Botasky1 3 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 An interesting article i came across today.. It seems Mr. Anatoly Isaikin is a little pissed about all the AK clones being passed around throughout the world. State says only half of 100 million AK-47 rifles are Russian-made models http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/russia-cracks-down-on-fake-kalashnikovs-1808422.html Its a quick read, nothing to lengthy... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 wonder what this means for US ak companies like lancaster.. hopefully nothing Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Botasky1 3 Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 wonder what this means for US ak companies like lancaster.. hopefully nothing my thoughts exactly.. mainly because Lancaster builds a masterful example of an AK47.. But this could mean opening the doors for more import of SAIGA brand.. and hell, maybe even some legislation changes on imports/922R.. One can only hope.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jhansjr 8 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Maybe they can crack down on fake Kobra Red Dots while they're at it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Personally, I prefer the genuine article - but as far as protecting the design? First of all, copyright protects an artistic work, not a mechanical design. One could photograph a Kalashnikov, and the photographers work - the photograph would be protected under copyright law, but if the Soviets...er, Russians sent a copyright claim in for a the mechanical design of a rifle created over 60 years ago, the copyright examiners would fall out of their chairs laughing. Filing a patent, trade dress, or trademark claim 60 years after the fact would present enormous challenges under the BEST of circumstances. Plus - with all of the non-cooperation we have been getting from Russia with regard to Iran's nuclear weapons program, I just don't see the US patent, copyright, and trademark offices scrambling to make exceptions for the old Russian AK platform that they don't make for old Colt or Browning designs. At the end of the day it could end up making a lot of US intellectual property lawyers very happy. They'll be happy to take that Russian money and sue, sue, sue. But at the end of the day - my personal opinion is that Russia is about 50 or so years too late to make this one stick. JMHO, WS BTW, I'm not a lawyer, but I have successfully defended my own copyrights in federal district court, and unlike the writer of that article, I know the difference between a copyright and a patent. Edited November 12, 2009 by WaffenSchmied Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 wonder what this means for US ak companies like lancaster.. hopefully nothing my thoughts exactly.. mainly because Lancaster builds a masterful example of an AK47.. But this could mean opening the doors for more import of SAIGA brand.. and hell, maybe even some legislation changes on imports/922R.. One can only hope.. I have to wonder IF they do get screwed what this does to their life time warranties.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) wonder what this means for US ak companies like lancaster.. hopefully nothing my thoughts exactly.. mainly because Lancaster builds a masterful example of an AK47.. But this could mean opening the doors for more import of SAIGA brand.. and hell, maybe even some legislation changes on imports/922R.. One can only hope.. Lancaster "assembles" (cobbles together) AK Kits from Romanian used stock that was rejected for further use. They are one step above Century Arms, but are not a real manufacturer. The Russians are referring to factories/companies like Arsenal of Bulgaria, Cugir of Romania, and many others who use equipment and know-how lent to them during the Cold-War in order to churn out copy-cat and in some cases inferior products. In my opinion MTK should get a portion of the revenue produced from his design despite never patenting it. EDITED MYSTERY SENTENCE. Edited November 12, 2009 by bigsal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Botasky1 3 Posted November 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) . Edited November 12, 2009 by Botasky1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 sorry.. not everyone is a human dictionary like yourself.. and its my personal opinion that Lancaster builds, assembles, cobbles or whatever a pretty nice rifle. This is a forum and opinions are welcome.. so relax bigsex.. I for one thought the article was interesting and felt the need to share. Hey guy, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I'll edit my post when I am sober. It was totally out of line. That being said, I really think MTK got the shaft in terms of being able to protect his invention from knock-offs. I mean if the US wants other countries to take intellectual property seriously, we should recognize the achievements of others. my 2 cents! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Lancaster "assembles" (cobbles together) AK Kits from Romanian used stock that was rejected for further use. They are one step above Century Arms, but are not a real manufacturer. ... Also, in my opinion people should do their fucking homework before posting things to the internet. Mine too... Do you know the difference between a WASR and a AK built from a Romy kit? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) Lancaster "assembles" (cobbles together) AK Kits from Romanian used stock that was rejected for further use. They are one step above Century Arms, but are not a real manufacturer. ... Also, in my opinion people should do their fucking homework before posting things to the internet. Mine too... Do you know the difference between a WASR and a AK built from a Romy kit? Indeed I do kiddo. The Rommy G kits are used rifles the Romanian gov chops up and ships out. The WASR line is a commercial line out of Cugir factory with (often) 2nd tier parts. Again Lancaster uses the G kits, true, but they are still used parts, inferior to the stuff out of Izzy. Not sure where your going with this? Edited November 12, 2009 by bigsal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 60 years after the fact, this design is no more patent/copy right protectable than a 1911 or Mauser. The shame is that nobody has gone into US production of good clone - like 1911's. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rocinante 100 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Yep silly commies should of read the capitalist's economics 101 text book. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
volkov 318 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 lancaster uses nodak spud recievers, some of the highest quality american made ones there are to be had (so yeah a copyright would suck).. and then theres the romy g parts kit as well, but my point being they would not benefit from people coming down on liscensing since that would probably take out their reciever manufacturer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 GOB has it right. It's too late. WS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Yep silly commies should of read the capitalist's economics 101 text book. Yeah but its not MTK's fault he was born in that system. We should all paypal him $1! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RoughRider666 47 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 (edited) 60 years after the fact, this design is no more patent/copy right protectable than a 1911 or Mauser. The shame is that nobody has gone into US production of good clone - like 1911's. Why would you want an American clone that would probably cost about $1500-$2000 when you can get a Saiga for about $350-$400 and convert it yourself? Edited November 12, 2009 by RoughRider666 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Lone Star Arms 2,047 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 60 years after the fact, this design is no more patent/copy right protectable than a 1911 or Mauser. The shame is that nobody has gone into US production of good clone - like 1911's. Why would you want an American clone that would probably cost about $1500-$2000 when you can get a Saiga for about $350-$400 and convert it yourself? Just for the sake of argument, it would depend upon the clone. Also unless you have an FFL or just happen on a rockin' deal, you're not going to get a new 19" Saiga for $350 - $400. The best deal I have seen are the German market 22" (imported by RAA) S12's on gunbroker for 450 delivered, and unless you have an FFL you can reckon with a $35 to $50 transfer fee on top of that. So that brings your number closer to $500 give or take. Add around $250 - $ 400 for all the stuff you need to to a GOOD conversion, and you are now closer to a $750 - $900 figure. Figure in time to do everything needed to do a really solid conversion, with an optimally tuned gas system, correctly modded receiver components, and a first class finish and you can easily invest $600 to $700 in personal time to really get the job done right (provided you know what your are doing). So, lets see that puts you at a cost value between $1,350, and $1,600. Given this scenario, it comes down to what you have more of - time and expertise, or money. For a guy that has plenty of money but little time, and wants a top quality AK 12 gauge $1,500 to $2,000 is doable. There are plenty of builders getting even more. So, I'd say there is a market in that price range if someone decides to make a top quality AK 12 gauge right here in the USA. WS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
G O B 3,516 Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 RIA 1911=$350 or less. AK's have a lot less hand fitting, so $500 or so for volume production. Oh shit-100% to 150% mark up = > $1,000! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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