vintagedude88 16 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm trying to find a vendor online that has the MSA AR mag adapter in stock to ship. I heard that Nathan at MSA is having some personal issues which has delayed shipments coming out of MSA directly to customers. However, I also noticed that MAA has 37 of these in stock to sell. The problem is, like my name, I'm from Kali and MAA is NOT KALI FRIENDLY. So does anyone know of another vendor that does have them in stock who can ship to Kali? Thanks for any help. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flashbang 34 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'm trying to find a vendor online that has the MSA AR mag adapter in stock to ship. I heard that Nathan at MSA is having some personal issues which has delayed shipments coming out of MSA directly to customers. However, I also noticed that MAA has 37 of these in stock to sell. The problem is, like my name, I'm from Kali and MAA is NOT KALI FRIENDLY. So does anyone know of another vendor that does have them in stock who can ship to Kali? Thanks for any help. I've searched...alot...for one myself, I came up empty handed. Good luck to you, I wish I had an answer. Another member of this forum had made his own....RenegadeBuck...maybe contact him? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flashbang 34 Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Here you go, it's not MSA its an ORF. Decide quick, it probably wont last. ORF Adapter for Sale Edited October 14, 2009 by Flashbang Quote Link to post Share on other sites
creature 0 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Surprised they can't ship it to you. But, then again, it is Kali. Edited October 15, 2009 by creature.shock Quote Link to post Share on other sites
buckmeister 11 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Here you go, it's not MSA its an ORF. Decide quick, it probably wont last. ORF Adapter for Sale I have two of the ORF's myself. Actually, they are the pre-ORF's. buckmeister Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Saw the thread on installing the ORF unit. How is the ORF different from the MSA adapter? I also saw Renegadebuck's adapter. It looks a little rough compared to the MSA and the ORF I saw. Is the MSA worth waiting for? Is MSA ever gonna come back? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flashbang 34 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Saw the thread on installing the ORF unit. How is the ORF different from the MSA adapter? I also saw Renegadebuck's adapter. It looks a little rough compared to the MSA and the ORF I saw. Is the MSA worth waiting for? Is MSA ever gonna come back? True about the RenegadeBuck adapter...the MSA adapter looks like a really nice piece of gear. I beleive the ORF was made for the Galil platform, but has been used successfully on Saigas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flashbang 34 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Here you go....I knew someone used one with success ORF Adapter in a Saiga Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks for the link. I also found another link in the forum showing an install from a guy who used a Dremel to mill out his trunion to fit. I also saw a thread about your AR adapter project. What happened to that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Flashbang 34 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks for the link. I also found another link in the forum showing an install from a guy who used a Dremel to mill out his trunion to fit. I also saw a thread about your AR adapter project. What happened to that? It was a PITA. I had too many ideas I was trying....kept starting new versions before perfecting the last. The last version I made was a modular aluminum one. Then I got lucky and got hold of some Bulgarian Circle 10's, I ordered the Dinzag bullet guide and put the project on hold. The bullet guide was just easier and works great. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I'm trying to find a vendor online that has the MSA AR mag adapter in stock to ship. I heard that Nathan at MSA is having some personal issues which has delayed shipments coming out of MSA directly to customers. However, I also noticed that MAA has 37 of these in stock to sell. The problem is, like my name, I'm from Kali and MAA is NOT KALI FRIENDLY. So does anyone know of another vendor that does have them in stock who can ship to Kali? Thanks for any help. I know Kommmiefornia has strange laws but How can it be illegal to own a piece of steel or aluminum? It may be illegal to use a hi-cap mag as it is illegal to convert the rifle to change it's appearance. But I don't know how any LEO could say owning 100 hi-cap AR or AK mags is illegal, if you have no gun to shoot them in, they're just chunks of metal, useless as anything but clubs. I know you can(in NC anyway)own a fully auto trigger group for an AR or an AK without any permits or federal paperwork. They just can't be in the same room as a gun that they would fit in. I can see requiring something like an ammo statement from the vendor to the customer for liability issues. I'll have to check on that part. Now concerning this: Saw the thread on installing the ORF unit. How is the ORF different from the MSA adapter? I also saw Renegadebuck's adapter. It looks a little rough What part of the machined adapter looked rough? Not taking offense, just curious? Always looking to improve. I know the first ones were rough, no question. They were made in the front yard and they looked it. They were priced accordingly. What part of the new one needs improving and what would you suggest? I'm not sure if I will make anymore, but I would still like to know. I might produce the .308's, still not sure as they are complex compared to the .223's and I don't really have the equipment to weld in tight places and make it pretty. Most of you know I'm an auto mechanic. I can restore old cars and make them as new, but a car is big enough to weld and then take a grinder to to make it smooth. That's not like welding in a 19-22mm slot. That being said, I had the new one's made and if the looks of them is not acceptable, then I don't want to have the others made by the same process, or any of my other ideas for that matter. So give me some input guys! