic of the shells than anything else, since Federal, Remington or the more expensive Winchester hasn't done this yet, no matter which mag or drum I use.

 

With the Winchester bulk ammo, I put the reduced recoil spring in and crank the gas plug to 2 or 3, depending on if I'm going to fire from the shoulder or from the hip (which I don't often do anymore). If I keep the original recoil spring in, I'd set the plug to 3 and just shoot from the shoulder. I pretty much always keep the reduced mainspring (hammer/trigger) in. I just swap out the recoil spring.

 

Only for the lightweight bulk rounds do I use the lighter spring and setting 3.

 

For reduced recoil buckshot or heavier small game loads, I use the lighter spring and keep the setting on 2.

 

For regular buckshot, I use the original spring and set it to 2 for most brands. I suppose I could keep the lighter spring and adjust the gas plug to a +1, but I haven't tried that yet.

 

For slugs, I have the original spring installed and use the +1 setting on Federal or Winchester. For Remington, I can turn it down to -1 and still get reliable cycling. I don't know why there's much difference in my gun between these, since the velocity is about the same, but that's how it works for me.

 

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

Corbin

[Crusader 64]

Mine has the reduced recoil spring, reduced mainspring , Gunfixer plug, polish job and feed ramp mod. It's a 4 hole setup. It will cycle the Winchester bulk ammo, BUT...... sometimes the front of the shells will catch on the barrel's extractor cutout, causing the plastic to bunch up a little. I think this has more to do with the thinner plastic of the shells than anything else, since Federal, Remington or the more expensive Winchester hasn't done this yet, no matter which mag or drum I use.

 

With the Winchester bulk ammo, I put the reduced recoil spring in and crank the gas plug to 2 or 3, depending on if I'm going to fire from the shoulder or from the hip (which I don't often do anymore). If I keep the original recoil spring in, I'd set the plug to 3 and just shoot from the shoulder. I pretty much always keep the reduced mainspring (hammer/trigger) in. I just swap out the recoil spring.

 

Only for the lightweight bulk rounds do I use the lighter spring and setting 3.

 

For reduced recoil buckshot or heavier small game loads, I use the lighter spring and keep the setting on 2.

 

For regular buckshot, I use the original spring and set it to 2 for most brands. I suppose I could keep the lighter spring and adjust the gas plug to a +1, but I haven't tried that yet.

 

For slugs, I have the original spring installed and use the +1 setting on Federal or Winchester. For Remington, I can turn it down to -1 and still get reliable cycling. I don't know why there's much difference in my gun between these, since the velocity is about the same, but that's how it works for me.

 

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

Corbin

Thanks, the detail of your response answered all my questions.

[rightwingnut 0]

Mine has the reduced recoil spring, reduced mainspring , Gunfixer plug, polish job and feed ramp mod. It's a 4 hole setup. It will cycle the Winchester bulk ammo, BUT...... sometimes the front of the shells will catch on the barrel's extractor cutout, causing the plastic to bunch up a little. I think this has more to do with the thinner plastic of the shells than anything else, since Federal, Remington or the more expensive Winchester hasn't done this yet, no matter which mag or drum I use.

 

With the Winchester bulk ammo, I put the reduced recoil spring in and crank the gas plug to 2 or 3, depending on if I'm going to fire from the shoulder or from the hip (which I don't often do anymore). If I keep the original recoil spring in, I'd set the plug to 3 and just shoot from the shoulder. I pretty much always keep the reduced mainspring (hammer/trigger) in. I just swap out the recoil spring.

 

Only for the lightweight bulk rounds do I use the lighter spring and setting 3.

 

For reduced recoil buckshot or heavier small game loads, I use the lighter spring and keep the setting on 2.

 

For regular buckshot, I use the original spring and set it to 2 for most brands. I suppose I could keep the lighter spring and adjust the gas plug to a +1, but I haven't tried that yet.

 

For slugs, I have the original spring installed and use the +1 setting on Federal or Winchester. For Remington, I can turn it down to -1 and still get reliable cycling. I don't know why there's much difference in my gun between these, since the velocity is about the same, but that's how it works for me.

 

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

Corbin

 

 

Wow, great post. I will save this thread to my computer for reference. But I guess the main thing is to try everything w/ the heavist spring & lowest gas setting first & incrimentally work to were you have positive cycling.

[Crusader 64]

Mine has the reduced recoil spring, reduced mainspring , Gunfixer plug, polish job and feed ramp mod. It's a 4 hole setup. It will cycle the Winchester bulk ammo, BUT...... sometimes the front of the shells will catch on the barrel's extractor cutout, causing the plastic to bunch up a little. I think this has more to do with the thinner plastic of the shells than anything else, since Federal, Remington or the more expensive Winchester hasn't done this yet, no matter which mag or drum I use.

 

With the Winchester bulk ammo, I put the reduced recoil spring in and crank the gas plug to 2 or 3, depending on if I'm going to fire from the shoulder or from the hip (which I don't often do anymore). If I keep the original recoil spring in, I'd set the plug to 3 and just shoot from the shoulder. I pretty much always keep the reduced mainspring (hammer/trigger) in. I just swap out the recoil spring.

