DyLonX5 3 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Overall good time out. I bought a wallyworld value pack of federal #8. All 100rds went off without a hitch on #2 gas setting. I will say though the ejection is something else. I've decided to keep my hulls as I'm interested in reloading, this thing throws them like a MLB pitcher! Out of all 100 I was able to collect 8. The rest went down range. Of the 10 bucks I managed to get 2. WTF. I need a shell catcher. Secondly, after shooting this thing it's like having a cammed hotrod. Things start coming loose and I've already lost my charging handle once. Need some loctight on that. I did also meet a young guy who bought a S12 himself and we chit-chatted a bit about the conversion as his was factory. I told him to come here and read up, hope he does! Dylan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) Keep in mind, this is just a guess.. but from your description it sounds to me as though you have a seriously overgassed gun. Even on setting 2, it should not be throwing low-brass birdshot shells as you describe; "like a MLB pitcher!". It should toss them ~4-6 ft away, (which makes collecting them easy should you want to do so). I recommend trying a Gunfixr's gas plug. This part gives you better control over your gas system, (4 hand-adjustable settings instead of 2 which require a tool to change). When you say you "lost your charging handle", I assume you mean that your Tromix bolt-on ch came loose. I have some experience with this. When I first installed it, I used some blue loctite and that worked pretty well for ~200 shells. It eventually worked loose. Since this happened, I re-installed it with red loctite and it hasn't moved at all since. My advice is to use red loctite on yours to securely keep it in place. Edited November 15, 2009 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sudaevpps43 31 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Overall good time out. I bought a wallyworld value pack of federal #8. All 100rds went off without a hitch on #2 gas setting. I will say though the ejection is something else. I've decided to keep my hulls as I'm interested in reloading, this thing throws them like a MLB pitcher! Out of all 100 I was able to collect 8. The rest went down range. Of the 10 bucks I managed to get 2. WTF. I need a shell catcher. Secondly, after shooting this thing it's like having a cammed hotrod. Things start coming loose and I've already lost my charging handle once. Need some loctight on that. I did also meet a young guy who bought a S12 himself and we chit-chatted a bit about the conversion as his was factory. I told him to come here and read up, hope he does! Dylan So the Federal value pack #8 ammo wouldn't cycle on the #1 gas setting? The distance the Saiga 12 ejects shells is directly proportional to the speed of the bolt group as it cycles back to eject the empty shell, so if you can use the #1 gas setting the velocity of the bolt group will be slower and the empty shells won't get ejected as far. If the #1 gas setting won't cycle this federal value pack ammo, and you haven't shot that much ammo through this Saiga 12 yet (less than 200 rounds), then try the #1 gas setting again after you've hit the 200 round mark. Once its had a fair amount of ammo run through it a Saiga 12's internals become smoother from all the cycling, and sometimes a Saiga 12 that wouldn't cycle a particular type of ammo on the #1 gas setting when it is brand new, will be able to cycle that same ammo just fine at the #1 gas setting once its 'broken in'. Of course you can also just get a Gunfixr gas plug which has four gas settings, including an intermediate setting between the stock russian gas plug's #1 and #2 settings, which should also slow down the bolt group, while still letting enough gas into the gas block to reliably cycle the Saiga 12. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 Keep in mind, this is just a guess.. but from your description it sounds to me as though you have a seriously overgassed gun. Even on setting 2, it should not be throwing low-brass birdshot shells as you describe; "like a MLB pitcher!". It should toss them ~4-6 ft away, (which makes collecting them easy should you want to do so). I agree with this "diagnosis". At first, my S12 would just dribble the shells out upon ejection (Federal bulk-pack, on setting 2). Instead of an MLB pitcher throwing the shells, it was more like a 4 year old girl lobbing them. My pump would spit shells farther, to be honest. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 My 4 hole gun spits 7 1/2 federal bird shot out on gas fixer 1. I shot it on 2 for about 150 rounds then inspected the rear of the bolt carrier and it's been kissing the rear trunion. I now installed a Dr. Shoals bolt buffer and an extra power 1911 front recoil spring. I haven't had a chance to take it back out for a function test yet. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jeremiah Johnson 0 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 My 4 hole gun spits 7 1/2 federal bird shot out on gas fixer 1. I shot it on 2 for about 150 rounds then inspected the rear of the bolt carrier and it's been kissing the rear trunion. I now installed a Dr. Shoals bolt buffer and an extra power 1911 front recoil spring. I haven't had a chance to take it back out for a function test yet. This might be a dumb question but hobby what part of the bolt carrier do you inspect to see if it is hitting the rear trunnion to hard? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DyLonX5 3 Posted November 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) This might be a dumb question but hobby what part of the bolt carrier do you inspect to see if it is hitting the rear trunnion to hard? I'm guessing this is what it'll look like lol First I'll say I feel dumb. I just finished cleaning and I found that once screwed all the way in the gas setting is on 2. I had it set on 1 from the last range day with magnum rounds witch is half turn out and last night I turned it a half turn out more to get to 2. I'm thinking I was supposed to turn half turn in instead. Earlier in the day I went to the gun show to buy a gas plug from Tac47 as I spoke with Keith thursday about it. He didn't make it to the show due to family stuff and they didn't bring any but I did get to talk to his sister. They had some nice S12's there as well. Cool people! I didn't try birdshot on 1 but I need too. On the charging handle yes I did mean the tromix. If the red stuff doesn't work I'll just take it to work and weld it on or thread out the stock one and get a longer hex bolt. I like that handle a lot. Edited November 15, 2009 by Dylan Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sudaevpps43 31 Posted November 15, 2009 Report Share Posted November 15, 2009 (edited) First I'll say I feel dumb. I just finished cleaning and I found that once screwed all the way in the gas setting is on 2. I had it set on 1 from the last range day with magnum rounds witch is half turn out and last night I turned it a half turn out more to get to 2. I'm thinking I was supposed to turn half turn in instead. Correct, when switching between the Saiga 12's gas settings you go back and fourth between the gas settings by rotating the plug counter-clockwise (out) from your starting gas setting to get to the other gas setting, and then rotating the plug clockwise (in) to get back to the starting gas setting. So in general you screw the gas plug in all the way, and if it doesn't stop right on a gas setting detent (which is the case on most Saiga 12s, so you got lucky with yours stopping right on the #2 detent) then back it out counter clockwise to whichever gas setting it hits first (it doesn't matter whether it hits the #1 or #2 gas setting first), and this is your starting point. To switch to the other gas setting rotate the gas plug counter clockwise (out) a half turn until it locks into the detent of the other gas setting, and to switch back to your starting gas setting you then rotate the gas plug clockwise (in) a half-turn until it locks into the detent of the starting gas setting. Edited November 15, 2009 by Frogfoot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
aresv 49 Posted November 16, 2009 Report Share Posted November 16, 2009 Just another data point: my 19" cylinder bore 4 port gun with proper strength springs will dribble Remington #8 and Estate #7 1/2 maybe one foot on Gunfixer setting 1+. On 1- it's not completely reliable. Birdshot runs in my gun on Gunfixer setting #2 for more positive ejection, and because it still doesn't hammer the rear trunnion. High brass at the range runs at 1-. High brass in case something goes bump in the night runs at 1+. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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