DLT 1,646 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 I want to leave my existing stock in place on my 20" 308 and simply add a pistol grip and move the trigger to the proper place (with new FCG). Can I do this without any issues? I don't plan on using any high cap mags. I just want a better trigger and grip of the rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Sure you can. Check out the picture threads for examples. I just hope your nickname is "Sasquatch", cuz the length of pull is gonna be huge with that arrangement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DLT 1,646 Posted August 17, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Why would the pull be any longer than normal with that arrangement. I basically want to convert my S308 to a pistol grip and relocate/replace the FCG with G2. Nothing else. I figure the current rear stock is not really so large that it would be uncomfortable to use in that configuration. I could install the Saiga Skeleton Stock, but that won't fix the horrible trigger on my rifle. The solution is to swap out the FCG with something better, but to do that, I need to move it forward and add the pistol grip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted August 17, 2009 Report Share Posted August 17, 2009 Why would the pull be any longer than normal with that arrangement. Because you'll be moving the trigger forward 2 inches. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bobotech 3 Posted August 18, 2009 Report Share Posted August 18, 2009 You can do what I did which is to cut off a couple of inches off the factory stock and put a recoil pad in its place if you want to be super cheap. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
john762 0 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I want to leave my existing stock in place on my 20" 308 and simply add a pistol grip and move the trigger to the proper place (with new FCG). CAN I DO THIS WITHOUT ANY ISSUES? I don't plan on using any high cap mags. I just want a better trigger and grip of the rifle. I've been under the impression that adding a "pistol-grip" will kick in 922r. If you're adding a USA made pistol-grip, you've only changed 3 foreign parts. On Saigas, I believe 4 foreign parts must be exchanged/eliminated for 922r. If I'm wrong, then someone will/should speak-up and set me/us straight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
elvis christ 451 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 A US pistol grip and G2 FCG would be 4 parts. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I've been under the impression that adding a "pistol-grip" will kick in 922r. If you're adding a USA made pistol-grip, you've only changed 3 foreign parts. On Saigas, I believe 4 foreign parts must be exchanged/eliminated for 922r. If I'm wrong, then someone will/should speak-up and set me/us straight. I've been setting this straight for a while now. If you keep your factory 10 round mag capacity, you can have "two evil features" on your imported rifle before 922r kicks in. Pistol grip and detachable "sporting capacity" (factory 10 rounder) magazine are the two. If you use a folding / collapsible stock - welcome to 922r-land. If you thread the muzzle, welcome to 922r-land. If you INSTALL a magazine with a capacity of 11 or more (aka a "non sporting" magazine) or make your rifle capable of accepting such a magazine (even if you only use milsurp 10 rounders in it) - welcome to 922r-land 922r compliance is required with a "non sporting magazine", no matter what your furniture looks like Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 (edited) I want to leave my existing stock in place on my 20" 308 and simply add a pistol grip and move the trigger to the proper place (with new FCG). CAN I DO THIS WITHOUT ANY ISSUES? I don't plan on using any high cap mags. I just want a better trigger and grip of the rifle. I've been under the impression that adding a "pistol-grip" will kick in 922r. If you're adding a USA made pistol-grip, you've only changed 3 foreign parts. On Saigas, I believe 4 foreign parts must be exchanged/eliminated for 922r. If I'm wrong, then someone will/should speak-up and set me/us straight. Welcome to the land of 922r confusion. FCG is 3 parts, see the stickies, the PG does not count as long as it is US made, so one more part is needed. Of course mags count as three, hi-cap is immaterial since 922r is already invoked by the PG. So US mag will make you legal. Cheapest part to change out may the the hand guard for about 40.00 for the infusion to use Saiga mag. Edited September 23, 2009 by Rhodes1968 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 23, 2009 Report Share Posted September 23, 2009 I want to leave my existing stock in place on my 20" 308 and simply add a pistol grip and move the trigger to the proper place (with new FCG). CAN I DO THIS WITHOUT ANY ISSUES? I don't plan on using any high cap mags. I just want a better trigger and grip of the rifle. I've been under the impression that adding a "pistol-grip" will kick in 922r. If you're adding a USA made pistol-grip, you've only changed 3 foreign parts. On Saigas, I believe 4 foreign parts must be exchanged/eliminated for 922r. If I'm wrong, then someone will/should speak-up and set me/us straight. It does kick 922r. FCG is 3 parts, see the stickies, the PG does not count as long as it is US made, so one more part is needed. Of course mags count as three, hi-cap is immaterial since 922r is already invoked by the PG. So US mag will make you legal. Cheapest part to change out may the the hand guard for about 40.00 for the infusion to use Saiga mag. If this is true, please explain the WASR-10s being sold as with single stack mags and pistol grips by Century. Also explain the Benelli shotguns with pistol grips. Neither of the aforementioned items have US parts in them, because neither of them have more than "two evil features" or the ability to accept a "non sporting magazine". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 cause the wasr is imported with the drag style stock the benelli i dont know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 cause the wasr is imported with the drag style stock the benelli i dont know. The WASR-10 to which I refer has a full military appearance. Pistol grip and standard AK butt stock. It has no threaded muzzle, nor can it accept milsurp mags. Century has been selling them for years that way, as well as "right out of the container" with the drag style stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saigafreake 27 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Maybe they import them with no pistol grip installed. I bought a single stack wasr2 with pistol grip it had us made fcg gas piston and pg already put on by century so im not sure. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
