voonman 133 Posted October 30, 2009 Report Share Posted October 30, 2009 Hi everyone I need your Help on this A few weeks back..i fed my saiga 12 with 50 rounds of the remington 100 round wally world bulk pack..All cycled fine except 3 FTEs..After doing a thorough cleaning as usual i noticed while cleaning my bolt..the small pin that keeps the bolt together where the firing pin is located came loose and i took it apart to see if everything was intact then i put everything back together as it were...The other day i went out to shoot the rest of the remington bulk pack and they all refused to cycle properly..I checked the Gas Block to see if there were any obstructions and there were none..All the Holes were cleared and inplace as there were before when i got the gun back from Tom Cole at CGW..So i called up Keith from Tac 47 and purchased a MD Gunfixer Plug to see if that would help resolve the issue....So today i went out and bought a pack of the Federal 100 round packs from wally world plus whatever was left back from the remingtons that i had...I set the Gunfixer Plug on #3 setting which is suppose to be the highest..And unfortunately i had a hard time cycling both federal and Remington..Out of every 25 rounds,I would get 9 FTEs or FTFs..These were shot from the shoulder..The ones that would eject were going about 1 1/2 - 2ft away from me..Which is not normal...Currently i am using the standard Gas Puck..And i have noticed that it fits a little looser than it did before..Even if i cycle about 25 rounds or so..I can here it move up and down if i move the gun..Can someone tell me what is the exact diameter of the standard Gas Puck? and also what is the standard diameter of the Gas Block..I am also currently using 10round Promags and the standard 5round that i have been using in the past which i had no problems with...I am really baffled on this problem.Could it be the Gas Puck?Could it be the Bolt?Your replies and help on this matter would be much appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 >>The other day i went out to shoot the rest of the remington bulk pack and they all refused to cycle properly.. What does this mean? (fail to feed, fail to eject, etc.) Did you do anything to the puck? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 >>The other day i went out to shoot the rest of the remington bulk pack and they all refused to cycle properly.. What does this mean? (fail to feed, fail to eject, etc.) Did you do anything to the puck? Yes it means Fail to feed and Fail to eject and No i havent done anything to the puck.No modifications what so ever...Here is a pic that i took of the side of the gun..Is it suppose to have a gas port here? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Paulyski 2,227 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 >>The other day i went out to shoot the rest of the remington bulk pack and they all refused to cycle properly.. What does this mean? (fail to feed, fail to eject, etc.) Did you do anything to the puck? Yes it means Fail to feed and Fail to eject and No i havent done anything to the puck.No modifications what so ever...Here is a pic that i took of the side of the gun..Is it suppose to have a gas port here? I am not exactly sure what the cause of your problem is, bit there IS supposed to be a gas port there. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 check something for me.... pull your bolt out and see how much slop the piston attached to the bolt carrier has for slop when it joints the bolt carrier.....also inspect rear trunion for marks from the bolt rear face..... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 one other thing if you could take a quick look. in this picture is a brand new S12, and an old S12. the old is the shinier one..... look at the gas tube on the older gun in this picture, just forward of the rear sight, and you will see it is dented out slightly, where the new gun is not. do you notice any of this distortion on your gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 Hi Thanx for replying I took some photos..so i hope this helps..But i did not see any swelling or bulges on the gas block..The piston has a little bit of play between the bolt carrier but not much...I dont see any signs of serious wear on the bolt face..After cleaning...When i shake the gun left and right i can hear the gas puck wiggle a little bit..Is this normal? one other thing if you could take a quick look. in this picture is a brand new S12, and an old S12. the old is the shinier one..... look at the gas tube on the older gun in this picture, just forward of the rear sight, and you will see it is dented out slightly, where the new gun is not. do you notice any of this distortion on your gun? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Spartacus 1,619 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 >>The other day i went out to shoot the rest of the remington bulk pack and they all refused to cycle properly.. What does this mean? (fail to feed, fail to eject, etc.) Did you do anything to the puck? Yes it means Fail to feed and Fail to eject and No i havent done anything to the puck.No modifications what so ever...Here is a pic that i took of the side of the gun..Is it suppose to have a gas port here? So it's both failing to feed and also failing to eject? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 >>The other day i went out to shoot the rest of the remington bulk pack and they all refused to cycle properly.. What does this mean? (fail to feed, fail to eject, etc.) Did you do anything to the puck? Yes it means Fail to feed and Fail to eject and No i havent done anything to the puck.No modifications what so ever...Here is a pic that i took of the side of the gun..Is it suppose to have a gas port here? So it's both failing to feed and also failing to eject? Yes..I get about 8rounds per box of 25 both FTF and FTE.. The rest eject only about 1 1/2 - 2ft away ..which is not normal..It sounds to me ..that i have a mystery diagnoses... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 ok, so you arent totally overgassing the gun, or did from first glance..... try this, get some axle grease and slop some into the gas block (just ask your local mechanic for a dab in a bag) and fire the gun, to check for wear in the gas puck/block. also, if you take these light shells, and let the bolt slam into battery on a full mag, does the shell "bite" the chamber and not feed? are you SURE you were using 1 1/8 oz loads, as well? how many gas ports do you have Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 ok, so you arent totally overgassing the gun, or did from first glance..... try this, get some axle grease and slop some into the gas block (just ask your local mechanic for a dab in a bag) and fire the gun, to check for wear in the gas puck/block. also, if you take these light shells, and let the bolt slam into battery on a full mag, does the shell "bite" the chamber and not feed? are you SURE you were using 1 1/8 oz loads, as well? how many gas ports do you have Tom from Cadiz Widened the gas ports to 3....I am using the Federal 100 round Bulk Pack that you buy from walmart..Everything was working great..But for some reason just stopped..I have not dropped the gun or the Bolt Carrier...Sometimes the Shell would bite when i pull the bolt back and release it but not alot...I will try the Elbow grease..But when i do..What should i look out for? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 well, we did a gas system repair for you already......and its not showing signs of over gassing..... did you check your gas ports and make sure they are clear? im starting to run out of obvious questions here.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 If the pin was loose in the bolt, and you messed with it, that is where to start looking for the problem. I have had the same pin work loose and cause problems like you describe. I lightly center punched the end of the pin to keep it tight. Don't over do, just medium punch on the ends of the pin to expand the diameter to a press fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted October 31, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 If the pin was loose in the bolt, and you messed with it, that is where to start looking for the problem. I have had the same pin work loose and cause problems like you describe. I lightly center punched the end of the pin to keep it tight. Don't over do, just medium punch on the ends of the pin to expand the diameter to a press fit. I will also try that..But how does the gun get FTEs and FTFs by a loose bolt pin? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted October 31, 2009 Report Share Posted October 31, 2009 That pin can back out and cause drag or binding. and yes it will cause the problems you are getting. You might try another box of ammo, sometimes the lots are light loaded............that's one of the reasons it's sold cheap at the big box store......Federal is the best of the bunch, but it's still cheap ammo. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 how can i make it stay in place?I tried to use a punch on it very lightly but it still seems to wiggle out of place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VanKiller 322 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I've had one that I shortened the pin SLIGHTLY and then staked it in place with a punch. By shortening the length it gives a little room for the metal to expand over the edge of the pin and hold it. how can i make it stay in place?I tried to use a punch on it very lightly but it still seems to wiggle out of place Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 If it was running good before, my first suspect would be the bolt, or something causing drag on the action, or loss of gas. Did you find powder residue in any unusual places on the outside of the gun like close to/around the gas plug, or where the factory front sight is, like gas might be escaping? When you said that the puck rattles if you shake it, do you mean it moves forward and back, or it fits loose enough to rattle side to side? Does the bolt head spin/turn back and forth freely in the bolt, or is it stiff? When you have a failure to feed, is the shell being pushed out of the mag and hitting the gun above the chamber, or below the chamber? Any cracks in the bolt carrier? Any rough spots on the rails? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted November 1, 2009 Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 if its the pin dragging because its loose, take it out, tap it a couple times with a hammer on a piece of metal on the pin end that you plan to drive from, and distort the round dimension a HAIR, and that will keep it in place when you reinsert the pin. if you smash the damn thing, you are gonna have a problem, so just LIGHTLY tap it to distort it a TINY bit, and that should do it. a couple tries is better in this case. dont overdo it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I will try that and see if that works also.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted November 1, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2009 I did not find any power residue anywhere out of the ordinary ...And when the puck rattles.. i meant that if you shake it side to side..not up and down like you usualy would..But left to right you can hear it rattle a little bit....The bolt head turns and spins freely..there is no hang up when i remove it out of the bolt carrier but if i turn the bolt head left and right too much the pin will pop out and i am easily able to access the firing pin when this happens. .....When i get failure to feed,the round hits a little high of the chamber...Currently i havent seen any cracks on the bolt carrier or the bolt unless they are microscopic and i could be missing them...And i havent checked the rails for any rough spots..I will do that as soon as i finish posting... If it was running good before, my first suspect would be the bolt, or something causing drag on the action, or loss of gas. Did you find powder residue in any unusual places on the outside of the gun like close to/around the gas plug, or where the factory front sight is, like gas might be escaping? When you said that the puck rattles if you shake it, do you mean it moves forward and back, or it fits loose enough to rattle side to side? Does the bolt head spin/turn back and forth freely in the bolt, or is it stiff? When you have a failure to feed, is the shell being pushed out of the mag and hitting the gun above the chamber, or below the chamber? Any cracks in the bolt carrier? Any rough spots on the rails? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
cscharlie 107 Posted November 3, 2009 Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I think it sounds like the pin is backing out of the bolt and causing drag like BVAMP reffered to above with a remedy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
voonman 133 Posted November 3, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 3, 2009 I didnt find any rough spots on the rail...I just ordered a standard twister puck..I was also able to fit the pin back in place by taking BVamps advice by hammering it lightly on one side so it wouldnt come loose again....When i receive the twister puck..I will do a test without it to see if my saiga is cycling properly again since i fixed the pin.If that doesnt work...Then i will replace the standard puck to see if it makes a difference.If none of these remedies work..I will call Tom and see what my next option would be.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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