22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 So this letter seems to debunk the myth that simply inserting a magazine is considered "assembly". Myself, and some others (in the stickied thread up top) had thought inserting a magazine did constitute "assembly". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 (edited) Originally posted back in May with all correspondence. http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=40153&hl= Edited July 20, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 I should've known this wouldn't have passed by this forum without getting posted before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 So given the answer to #3, does that mean someone can buy a Saiga that is not 922® compliant, and be good? Example: Joe Schmo has an S12 that is not 922® compliant. He offers it up for sale. I buy it. I'm fine to own/possess said non-922®-compliant Saiga, simply because I'm not the one who "assembled" it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted July 20, 2009 Report Share Posted July 20, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 hehe, I love this guy. Some one should make him a mod, in charge of solely closing and editing dupe threads, he could clean up the mass of difficult to navigate f--kstacks on this forum in days. I swear he has a reference database built somewhere.. On topic, i would note that the question of magazine insertion (or specificly, replacement), while it was clearly asked, was not at all answered by UncleBATFEcker, and "replacing" a nuetered magazine with a full capacity magazine would be replacement of a compliant part with a non compliant part (based solely upon this letter) and would still constitute "assembly" My my, isnt the government fair and reasonable? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 21, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 My my, isnt the government fair and reasonable? I hear ya. I like how they make up laws and regulations that are damn near unenforceable. ATF: Your Saiga is not 922® compliant. Saiga owner: So? I bought it like this. Prove that I "assembled" it myself. ATF: <long hesitant pause> :throws bag of Black Tar heroin in Saiga owners bag: He's got drugs!!! Get Him!!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Reverendfranz 160 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 (edited) "Did you really think we want those laws observed?" said Dr. Ferris. "We want them to be broken. You'd better get it straight that it's not a bunch of boy scouts you're up against... We're after power and we mean it... There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws. Who wants a nation of law-abiding citizens? What's there in that for anyone? But just pass the kind of laws that can neither be observed nor enforced or objectively interpreted – and you create a nation of law-breakers – and then you cash in on guilt. Now that's the system, Mr. Reardon, that's the game, and once you understand it, you'll be much easier to deal with." -- Ayn Rand. They aren't meant to be enforced persay, they just come in handy when you really want to railroad someone, and have 1105 pages of Federal Regulations, and Tens of thousands of pages of Federal Law**, 1.8 million pages of federal case law, and countless inter and intra-agency memorandums and "interpretations", with which to find a way to do so. **I was going to insert the number of pages of permanent Federal Law, as included in the United States Code, but i got to volume 17, the start of the Federal Tax Code, and the Government Printing Office website took a dump on me, it seems even they cant handle the sheer size of it. I only got to volume 17, out of 50, less than 35% of the total, and only the first section of the 17,000 pages of tax law, and the total was already 24,756 pages. Edited July 21, 2009 by ReverendFranz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
akdog 3 Posted July 21, 2009 Report Share Posted July 21, 2009 So this letter seems to debunk the myth that simply inserting a magazine is considered "assembly". Myself, and some others (in the stickied thread up top) had thought inserting a magazine did constitute "assembly". The way they phrase it requires you to read between the lines. The letter implies that inserting a non 10 round saiga factory magazine would constitute assembling a different gun based on point number 2 relating to substitution part or parts. Quote: As long as none of the original parts are substituted with replacement or additional parts. Any magazine that was not approved in the import evaluation would be considered a substitute part. Technically, inserting any other magazine that was not already approved means "assembling" as far as they are concerned. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Stansplace 414 Posted July 22, 2009 Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted July 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted July 22, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1337cshacker 0 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 So this letter seems to debunk the myth that simply inserting a magazine is considered "assembly". Myself, and some others (in the stickied thread up top) had thought inserting a magazine did constitute "assembly". The way they phrase it requires you to read between the lines. The letter implies that inserting a non 10 round saiga factory magazine would constitute assembling a different gun based on point number 2 relating to substitution part or parts. Quote: As long as none of the original parts are substituted with replacement or additional parts. Any magazine that was not approved in the import evaluation would be considered a substitute part. Technically, inserting any other magazine that was not already approved means "assembling" as far as they are concerned. Does this mean you can have a stock saiga and throw in a import legal mag? Legally? I don't have the brain power to make this law jib jab out. Help me out man!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted August 19, 2009 Report Share Posted August 19, 2009 (edited) So this letter seems to debunk the myth that simply inserting a magazine is considered "assembly". Myself, and some others (in the stickied thread up top) had thought inserting a magazine did constitute "assembly". The way they phrase it requires you to read between the lines. The letter implies that inserting a non 10 round saiga factory magazine would constitute assembling a different gun based on point number 2 relating to substitution part or parts. Quote: As long as none of the original parts are substituted with replacement or additional parts. Any magazine that was not approved in the import evaluation would be considered a substitute part. Technically, inserting any other magazine that was not already approved means "assembling" as far as they are concerned. Does this mean you can have a stock saiga and throw in a import legal mag? Legally? I don't have the brain power to make this law jib jab out. Help me out man!! Hmmm, ☑ "Is the 10 rounder an original part?" ☑ "Am I replacing it with a non-Saiga-specific magazine that holds over 10 rounds?" Your answer is "NO" - just like it's always been. . . . and another thing, this letter only affects the person it was written to. IT IS NOT THE LAW - IT IS AN INTERPRETATION GIVEN TO A SINGLE INDIVIDUAL. Unless your name is , this is merely an item of interest (and late to the table, to boot). The actual law can be found by clicking here. Edited August 19, 2009 by nalioth Quote Link to post Share on other sites
1337cshacker 0 Posted August 20, 2009 Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 (edited) GOD FARKIN DANGIT. FREAKING RETARDED GOV ARTARDS. There is a special place for you all in the afterlife, and it's not heaven. ENJOY IT FASCIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111111111 //Goes to buy real AK's instead of saigas. Maybe a CZ too who knows. Thanks Nalioth! Edited August 20, 2009 by 1337cshacker Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted August 20, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2009 //Goes to buy real AK's instead of saigas. Saigas are "real" AK's, semi form, of course. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
N4KVE 14 Posted August 28, 2009 Report Share Posted August 28, 2009 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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