Rifled Barrel possibilities - brainstorming

[Arbyrust 0]

Nobody even mentioned chokes tubes installed on a smooth bore. One option is a rifled choke tube. I talked to a smith who said his customers had very favorable results. Does anyone have first hand knowledge?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

Nobody even mentioned chokes tubes installed on a smooth bore.  One option is a rifled choke tube.  I talked to a smith who said his customers had very favorable results.  Does anyone have first hand knowledge?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I asked the same question 12 posts ago. I have one of the new rifled paradox chokes on my 12 but can't test it out till I finish my conversion project. Has anyone else tried one of these?

[Bvamp 604]

ive only ever shot through full paradox barrels before. im not too interested in a multiuse barrel, as you get into the deal of shooting skeet with rifle sights, or shooting slugs at 50 yards with bead sights. Id rather just change the barrel out or just have a gun set up just for slugs.

 

I have seen a bunch of guys remark on the paradox chokes though. the common belief is they improve accuracy somewhat. you still arent supposed to fire sabots out of a paradox choke, however.

 

I myself am more interested in a rifled barrel so that I can fire my homemade sabots through it. I would love to see if they are as stable as I hope they are downrange.

[drooling idiot 1]

I asked the same question 12 posts ago.

sorry i thought your post was rhetorical.

 

 

I have one of the new rifled paradox chokes on my 12 but can't test it out till I finish my conversion project. Has anyone else tried one of these?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a few years ago a buddy of mine was given a very nice browning 12 GA by his father, his first gun . so i take him to the range with the gun to let him shoot it. the shotgun came with a few chokes , one of which was rifled . i was educated/impressed that day by how accurate the gun was with slugs. i believe it was a great combination of right ammo with right barrel, as the gun also LOVED the OOO buck we ran through it , but hated most other loads we tried.

I've been told and believe ,

"shotguns are funny - two identical guns, make, model, barrel type,- will shoot completely differently from each other , like different ammo , and have different patterns."

that said, i had my saiga threaded for rem-chokes and bought an extended rifled choke to increase the guns versatility and "sport-ability" , but because of winter weather I've been unable/willing to run any slugs through it.

[McUZI 1]

1) Without AG approval ("findings") isn't anything with a bore greater than .5" automatically a DD?

 

Yes, but a rifled 12 gauge shotgun has been adjudicated as being NOT a DD, thus making a 12 gauge rifled shotgun (Like the Mossberg 395 or the Savage 210, etc) is OK, based on precedence.

 

2) On an existing shotgun with a smooth-bore factory barrel (like the S 12) how can the AG find the addition of, or redesign to , a rifled non-factory barrel sporting if he has never seen it? (provided the factory never offered a rifled barrel or received AG approval for one).

Because 12 gauge cartridges are recognized as being "particularly sporting", as claused in the law itself.

The Tech Branch can say that "all firearms chambered in .600 Nitro Express aren't DD's".

That means that if you buy a bolt action suitable to host such a cartridge (very few actions are, but for the sake of argument, let's say that you did) and build up a gun chambered as such, you don't have to send it to the tech branch to be examined as an "individual gun", as they have already established the chambering as being "sporting", thus exempt from the proviso that causes a firearm to be a DD.

 

my history is a little fuzzy but weren't these items made or imported with the AG approval before being reclassified as unsporting by a different AG ?

 

Yes

 

my point is they approved them as sporting , exempting them from DD , then a clinton AG reversed that approval making them DD's. It had nothing to do with rifling applying and nothing to do with this conversation. - pure politics.

No, that isn't your point. Your attempt at a "point" was that a shotgun that had a "fixed" barrel fell into some non-existant category of the law that in turn somehow translated into a DD, but that the ATF chose not to pursue it.

I pointed out that the issue of rifled slug guns is settled in the eyes of the law, to which you are now apparently trying to change "points".

(PS- The not to be nitpicky, but the declaration of DD status of the shotguns in question weren't made by the Attorney General ("AG"), they were made by the Director of the Treasury)

 

If you have a copy of the AG's determination of that , or a link to it on the web , then you've answered my question . If not then your only mouthing off with your opinion , when only the current AG's opinion matters.

 

Contact Mossberg, Savage, Tar-Hunt, Browning, or any of the panopoly of makers who have made rifled slug guns and received permission to do from the ATF.

 

I've expressed no opinion on this matter one way or the other , neither has anyone else in this thread to my knowledge, so i can only guess you've included this in your response to make yourself feel impressive??

I'm not impressed or intimidated, .600 nitro rifles have nothing to do with the question being debated... as i see it .

0

 

I was pointing out a situation of a firearm that was over .50 that wasn't classified as a DD.

No, were weren't debating .600 Nitro Express rifles, but I used that as an "example" to point out that all firearms over .50 aren't DD's.

Ya see, that's how a debate works.

