[tover26 18]

Box of Truth/Buick of Truth... that was some fun stuff. I found myself wishing that they'd had the engine running when they shot the engine block and that they had also shot the tires while the tires were spinning. I'm working on the assumption that slugs would kill the engine function immediately. I'd be curious what different types of ammo would puncture a spinning tire. Anyone else get frustrated by the fact that in movies, they rarely shoot at the tires? Is there a reason for that besides shattering glass looks cool in a movie? I'm still trying to figure out how Morpheus capsized a Chevy Avalanche (or whatever that was) with a katana and then shot the fuel line till the truck exploded in the 2nd Matrix movie.

 

I think the issue with birdshot is that you have to aim it as accurately as a slug or buckshot to have it be effective and that each step of distance, the birdshot will hurt and damage like hell but it probably lets the bad guy shoot back at you for a while. If you have to aim that accurately at short distances, go for something that - when you hit the bad guy - makes them stop trying to kill you.

[aresv 49]

You might wanna try prefacing your opinions with "I think", or throw a "imo" in there somewhere.

 

Opinions are like you-know-whats. Let's try some cold hard facts. You said earlier you run slugs for home defense.

What is your home made of?

Does your home contain any humans, animals or valuable objects that you'd rather not put a hole in?

How far away are your nearest neighbors?

 

Unless you live by yourself in a hardened bunker (or are concerned about bird attacks) there are better ammo choices than slugs and birdshot.

[havok 21]

I currently have 4 rounds of #4 underneath a hollow-point slug. The #4 on top gets deformed and I get worried that it won't feed when i need it.

 

No idea how the penetration is on the HP slugs though...

 

Thats why I use a magpin with 8rds of 00 under the pin.

 

 

I'am going to get some Hevi-Shot Max Defense,Centurion ball and buck,Remington#4 buck,#1buck and 00 buck and test them all on the same outing.

I'am a contractor so I always have junk doors,studs,drywall,Ins,and siding to setup behind a good target. I still do not have an idea what to use as a main target. Any Cheap ideas?

[vbrtrmn 167]

You might wanna try prefacing your opinions with "I think", or throw a "imo" in there somewhere.

 

Crap, I thought all opinions were facts

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

You might wanna try prefacing your opinions with "I think", or throw a "imo" in there somewhere.

 

Crap, I thought all opinions were facts

 

Apparently, aresv's are indisputable truths.

 

I don't take well to being told (in so many words) that my choice of HD ammo is "absurd" and/or "ridiculous". I don't have pets/kids in rooms near my bedroom, (or even on the same floor). I will continue to mix a few slugs in with buck in my HD mags, and if aresv doesn't approve, oh well.

Edited September 22, 2009 by post-apocalyptic

[mgconnor13 206]

I know bird shot won't penatrate a tv satilite dish at 25m out of a saiga 12 19" barrel. Can't see it penetrating much if sheet metal is hardly even dented or scratched after being hit several times with bird shot. Maybe up close it might be different but I'll save bird shot for birds and clay pigeons. Slugs on the other hand not only put holes in the dish but ripped the metal. I'll have to find the pictures on my computer and post them. If some one could shoot up some sheet rock at 5-10m and take picture it would be great. Like to see how much "over penatration" this is on several layers of sheet rock.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Rusty truck

[bigwookiee 1]

I went out and ran 50 rounds of the Centurion that I posted a photo of earlier. I have a scan of one of the targets that I only shot one round into and a bowling pine that I shot as well. I have hit the bowling pins with everything from a 45/70 300 grain bullet, .45 auto, .357 mag., 30-06, .223, 30-30, and .22 LR. Usually there is hardly any damage to them. I was surprised to see the back of the bowling pin blow out. This almost made me sick.

As I intend to shoot for the CPU of any BG that come into my home, I hope I never get to see what it will do to a skull or a chests of a BG.

 

The only thing I don't like about the Centurion round is it tends to deform. My mill surplus Winchester 00 buck on the other hand I think you could run over them with a car and they would not deform. I think this is a quality of construction issue. I will take some photo of the two rounds when I get some free time over the weekend.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Bigwookiee

[mgconnor13 206]

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot3.htm

 

This is a great article on Box O' Truth about sheet rock penetration.

 

There's several valid points in the conclusion of the article.

 

1) You have to hit your target to kill it. Which means you have to AIM. The shotgun is not the wall of death people like to make it out to be. Shot placement is just as important as any other weapon.

 

2) Shotguns actualy have less penatration then pistols and rifles.

 

3) Have to penetrate the target and hit vitals to kill/ disable it which mean you also run the risk of penetrating a wall if you miss you're target.

 

4) Bird shot creates only a surface wound even at close distances. (Hunting with Dick Cheney any one?)

