BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 I finally got my new rifle out to the range today for its first run. We only had an hour before it was closing, so I only managed to put 76 rounds downrange. I was very impressed with the rifles overall feel and performance. These are truly great value rifles. Definite props go to the Vortex StrikeFire and UTG quickrelease side rail mount. Once I adjusted the rd, the results improved markedly, and it was really nice to be able to switch to the 2X magnifier that was included with the rd scope. The UTG rail didn't move at all. Also the recoil pad really made shooting the rifle very comfortable. Didn't feel more kicky than a .223 to me. Next trip I'll spend some time at the 50 yard line and get it good and zeroed before moving to the 100/200/300. I'm assuming that that is what most of you do, no? Also, are there any regulations on muzzle breaks (live in Ca.) that you guys know of? Fired mixture of Golden Bear and Brown Bear: Distance: 100 yards and pretty good headwind. 71 - Shots 61 - Confirmed at least hitting the target. Groups improved with rd. About 20 shots with irons. ============================================= The rifle and the results: The rifle: 7.62x39, Vortex StrikeFire RD, UTG quadrail, UTG side mount rail, SGM TACTICAL- RECOIL PAD, Surefire magazine Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 The UTG rail didn't move at all. Also the recoil pad really made shooting the rifle very comfortable. Didn't feel more kicky than a .223 to me. Next trip I'll spend some time at the 50 yard line and get it good and zeroed before moving to the 100/200/300. I'm assuming that that is what most of you do, no? Also, are there any regulations on muzzle breaks (live in Ca.) that you guys know of? Glad you liked the saiga. You obviously need a sight adjustment tool as your groupings are unacceptable. Start at 25 yards than move back. You may also want to purchase a laser bore sight, and do some pre-range zeroing work at home with the laser. Since you live in CA, I would convert the rifle using monsterman grips. Also, no offence, but in the "sportster" configuration the quad rail looks retarded. Also since you are using no accessories, it really only takes away from the performance of your rig. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
spraypaint 1 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 which ammo did you like better? the gold or brown? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 The UTG rail didn't move at all. Also the recoil pad really made shooting the rifle very comfortable. Didn't feel more kicky than a .223 to me. Next trip I'll spend some time at the 50 yard line and get it good and zeroed before moving to the 100/200/300. I'm assuming that that is what most of you do, no? Also, are there any regulations on muzzle breaks (live in Ca.) that you guys know of? Glad you liked the saiga. You obviously need a sight adjustment tool as your groupings are unacceptable. Start at 25 yards than move back. You may also want to purchase a laser bore sight, and do some pre-range zeroing work at home with the laser. Since you live in CA, I would convert the rifle using monsterman grips. Also, no offence, but in the "sportster" configuration the quad rail looks retarded. Also since you are using no accessories, it really only takes away from the performance of your rig. Yes, of course there is a lot to be desired about the groupings, but as I mentioned, it was basically right out of the box at 100 yards, unsighted. Next visit I'll be focusing on getting it adjusted proper, as you advised, starting at 25. If I had started at 25-50 yards I would completely agree with you that the groups are 'unacceptable', but given the conditions, wind, irons, unsighted, I was happy to hit the target at all. Thanks, but there is no way that I'm putting a monsterman grip on my rifle. Without being able to put my thumb through the back of the grip, I'd rather have the added stability of the stock handle instead of having the rifle just 'rest' in my hand. If it gave a real performance edge, I might jump on board, but I would need some convincing how NOT being able to get a wrap-around grip is beneficial. If I wanted a pistol grip, I would do a full conversion, which will likely happen anyway at some point, because I DO believe that it would add to the shooting characteristics of the weapon. Also, no offense, but I could honestly give a shit what people's personal opinions are about how the rifle 'looks'. I know that there are many who are VERY concerned about their rifle's appearance, and whatever floats their boat as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not looking at my weapon as a display piece. I want a system that I can rely on and that has versatility, period. The quad-rail holds my light (I take accessories off at the range unless they are part of the training), I think it adds to the ergonomics of the grip (using the pads on the bottom only, and resting my thumb in between the open picatinny on the left side), and it allows me to quickly switch my rd to the front of the rifle for a scout config, not to mention that I can add a bypod or whatever I need for the situation. What I really want in my system is options, which as I'm sure you know = adaptability, can equal survivability. Haha.. If you think it looks 'retarded' then all I can say is .. why? I'm not going to take it on a date and try to get it come home with me... I need it to work flawlessly, not fuck me If you want to open an aesthetics discussion , you're talking to the wrong guy my man. It was also only $85 bucks, vs. the Tapco setup (I think about $250+ if I remember right). I would have preferred the Tapco because it would allow me to co-witness, but funds for this are limited. Thanks for the input. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 which ammo did you like better? the gold or brown? I liked the Golden Bear better I suppose, but it's much more expensive. I just ran that through first to be nice to the rifle for the first time out. Brown seemed just fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 The UTG rail didn't move at all. Also the recoil pad really made shooting the rifle very comfortable. Didn't feel more kicky than a .223 to me. Next trip I'll spend some time at the 50 yard line and get it good and zeroed before moving to the 100/200/300. I'm assuming that that is what most of you do, no? Also, are there any regulations on muzzle breaks (live in Ca.) that you guys know of? Glad you liked the saiga. You obviously need a sight adjustment tool as your groupings are unacceptable. Start at 25 yards than move back. You may also want to purchase a laser bore sight, and do some pre-range zeroing work at home with the laser. Since you live in CA, I would convert the rifle using monsterman grips. Also, no offence, but in the "sportster" configuration the quad rail looks retarded. Also since you are using no accessories, it really only takes away from the performance of your rig. Yes, of course there is a lot to be desired about the groupings, but as I mentioned, it was basically right out of the box at 100 yards, unsighted. Next visit I'll be focusing on getting it adjusted proper, as you advised, starting at 25. If I had started at 25-50 yards I would completely agree with you that the groups are 'unacceptable', but given the conditions, wind, irons, unsighted, I was happy to hit the target at all. Thanks, but there is no way that I'm putting a monsterman grip on my rifle. Without being able to put my thumb through the back of the grip, I'd rather have the added stability of the stock handle instead of having the rifle just 'rest' in my hand. If it gave a real performance edge, I might jump on board, but I would need some convincing how NOT being able to get a wrap-around grip is beneficial. If I wanted a pistol grip, I would do a full conversion, which will likely happen anyway at some point, because I DO believe that it would add to the shooting characteristics of the weapon. Also, no offense, but I could honestly give a shit what people's personal opinions are about how the rifle 'looks'. I know that there are many who are VERY concerned about their rifle's appearance, and whatever floats their boat as far as I'm concerned, but I'm not looking at my weapon as a display piece. I want a system that I can rely on and that has versatility, period. The quad-rail holds my light (I take accessories off at the range unless they are part of the training), I think it adds to the ergonomics of the grip (using the pads on the bottom only, and resting my thumb in between the open picatinny on the left side), and it allows me to quickly switch my rd to the front of the rifle for a scout config, not to mention that I can add a bypod or whatever I need for the situation. What I really want in my system is options, which as I'm sure you know = adaptability, can equal survivability. Haha.. If you think it looks 'retarded' then all I can say is .. why? I'm not going to take it on a date and try to get it come home with me... I need it to work flawlessly, not fuck me If you want to open an aesthetics discussion , you're talking to the wrong guy my man. It was also only $85 bucks, vs. the Tapco setup (I think about $250+ if I remember right). I would have preferred the Tapco because it would allow me to co-witness, but funds for this are limited. Thanks for the input. Ahh cool, I thought california was one of those states that doesn't allow the full conversion. Thats your next step for sure! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 3, 2009 Report Share Posted July 3, 2009 (edited) ...I'm not going to take it on a date and try to get it come home with me... I need it to work flawlessly, not fuck me ... That is pure sig-line material right there. EDIT: I stole it. See below. Edited July 3, 2009 by 22_Shooter Quote Link to post Share on other sites
evi1joe 1 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I agree that looks don't matter, but I still think it looks like a damn nice (and affordable) scout rifle...though I still wouldn't fuck it (without wearing a Class IV condom). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
paprotective 362 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Also note the original poster said using a Red-Dot at 100 yards out the box... Buzz.. Its true though with irons or scope go with 25 yards which imitates 200 yards bullet drop on most .30 cals.. Then go to 100 yard and you will see tighter groups. I'd be glad to hit the paper too fresh out the box and excited... Congrats.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 I'm just wondering why you don't have that scope mounted on the top of your quad-rail.. Does it not easily work mounted in the "scout" position? I don't have any personal experience with Vortex scopes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 ...I'm not going to take it on a date and try to get it come home with me... I need it to work flawlessly, not fuck me ... That is pure sig-line material right there. EDIT: I stole it. See below. LOL... happy to oblige. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Slight correction. In my reply I said that I had been looking at the Tapco rails for co-witnessing.. this was not what I was looking at. It was the Ultimak rail and gas chamber, which I understand is low enough to allow co-witness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) I'm just wondering why you don't have that scope mounted on the top of your quad-rail.. Does it not easily work mounted in the "scout" position? I don't have any personal experience with Vortex scopes. Hey Post-A. Yes, very easy to mount it on the quad rail. Mounting it on the side rail was only because I had very limited time at the range, and I wanted to try to see if the side mount could hold zero with recoil etc., which it seemed to do. I definitely want to move it to a scout mount config as well and try that, but I had heard a lot about the UTG side mount and really wanted to test it (plus I bought it.. so I've gotta at least try it , and using the 2X is better with the side mount because it functions as a magnified scope and you can use one eye. The Vortex is the only rd that I have tried, but so far I would give it excellent marks. Very easy to adjust, good bright dot (11 brightness settings), quick target acquisition with full eye relief, and very nice to have the doubling feature included if you want slight magnification. For $150 bucks, I think it's a great choice. I know there are others that have at least started a review of the scope. If I thought I was more qualified to review it, I would, but someone with experience using many different models would be able to do it more justice (or trash it justifiably)... Hope your sale is going well btw. Edited July 4, 2009 by BuzzKillin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 4, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 Also note the original poster said using a Red-Dot at 100 yards out the box... Buzz.. Its true though with irons or scope go with 25 yards which imitates 200 yards bullet drop on most .30 cals.. Then go to 100 yard and you will see tighter groups. I'd be glad to hit the paper too fresh out the box and excited... Congrats.. Interesting.. sighting at 25 yards imitates 200 yard bullet drop. I can't quite intuitively get my mind around why that is. Time to read up a bit on that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted July 4, 2009 Report Share Posted July 4, 2009 try your optic out on the front rail, and shoot with both eyes open at multiple targets. and if you notice, on the rear sight elevation "ribs", if you pull the sight adjust all the way tword the butt of the weapon, the sight elevates to the "pointblank" position. this is what you should sight in at 25-30 yards with. it is right close to the 200 meter marker for height. Just one more little thing mr K thought of when he designed this weapon, quick access close range sighting without thinking. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 5, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 (edited) Thanks all for your comments. Ok, one potentially super-newb question, but I want to make 100% sure I'm not doing something stupid. You ARE supposed to move the rear site slider up to just before the number, right? So that it clicks in without covering the number line, right? I know this sounds stupid, but I have the ability to move the slider OVER the number line too and it does click into one of the ribs and covers the line. So, it looks like this: 300--- ---200 100--- (((())))) Not this: 300--- ---200 100(((()))) I just want to make 100% sure that my assumption is correct. Edited July 5, 2009 by BuzzKillin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
imarangemaster 315 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 Slider goes under (before) the number as you assumed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SOPMOD 254 Posted July 5, 2009 Report Share Posted July 5, 2009 ...I'm not going to take it on a date and try to get it come home with me... I need it to work flawlessly, not fuck me ... That is pure sig-line material right there. EDIT: I stole it. See below. That is friggin awesome!! This guy deserves some help.Let's get him into feedramp land ASAP Quote Link to post Share on other sites
coreyack 0 Posted July 6, 2009 Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 wasup...Buzzkill............I live in Ca as well....My saiga is converted....You can check out Calgun (cal gun forum site) for a Gun flow chart. This well help you make sure your rifle stays legal....Muzzle brakes are legal in Cal...I sport a fashhider/muzzle brake on mine....A fashhider is only legal on some convertions so check the Flow chart and be sure... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 (edited) Ok, range trip two... this time, again, pressed for time. About an hour to get on the lane make a couple of sight adjustments and get about 40 rounds off. Groups were better, BUT clearly high and to the right. Because of the time constraint, I could not get a target up on the 25 yard line for adjustments, so all shots were at 100 yards, and using irons. Again, (and please excuse the newb here), as I understand I should start at the 25, sight it in using the 200 meter or point blank setting, and then drop down to 100 for my 100 yard targets. Da? The large group on the top right is aimed using a front and rear support to minimize operator fluctuations. The hits closer to the center were from when I tried to adjust on the fly by aiming lower left on the target (for about 10 rounds) just to see if I was nuts or what, so the upper right group represents the main. If I had aimed even lower left on the target (almost bottom left), I suspect my hit would have been dead on. Here is the Target... Edited July 6, 2009 by BuzzKillin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BuzzKillin 21 Posted July 6, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2009 wasup...Buzzkill............I live in Ca as well....My saiga is converted....You can check out Calgun (cal gun forum site) for a Gun flow chart. This well help you make sure your rifle stays legal....Muzzle brakes are legal in Cal...I sport a fashhider/muzzle brake on mine....A fashhider is only legal on some convertions so check the Flow chart and be sure... Right on man, thanks. I'm already a member on Calguns. If/when I do my conversion, I'll definitely be using that forum as well to make sure I stay legal. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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