 

I'm looking forward to debating with you mcuzi

 

You shouldn't be looking forward to debating me, as you are wrong.

Incorrect.

 

People who are simply wrong are OK, as everyone is wrong at some point.

People who are wrong yet insist on exhibiting energy and time "debating" their "point" in spite of their being wrong are just plain retards.

[McUZI 1]

the NFA act was at the height of the race wars in the 60's

 

so basically, the NFA act was there to prevent something from happening in the future like the civil rights riots in the 60's.

 

i dont know if it worked or not, but the rodney king riots were a decent example of a situation where a common possession of machineguns and other guns by the law abiding citizens would have made things really bad.

 

 

Wrong.

 

The "NFA Act" did indeed have to do with machineguns, but it wasn't passed in the 60's for racial reasons.

The NFA act was passed in 1934.

 

The act you are thinking of was the 1968 Gun Control Act, which only had scant provisions dealing with NFA weapons (Importation of machineguns for civilian sale; it also gave us the lovely .50 bore limits for Title 1 firearms)

 

The 1968 Gun Control act did, however, have a racial component to it.

Robert Sherill (I can never remember if it has two r's, two L's or a pair of each, so google at your own risk) wrote a brilliant book in the early 1970's (?) called "The Saturday Night Special", which was hard core anti-gun to it's core, but had a broader social commentary that applied to either side.

 

In it he had a quote (PP)- "the Gun Control Act was passed not to control guns, but to control blacks.... The fear of 'armed niggers' ran deep; the flood tide rose steadily up Capitol Hill...."

 

One must remember that in the radical 60's, our low-IQ, watermellon chomping, fruit-flavored soda swilling, ape looking buddies could pick up an outdoors magazine and order as many firearms as they wanted, delivered right to their door in the same fashion as any law abiding white boy might do.

Radical negro groups of this time period invariably had NRA memberships which at that time entitled one to free ammo, $30 1911 pistols and M1 Carbines, etc...

This was also the wonderous era where an entire World Wars worth of Dewat (Deavtivated War Trophy) automatic weapons were freely sold- with the only "de" being done to the "wat" in question was a small weld on the barrel and a small weld over the chamber, which even a radical 1960's Negro could "unwat" with a hand file in as much time as it took him to sire another illegitimate child for us all to pay for.

 

It was a great time for a gun nut to be in... I wish I could buy a $90 20MM Lahti anti-tank cannon or a $30 War-Vet 1911

[Bvamp 604]

man, I shouldnt be approving that post, but I gotta see what is said. you have a good point McUzi, but how you say it? I dunno man.

 

What ive been wondering McUzi, is if those WERE the reasons for passing gun laws, any gun law, isnt that unconstitutional and illegal? It sure seems like it is.

[Tokageko 8]

Personally I think those were some of the better posts I've read from McUZI, and I agree with him completely..... but then again I'm 'stupid' so take that with a grain of salt if you must. ; )

 

Politics aside, I'd love to see a saiga 12 with a rifled barrel.

 

I heard once, can't remember where, that you can tell what a politician thinks of you by their stance on the 2nd amendment. If they support it, that means that they think of you as basically good, and intelligent/responsible enough to safely have and use weapons. If they don't, then they don't trust you because they think you're an ignorant fool who shouldn't even be allowed to use a steak knife.

 

Ok, so I added to that a bit, but you get the point. As far as racism goes, I think it may have had something to do with the later import ban (on military style/non-sporting firearms) as well. Nothing has done more to drive up the cost of semi-automatic rifles more (as far as I know). Before, you could get a Polytech M14 clone for less than $300. Now, unless you're buying illegaly in Canada, you can't get one for less than $600, much more if you want something US made. Altogether I don't know about handguns, so someone else will have to comment on that, though I know that there are imported handguns that can be had for reasonable prices. Either way, the point I was trying to make is that the import ban did nothing more than drive up prices, taking those weapons out of the reach of "low income" people. Aside from that, there's the constant battle to make it harder to legally operate a gun store/manufacture weapons for the civilian market. That's really another story though. It probably actually has more to do with the government not wanting anyone to have guns in the first place.

 

Ok, that's enough of that. Anyway, the important thing is:

 

BRG3: I'd like a Saiga 12 with a rifled barrel. By the way, how's it going with the rim-less 12 gauge ammo?

[G O B 3,516]

McUZI- The whole appeal of gun controll is to dis-arm the lower classes.The racial element is strong, but the hidden class warfare is also very real. The people pushing gun controll have their guns, or have enough money to HIRE people to carry guns for them. (How unamerican is that!

 

G O B

[DHunter 1]

C'mon now G O B, we know what you really want. Siaga 300 win. mag & video of you bump firing it!

[Bvamp 604]

what I want is a 50 cal saiga.

[G O B 3,516]

Belt fed!

 

G O B