 

5) Slugs regardless of type are like the energizer bunny. They keep going and going. Probably not the best choice unless the walls in your kids rooms are made with old engine blocks and tank armor (Slugs can even penetrate some types of armor at close range)

 

6) 0, 00, 000 Buck shot seems to be the most desirable shell to use. They will penetrate your target's vitals with only a moderate risk of collateral damage if you do miss.

 

One thing that wasn't in the test were studs, wires, pipes, light swithches, furtinture etc... I'm pretty sure a stud would be able to take a direct hit and that would be as far as any moderate sized pellets would go. (Any one what to test that one? ) Also I don't know of any house that has 12 pieces of sheet rock (six walls) in a row with out junk of some type in between the walls (Furniture and what every else you have laying around the house). Looks like 00 will go through the wall of your room, through the wall in the hall and stop on what ever it hits in the next room. Pattern should be pretty spread out at that point so the walls (or the random crap in you're house) may be able to stop the pellets more effectively at that point. Average spread is about 1" for every yard of travel if I remember right.

 

I don't know how many people use a SBS for home defense but that should have even less penetratin because of the loss in muzzle velocity. I'll have to dig up the report but if I remember right Remington figured shotgun powder completely burns in about 25-36 cm (approximently 10-14 inches)so all those people with Short barrels less the 14" should see a loss of muzzle velocit of some type depending on the barrel length they are using.

 

Any one live in and older house with plaster an lathe boards or a log cabin? Be interesting to see how that holds up to buck shot and slugs.

 

I'm a fan of good old 00 buck shot. It's what I kept in my 870 before I got my Saiga 12. Between the walls, doors, furniture and every thing else in my house to abosorb any stray shots I feel comfortable with using buck shot in my house if I had to.

 

Found the pictures of the satillite dish some friends and me destroyed one weekend. Bird shot didn't do a thing to it other then a couple dents and chipped paint and it was some fairly thick sheet metal. Sluggs not only made hole but ripped the metal. That pretty much elminated any hope for the penerating power of bird shot for me. Makes me wonder how a guy in heavy winter clothing would fair against bird shot a close range.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Rusty truck

[havok 21]

I shot a federal muti-purpose 3dram 1 1/8oz 7 1/2shot rd right threw a moble home wall. From 10 feet outside of the trailer I shot the window out and the shot traveled 8-9feet and went threw a closet door and traveled 2 feet went into the wall and rip threw the wall and sheet metal and out the other side. After seeing that, reguler birdshot could kill someone up close.

 

I shot OO buck at a 2x4 and it ripped right threw a 2x4 stud on edge with drywall on both sides at 30 feet and keep going.

 

I plan to shot different rds into building materials. As soon as the grass in the field I shoot in starts to die.

 

If it is true about Hevishot Tshot metal is hevier then lead the Tshot whould be close to a buck shot pellet in weight. What size? I do not know.

 

As far as slugs in urban area's there are slugs made for urban/selfdefense.

[aresv 49]

I shot a federal muti-purpose 3dram 1 1/8oz 7 1/2shot rd right threw a moble home wall. From 10 feet outside of the trailer I shot the window out and the shot traveled 8-9feet and went threw a closet door and traveled 2 feet went into the wall and rip threw the wall and sheet metal and out the other side. After seeing that, reguler birdshot could kill someone up close.

 

I shot OO buck at a 2x4 and it ripped right threw a 2x4 stud on edge with drywall on both sides at 30 feet and keep going.

 

I plan to shot different rds into building materials. As soon as the grass in the field I shoot in starts to die.

 

If it is true about Hevishot Tshot metal is hevier then lead the Tshot whould be close to a buck shot pellet in weight. What size? I do not know.

 

As far as slugs in urban area's there are slugs made for urban/selfdefense.

 

 

Schedule 80 PVC pipe used for a target stand is nearly invulnerable to #7 1/2 shot unless you are point blank. Pellets just bounce right off. Buckshot, however, can tear it up pretty good. Ask me how I know

 

Hevishot is very interesting, but the cost has kept me from trying it out. The pellets (especially the large T shot) is not perfectly round. Hevishot even says themselves that it's not spherical. It looks like little footballs and eggs. That won't matter too much for terminal ballistics, but it could result in a less consistent pattern. Of course, patterns don't matter at across-the-room range, but it could be an issue with Hevi Shot Dead Coyote loads at hunting distances.

[sudaevpps43 31]

........If it is true about Hevishot Tshot metal is hevier then lead the Tshot whould be close to a buck shot pellet in weight. What size? I do not know......

 

#4 buckshot pellets are .24 caliber and typically weigh about 21 grains each, while T shot pellets are .20 caliber and a lead pellet of T shot will weigh about 14 grains. So normally a pellet of T shot has only about three-quarters the weight of a #4 buckshot pellet, which makes it signicantly lighter per pellet. Remington's website says the alloy used to make Hevi-shot is denser than lead but it doesn't say how much denser, so its hard to tell how close a T shot pellet made of Hevi-shot alloy would really be in weight to a lead #4 buckshot pellet.