 

Only for the lightweight bulk rounds do I use the lighter spring and setting 3.

 

For reduced recoil buckshot or heavier small game loads, I use the lighter spring and keep the setting on 2.

 

For regular buckshot, I use the original spring and set it to 2 for most brands. I suppose I could keep the lighter spring and adjust the gas plug to a +1, but I haven't tried that yet.

 

For slugs, I have the original spring installed and use the +1 setting on Federal or Winchester. For Remington, I can turn it down to -1 and still get reliable cycling. I don't know why there's much difference in my gun between these, since the velocity is about the same, but that's how it works for me.

 

 

I hope this helps.

 

 

 

 

Corbin

 

 

Wow, great post. I will save this thread to my computer for reference. But I guess the main thing is to try everything w/ the heavist spring & lowest gas setting first & incrimentally work to were you have positive cycling.

+1. Thats what I was thinking as well. Just like the Gunfixer plug, start with -1 and work your way back. If +3 does not work, then install the reduced power springs and start over from -1. Working your way up until you get a cycle.

[corbin 621]

I suppose I should mention that my Saiga is pretty well broken in and (in my estimation) is a little over gassed. Your results may differ a little. Oh, and I have a homemade buffer installed in mine too. It's made out of a thin piece of gel insole. It compresses down to almost nothing when the action is pulled back. I haven't had any issues with it yet, but again, your results may very.....especially if you try a buffer.

[Crusader 64]

I suppose I should mention that my Saiga is pretty well broken in and (in my estimation) is a little over gassed. Your results may differ a little. Oh, and I have a homemade buffer installed in mine too. It's made out of a thin piece of gel insole. It compresses down to almost nothing when the action is pulled back. I haven't had any issues with it yet, but again, your results may very.....especially if you try a buffer.

I plan to get a replacement recoil assembly and replace the springs with the reduced power ones. This will allow me to have a drop in replacement so that I can easily change out the springs at the range.

[rightwingnut 0]

I suppose I should mention that my Saiga is pretty well broken in and (in my estimation) is a little over gassed. Your results may differ a little. Oh, and I have a homemade buffer installed in mine too. It's made out of a thin piece of gel insole. It compresses down to almost nothing when the action is pulled back. I haven't had any issues with it yet, but again, your results may very.....especially if you try a buffer.

I plan to get a replacement recoil assembly and replace the springs with the reduced power ones. This will allow me to have a drop in replacement so that I can easily change out the springs at the range.

 

How can it be any easier to change the springs than it already is? There are two springs in the rod thingy, I thought you changed the front one, which come right off. Do you have to take out the back one instead?

[Azrial 1,091]

I hate to be a wet blanket here. If you are experienced with a shotgun by all means, do whatever you like.

 

But for most folks I would urge you to be extra careful when trying to use a 12 gauge semiautomatic shotgun with a 2 Lbs or less trigger!

[Crusader 64]

I suppose I should mention that my Saiga is pretty well broken in and (in my estimation) is a little over gassed. Your results may differ a little. Oh, and I have a homemade buffer installed in mine too. It's made out of a thin piece of gel insole. It compresses down to almost nothing when the action is pulled back. I haven't had any issues with it yet, but again, your results may very.....especially if you try a buffer.

I plan to get a replacement recoil assembly and replace the springs with the reduced power ones. This will allow me to have a drop in replacement so that I can easily change out the springs at the range.

 

How can it be any easier to change the springs than it already is? There are two springs in the rod thingy, I thought you changed the front one, which come right off. Do you have to take out the back one instead?

To change out spring #2, you have to drive out a pin while the spring is under tension. That is why I thing it would be good to just have a whole different assembly that is loaded with two light springs. This assembly could be swaped out in the field.

[Crusader 64]

I hate to be a wet blanket here. If you are experienced with a shotgun by all means, do whatever you like.

 

But for most folks I would urge you to be extra careful when trying to use a 12 gauge semiautomatic shotgun with a 2 Lbs or less trigger!

+1. Good safety point. The reduced power recoil springs should not effect trigger pull. I do have a 25% reduced power mainspring and definately see your point. I love that part, but now believe that it is only for the most experianced. It seems to only take thought waves to release the hammer with that spring. Trigger control is a must!!

[corbin 621]

As I mentioned, I've got both the reduced mainspring and the reduced recoil spring. I can see how a lighter trigger pull can be a safety issue for the untrained or inexperienced. At least the AK style trigger has a little bit of take up before let off. I suppose some of the comepetition guns might be set up with very little trigger movement, but most of the S-12s out there have a little bit longer trigger pull than that.

 

That being said, I was always trained that the safety is in between your ears, and not to place your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. While I imagine most folks would agree with that, many people don't always practice it. I've been guilty of that myself before, though I try to be pretty strict on trigger control and muzzle discipline.

 

If I can find a replacement recoil spring assembly, I would LOVE to just have a spare one to swap out for lighter or heavier loads. Until I find one though, I'm stuck swapping the front spring out. I've never had the need to swap out the rear spring yet. Even when shooting Win. bulk ammo, which I don't like to do anyway.