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Renegadebuck - there is no problems with having an MSA adapter in Kalifornia. The problem is that MAA does not like Kalifornia and refuses to ship to Kalifornia. Eventhough many other out of state suppliers are willing to ship anything from firearms and accessories that are Kali compliant. I'm just trying to find an MSA adapter from a supplier that has them in stock like MAA does without having to trouble Nathan at MSA who I understand is currently having delivery problems on their orders. About your adapter, believer it or not, I didn't hear about it first in this forum. Instead, I Googled for an AR adapter and got your page in the AK files forum. Those pictures looked better than the ones in the Saiga forum but still not as finished as the MSA or the ORF I've seen so far. Perhaps those pictures are old and you have made better versions more recently. If you have a more recent pic, please post it. Also from the pictures I've seen, its not very clear how the mag release works on your adapter. I see a Z-bend bar but its not clear how it attaches to the adapter body or how it actuates the release. Perhaps more detailed pics can shed some light into that. One question, does the ORF adapter need a bullet guide? I know Renegadebuck's doesn't. Does the MSA also need a bullet guide too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
protected static 19 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Does the MSA also need a bullet guide too? It does not. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Renegadebuck - there is no problems with having an MSA adapter in Kalifornia. The problem is that MAA does not like Kalifornia and refuses to ship to Kalifornia. Eventhough many other out of state suppliers are willing to ship anything from firearms and accessories that are Kali compliant. I'm just trying to find an MSA adapter from a supplier that has them in stock like MAA does without having to trouble Nathan at MSA who I understand is currently having delivery problems on their orders. About your adapter, believer it or not, I didn't hear about it first in this forum. Instead, I Googled for an AR adapter and got your page in the AK files forum. Those pictures looked better than the ones in the Saiga forum but still not as finished as the MSA or the ORF I've seen so far. Perhaps those pictures are old and you have made better versions more recently. If you have a more recent pic, please post it. Also from the pictures I've seen, its not very clear how the mag release works on your adapter. I see a Z-bend bar but its not clear how it attaches to the adapter body or how it actuates the release. Perhaps more detailed pics can shed some light into that. One question, does the ORF adapter need a bullet guide? I know Renegadebuck's doesn't. Does the MSA also need a bullet guide too? Thanks for your input! I'm sorry I can't help with your search as I know of no one. I believe the ORF does need a guide. I didn't mean to Hijack, so back to topic and best wishes to all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Thanks for your input! I'm sorry I can't help with your search as I know of no one. I believe the ORF does need a guide. I didn't mean to Hijack, so back to topic and best wishes to all. Really it was no hijack at all. I'm glad I found you here in this forum. I didn't want to hassel with signing up in the AK forum just to talk to you about your mag adapter. So are you still making them? The last I saw was that you were working on partnering with someone to produce it in quantity so that it would be more profitable for you. Also I noticed that your .308 FAL adapter thread has been somewhat dead. Will that come back too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Thanks for your input! I'm sorry I can't help with your search as I know of no one. I believe the ORF does need a guide. I didn't mean to Hijack, so back to topic and best wishes to all. Really it was no hijack at all. I'm glad I found you here in this forum. I didn't want to hassel with signing up in the AK forum just to talk to you about your mag adapter. So are you still making them? The last I saw was that you were working on partnering with someone to produce it in quantity so that it would be more profitable for you. Also I noticed that your .308 FAL adapter thread has been somewhat dead. Will that come back too? Yes, I still have them made. It's not really profitable ($15 each), but it's kind of a matter of pride and giving back. I've had a lot of help from a lot of people in my life to last this long. If someone needs or wants my adapter, I'll do my best to see he has one. I was working with some people to mass produce them, but they wanted to do it in China for profit's sake. I would rather not make anything on them and work Americans than make a good profit and take a chance on the commies getting them mass produced and used against our military. It works really well on Norincos. I'm still proving the .308. So far so good. No failures so far, but I really haven't shot it enough to be comfortable selling it or even making the plans available, which is probably what I'll do. I really don't have the desire or funds to have it CNC made, and it's really tedious to build. Having it laser cut and welded would be the cheapest, but some don't like the look of steel. You are limited on how slick you can make something look when welding is involved without spending a fortune on press molds and manufacturing. I concentrated on reliability, function, and ease of installation more than looks as I'm too practical to be making something for others. I think it should look good, but it doesn't have to look better than the gun or be "pretty or tacticool" I want it to be more reliable than the rifle and last and I'm happy. In the case of an AK though, I'll settle for "just as reliable"! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Renegadebuck - I had to read over your thread in teh AK files to better understand your adapter. From what I understand is that yours doesn't require much modding to work and that all that is needed is to clearance the trunion to fit the AR mag is that correct? I don't mind doing a little Dremel work but some of the machingin involved in fitting the ORF or the MSA seems a bit beyond my skills. I want to tell you that your pics don't tell the whole story so well about your adapter. Perhaps more detailed pics of just one adapter close-up would help. If you can use a digital camera with no flash in a very well lighted area, it may show some of the details that the flash usually washes out. Let me run this by you. The mag release on your adapter is a spring loaded bar capped by a nylon screw on the right side, yes? The bar connects to that Z bend wire on the left side which has a tab on top that holds the mag in, yes? However the middle of the Z bend wire is not clear on how it is supported in the middle such that it doesn't pivot out of place when the spring loaded bar is pushed. Can you shed some light on that? As for the looks of the adapter, once its splashed with black paint, the looks doesn't matter. As for the nylon screw being the release button, I think I can fashion something in place of it thats more "ergo" looking. In regards to the bullet guide, I think I'll put one in anyways just in case. Dinzag's kits are very complete and his how to's are great. Eventhough the bullet guide may not be needed, it wouldn't hurt to have one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Renegadebuck - I had to read over your thread in teh AK files to better understand your adapter. From what I understand is that yours doesn't require much modding to work and that all that is needed is to clearance the trunion to fit the AR mag is that correct? I don't mind doing a little Dremel work but some of the machingin involved in fitting the ORF or the MSA seems a bit beyond my skills. I want to tell you that your pics don't tell the whole story so well about your adapter. Perhaps more detailed pics of just one adapter close-up would help. If you can use a digital camera with no flash in a very well lighted area, it may show some of the details that the flash usually washes out. Let me run this by you. The mag release on your adapter is a spring loaded bar capped by a nylon screw on the right side, yes? The bar connects to that Z bend wire on the left side which has a tab on top that holds the mag in, yes? However the middle of the Z bend wire is not clear on how it is supported in the middle such that it doesn't pivot out of place when the spring loaded bar is pushed. Can you shed some light on that? As for the looks of the adapter, once its splashed with black paint, the looks doesn't matter. As for the nylon screw being the release button, I think I can fashion something in place of it thats more "ergo" looking. In regards to the bullet guide, I think I'll put one in anyways just in case. Dinzag's kits are very complete and his how to's are great. Eventhough the bullet guide may not be needed, it wouldn't hurt to have one. You are basically correct on how it works as best as we can communicate. The push button bar is limited in length so the magcatch at the top of the "z" bend doesn't exit the slot in the adapter body,so everything stays lined up at all times. The "Z" bend, Your term, is tempered so it doesn't bend, The pushrod does some, (where the pushbutton attaches) but not enough to matter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted October 16, 2009 Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 Saw the thread on installing the ORF unit. How is the ORF different from the MSA adapter? I also saw Renegadebuck's adapter. It looks a little rough compared to the MSA and the ORF I saw. Is the MSA worth waiting for? Is MSA ever gonna come back? MSA IS back...... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 16, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2009 MSA IS back...... Shane, I know your pals with Nathan. I also know he had some personal problems and was working on getting back in the swing of things. However, I also see threads talking about orders from as far as Feb. not being filled. So if I placed an order with MSA today will I be expecting to receive my order sometime in the following week? The week after that? I'm not impatient but I can't wait 2-3 months on an order. BTW what did the doctor say about your "cancer" thing? Are you gonna be okay? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 Saw the thread on installing the ORF unit. How is the ORF different from the MSA adapter? I also saw Renegadebuck's adapter. It looks a little rough compared to the MSA and the ORF I saw. Is the MSA worth waiting for? Is MSA ever gonna come back? MSA IS back...... Welcome back Nathan! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JulianH 4 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm still proving the .308. So far so good. No failures so far, but I really haven't shot it enough to be comfortable selling it or even making the plans available, which is probably what I'll do. I really don't have the desire or funds to have it CNC made, and it's really tedious to build. Having it laser cut and welded would be the cheapest, but some don't like the look of steel. You are limited on how slick you can make something look when welding is involved without spending a fortune on press molds and manufacturing. I concentrated on reliability, function, and ease of installation more than looks as I'm too practical to be making something for others. I think it should look good, but it doesn't have to look better than the gun or be "pretty or tacticool" I want it to be more reliable than the rifle and last and I'm happy. In the case of an AK though, I'll settle for "just as reliable"! What about basing it on a AR-10 magazine, instead? Theoretically, you could just scale up the .223 adapter, because the AR10 mags(or at least the c-products DPMS mags) are just scaled up M16 magazines. Would that make the job easier? Certainly there is little price difference anymore... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 20, 2009 Report Share Posted October 20, 2009 I'm still proving the .308. So far so good. No failures so far, but I really haven't shot it enough to be comfortable selling it or even making the plans available, which is probably what I'll do. I really don't have the desire or funds to have it CNC made, and it's really tedious to build. Having it laser cut and welded would be the cheapest, but some don't like the look of steel. You are limited on how slick you can make something look when welding is involved without spending a fortune on press molds and manufacturing. I concentrated on reliability, function, and ease of installation more than looks as I'm too practical to be making something for others. I think it should look good, but it doesn't have to look better than the gun or be "pretty or tacticool" I want it to be more reliable than the rifle and last and I'm happy. In the case of an AK though, I'll settle for "just as reliable"! What about basing it on a AR-10 magazine, instead? Theoretically, you could just scale up the .223 adapter, because the AR10 mags(or at least the c-products DPMS mags) are just scaled up M16 magazines. Would that make the job easier? Certainly there is little price difference anymore... I did that at first, but it wasn't much of a savings and wouldn't offset the cost of the adapter unless you bought 50 mags or so. That was the original design, along with the .223. That one requires no machining(if I remember right) and would be as reliable as the .223. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JulianH 4 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I did that at first, but it wasn't much of a savings and wouldn't offset the cost of the adapter unless you bought 50 mags or so. That was the original design, along with the .223. That one requires no machining(if I remember right) and would be as reliable as the .223. What? How much would the adapter cost? Even at $200 for the adapter, 10 Surefire mags @ $45/ea=$450, whereas you could get almost 14 c-products mags for the remaining $250. http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CP30820 The break-even point would appear to be lower than 10 mags, so that's seems worth it to me. Julian Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 I did that at first, but it wasn't much of a savings and wouldn't offset the cost of the adapter unless you bought 50 mags or so. That was the original design, along with the .223. That one requires no machining(if I remember right) and would be as reliable as the .223. What? How much would the adapter cost? Even at $200 for the adapter, 10 Surefire mags @ $45/ea=$450, whereas you could get almost 14 c-products mags for the remaining $250. http://www.44mag.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CP30820 The break-even point would appear to be lower than 10 mags, so that's seems worth it to me. Julian They have come way down! They were around 30-35 each back when I first started this excursion. The .308 in the same configuration would be the same price as the .223 +or- 20 bucks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JulianH 4 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 They have come way down! They were around 30-35 each back when I first started this excursion. The .308 in the same configuration would be the same price as the .223 +or- 20 bucks. Only the c-products mags are that inexpensive. Magpul is supposed to release a p-mag "soon" in the same price range, either should be a very reliable mag. It's also 3 more US parts. So is a SR-25 mag adapter back in the works? <hint hint> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegadebuck 16 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 They have come way down! They were around 30-35 each back when I first started this excursion. The .308 in the same configuration would be the same price as the .223 +or- 20 bucks. Only the c-products mags are that inexpensive. Magpul is supposed to release a p-mag "soon" in the same price range, either should be a very reliable mag. It's also 3 more US parts. So is a SR-25 mag adapter back in the works? <hint hint> I'm ordering a mag today. The adapter for this should be ready in a week or so. Will post when complete. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JulianH 4 Posted October 21, 2009 Report Share Posted October 21, 2009 You rock! This is the only thing really holding back the Saiga .308 as a viable MBR platform. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
MAAnew 162 Posted October 22, 2009 Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 If you are still looking for one, call us tomorrow and we can probably sell you one. Renegadebuck - there is no problems with having an MSA adapter in Kalifornia. The problem is that MAA does not like Kalifornia and refuses to ship to Kalifornia. Eventhough many other out of state suppliers are willing to ship anything from firearms and accessories that are Kali compliant. I'm just trying to find an MSA adapter from a supplier that has them in stock like MAA does without having to trouble Nathan at MSA who I understand is currently having delivery problems on their orders. About your adapter, believer it or not, I didn't hear about it first in this forum. Instead, I Googled for an AR adapter and got your page in the AK files forum. Those pictures looked better than the ones in the Saiga forum but still not as finished as the MSA or the ORF I've seen so far. Perhaps those pictures are old and you have made better versions more recently. If you have a more recent pic, please post it. Also from the pictures I've seen, its not very clear how the mag release works on your adapter. I see a Z-bend bar but its not clear how it attaches to the adapter body or how it actuates the release. Perhaps more detailed pics can shed some light into that. One question, does the ORF adapter need a bullet guide? I know Renegadebuck's doesn't. Does the MSA also need a bullet guide too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vintagedude88 16 Posted October 22, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2009 (edited) I found one. In state from a fellow Calgunner. A big thanks to everyone who has extended their hand to help. Edited October 22, 2009 by FrustratedInCali Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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