N4KVE 14 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Between the pistol grip & FCG, that's 4 US parts. Get a Hi cap mag & that's 3 more US parts. Now you have 7 & you're good to go. Look, no ones been busted for being 1 US part short in the count, but since you are modifying the gun, you are responsible for having the correct amount of US parts. Now if you buy a gun used, & it's short a few US parts, well that's another story, but you are modifying the gun, so 922 comes into the picture. GARY N4KVE Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 Get a Hi cap mag Like this? Repeat after me: "There is no such thing as a "Hi cap" magazine." The term is a legal construction that has no basis in reality. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Rhodes1968 1,638 Posted September 24, 2009 Report Share Posted September 24, 2009 I want to leave my existing stock in place on my 20" 308 and simply add a pistol grip and move the trigger to the proper place (with new FCG). CAN I DO THIS WITHOUT ANY ISSUES? I don't plan on using any high cap mags. I just want a better trigger and grip of the rifle. I've been under the impression that adding a "pistol-grip" will kick in 922r. If you're adding a USA made pistol-grip, you've only changed 3 foreign parts. On Saigas, I believe 4 foreign parts must be exchanged/eliminated for 922r. If I'm wrong, then someone will/should speak-up and set me/us straight. It does kick 922r. FCG is 3 parts, see the stickies, the PG does not count as long as it is US made, so one more part is needed. Of course mags count as three, hi-cap is immaterial since 922r is already invoked by the PG. So US mag will make you legal. Cheapest part to change out may the the hand guard for about 40.00 for the infusion to use Saiga mag. If this is true, please explain the WASR-10s being sold as with single stack mags and pistol grips by Century. Also explain the Benelli shotguns with pistol grips. Neither of the aforementioned items have US parts in them, because neither of them have more than "two evil features" or the ability to accept a "non sporting magazine". See that is what bothers me since it can accept those mags right out of the box, a 30 round Pro-Mag is not sporting, or is it, or was it , or will it be, confusing since the Saiga can accept it even if you are not using it. 922r was written to be vague on purpose so BARF can do what its best at, harassing law abiding people. I just always assume it is in effect as soon as the first "good" feature is added since unlike Century Arms I dont have a lawyer on retainer. Yes I know the odds are remote of ever having to prove it but then we are law abiding people who dont want to pick a fight just yet. As long as you assume the worst there is no opening for problems. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 At Dunham's Sporting Good store in South Haven, they have 2 different models of the AK-47 or AKM One is a Century for $599 and has a double stack magazine. The other is $499 and has a single stack magazine. Both have full AK gear, butt stock, PG, etc. I know you don't believe in High Capacity magazine, but it's the best explanation of an other than "standard" comes with it magazine. If it holds 10 (223/7.62x39) then it's a standard "as imported". If it holds 11 then it's a high capacity magazine even though it only holds one more. 50 would be nice. 2 side by side drums would also be nice. When you talk "hunting" that's a field of it's own. In Michigan you can't have more than 5 round magazines to use for hunting. Nebraska is also different, as well as other states. Perhaps the best description is a larger capacity magazine, as this would mean anything above the standard that came with it as imported. IE For the .308 standard is 8 anything above 8 is "larger capacity" and falls into the rules count. Makes me wonder about the "standard" 8 that I have that now holds 10. Will hold 11 but won't push down far enough to load in the rifle. FWIW I had a PG on my Saiga .223 with the "came with" sporting stock, and the FCG group moved forward. Works fine as YOU don't have to reach from the stock itself as all you have to reach is from the PG to the trigger. No Problemo! Put on a Tapco collapsible stock a while later when I got it in the mail. This was during my swap over furniture from the .223 to the .308. I got an actual AK-47 Tapco stock and have it extended to the maximum position and wish it had at least one more notch to go. Hence I really like my Tapco T6 stock that had the attached PG on the stock itself, as I use it on the .308 at the next to last position. Gives me just a bit more length in the stock. I need the lenght. Some might not need this. It was also a bit cheaper to go with the AK-47 stock from Midway USA than the Saiga Tapco collapsible stock. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
nalioth 405 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Perhaps the best description is a larger capacity magazine, as this would mean anything above the standard that came with it as imported. IE For the .308 standard is 8 anything above 8 is "larger capacity" and falls into the rules count. Makes me wonder about the "standard" 8 that I have that now holds 10. Will hold 11 but won't push down far enough to load in the rifle. The best description is a magazine capacity larger than the weapon was designed for. The Russians add Klinton parts to "dumb down" the Saiga from being a Kalashnikov. The Kalashnikov was not designed with "Klinton parts". The Kalashnikov was designed with 30 and 45 round mags in mind. 75 and 100 round drums were also issued by some countries. "High capacity magazine" is a legal term and as such has no bearing on reality. The terms "non sporting magazine" (for "more magazine capacity then the evil ol' rifle was imported with") and "sporting magazine" (you know, 10 or less dainty cartridges in the mag) are better descriptives today. Back before the AWB, "double stack mag" and "single stack mag" were used as well, because, you know, guns are designed to hold 16, 20, and even 32 rounds in their magazines by their inventors. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Darth AkSarBen 20 Posted September 29, 2009 Report Share Posted September 29, 2009 Kind of like my Ruger 10/22. It came with a 10 round "factory" magazine, but there aftermarket magazines that can hold a few more. When you're chasing a coyote across an open field with that 10 rounder (some distance away) and it goes "click" kind of makes you want more than the 10 that came with it. By the time you drop the magazine (10/22) and reload, he's GONE JOHNSON. True, nothing like the Klinton group to fuck up a perfectly good designed weapon, just for the sake of looking good. Had nothing to do with lowering crime rate, criminals never paid it any attention. Crime still marched on. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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