 

 

Corbin

[Crusader 64]

As I mentioned, I've got both the reduced mainspring and the reduced recoil spring. I can see how a lighter trigger pull can be a safety issue for the untrained or inexperienced. At least the AK style trigger has a little bit of take up before let off. I suppose some of the comepetition guns might be set up with very little trigger movement, but most of the S-12s out there have a little bit longer trigger pull than that.

 

That being said, I was always trained that the safety is in between your ears, and not to place your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. While I imagine most folks would agree with that, many people don't always practice it. I've been guilty of that myself before, though I try to be pretty strict on trigger control and muzzle discipline.

 

If I can find a replacement recoil spring assembly, I would LOVE to just have a spare one to swap out for lighter or heavier loads. Until I find one though, I'm stuck swapping the front spring out. I've never had the need to swap out the rear spring yet. Even when shooting Win. bulk ammo, which I don't like to do anyway.

 

 

Corbin

So the #1 and #2 reduced recoil spring that you can buy from CSS only replaces the front spring? What is the differance between the #1 and #2 from CSS?

[gpqueen 545]

As I mentioned, I've got both the reduced mainspring and the reduced recoil spring. I can see how a lighter trigger pull can be a safety issue for the untrained or inexperienced. At least the AK style trigger has a little bit of take up before let off. I suppose some of the comepetition guns might be set up with very little trigger movement, but most of the S-12s out there have a little bit longer trigger pull than that.

 

That being said, I was always trained that the safety is in between your ears, and not to place your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. While I imagine most folks would agree with that, many people don't always practice it. I've been guilty of that myself before, though I try to be pretty strict on trigger control and muzzle discipline.

 

If I can find a replacement recoil spring assembly, I would LOVE to just have a spare one to swap out for lighter or heavier loads. Until I find one though, I'm stuck swapping the front spring out. I've never had the need to swap out the rear spring yet. Even when shooting Win. bulk ammo, which I don't like to do anyway.

 

 

Corbin

So the #1 and #2 reduced recoil spring that you can buy from CSS only replaces the front spring? What is the differance between the #1 and #2 from CSS?

#1 is for normal 2 3/4" shells including low brass Walmart bulk packs.

#2 is for Light or Low Recoil marked 2 3/4" shells.

Greg

[Crusader 64]

As I mentioned, I've got both the reduced mainspring and the reduced recoil spring. I can see how a lighter trigger pull can be a safety issue for the untrained or inexperienced. At least the AK style trigger has a little bit of take up before let off. I suppose some of the comepetition guns might be set up with very little trigger movement, but most of the S-12s out there have a little bit longer trigger pull than that.

 

That being said, I was always trained that the safety is in between your ears, and not to place your finger on the trigger until you're ready to fire. While I imagine most folks would agree with that, many people don't always practice it. I've been guilty of that myself before, though I try to be pretty strict on trigger control and muzzle discipline.

 

If I can find a replacement recoil spring assembly, I would LOVE to just have a spare one to swap out for lighter or heavier loads. Until I find one though, I'm stuck swapping the front spring out. I've never had the need to swap out the rear spring yet. Even when shooting Win. bulk ammo, which I don't like to do anyway.

 

 

Corbin

So the #1 and #2 reduced recoil spring that you can buy from CSS only replaces the front spring? What is the differance between the #1 and #2 from CSS?

#1 is for normal 2 3/4" shells including low brass Walmart bulk packs.

#2 is for Light or Low Recoil marked 2 3/4" shells.

Greg

In either case, are you just swapping out the front spring?

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

In either case, are you just swapping out the front spring?

Correct.

[rightwingnut 0]

BTW, I took my guns to the range w/ some bulk pack ammo & the two reduced action springs. I had alot of success running the walmart federal valupack ammo. I can't remember all the exact gas setting/spring combinations that worked, but I was able to get both guns to run w/ all three springs on different gas settings. One gun had a gunfixer plug & the other had regular. I like the ideal of being able to run the gun w/ the reduced power springs on lower gas settings so it doens't get so dirty or hot.

 

I also was using some winchester EXPERT bird shot ammo & it also worked well on various spring/setting combinations.

 

My main test was to load up my MD drum w/ 20 rds & load on a open bolt & look for positive ejection. The drum seemed to work well though there was almost always a tendency for weak ejection on the first round, but I never had any failures w/ it except when running whichestor universal.

 

Now, there is not reason to get winchester universal ammo when walmart sells the federal 100 rd packs for the same price, but w/ the extra reduced power action spring & the highest gas setting & was actually able to get that ammo to run over 90% of the time w/ the drum. So, if you had to you could have some fun at the range w/ that ammo & your S12. But if they have the federal, get it. I believe i was able to run the federal ammo on gas setting 2 w/ the gun fixer plug w/ the extra reduced power spring, or maybe even +1.

 

I guess I got lucky b/c w/ my unpolished factory gun & get about the same performance as with my converted & polished gun, safe for some trouble /w the disconnector sticking.