Stupid question

[Bounce12 407]

100% of my failure to cycle problems right now are a result of the puck getting gummed up in its section of the pressure tube. Somewhere around 100 rounds, the thing stops working.

 

Well, my AKs don't have a puck and they never stop cycling.

 

What's up with the need for a puck?

 

Will it work without it? (I assume the answer is "no")

 

What is so different about the two designs that requires an added link in the system to cause me problems? The puck is the only pain in the ass thing in my S-12 at this point. I'd love to be able to chuck it.

Edited December 19, 2009 by Bounce12

[sapper1371usmc 107]

Bounce12,

 

Do you still have the original puck? Have you tried changing the puck out to a US made puck?

 

I upgraded to an ETAC twister puck (standard)and it works really well. It scrapes all the crud out of the block while I shoot and it is very simple to clean afterwards (I just take a toothpick and push the carbon flacks out of the grooves). I usually go about 4-500 rnds without cleaning and have not run into any problems.

 

No clue why they did not just make the puck and op rod all into one unit like an AK47

[G O B 3,516]

12ga round is MASSIVE compared to AK rounds. The 'puck' is in reality a big ass piston. Shotguns have a flat end on the part that is the piston in rifles. In shotties that is no longer a piston, but an extension of the bolt carrier. (NOT an operating rod, as it is permanently attached).

[Bounce12 407]

Bounce12,

 

Do you still have the original puck? Have you tried changing the puck out to a US made puck?

 

I upgraded to an ETAC twister puck (standard)and it works really well. It scrapes all the crud out of the block while I shoot and it is very simple to clean afterwards (I just take a toothpick and push the carbon flacks out of the grooves). I usually go about 4-500 rnds without cleaning and have not run into any problems.

 

No clue why they did not just make the puck and op rod all into one unit like an AK47

 

 

I upgraded the puck from the original to the one from Kings Armory a while back. I will try the twister puck. Cleaning every 400 rounds would sure help. That's not too bad at all, although the AK will go a lot farther than that.

 

What happens if I just take the puck out? I really don't want to try it until I hear the answer to that. lol

 

I'm not sure why it wouldn't work, but I am positive the Ruskies wouldn't put it in there if it wasn't necessary.

 

Thanks for the tip about the twister puck.

[Bounce12 407]

12ga round is MASSIVE compared to AK rounds. The 'puck' is in reality a big ass piston. Shotguns have a flat end on the part that is the piston in rifles. In shotties that is no longer a piston, but an extension of the bolt carrier. (NOT an operating rod, as it is permanently attached).

 

 

Thanks.

 

Has anyone here ever fired an S-12 without it?

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

It won't work without it because the ports transfer the gas to the manifold and there has to be a seal there to then transfer that energy to the op rod or bolt carrier.

The 12 ga is a massive round compared to the x39 but the pressure is still much higher with the smaller sized rifle round. It'srobably necesary to step that power down some before it reaches the bolt carrier. The subtle changes to the gas port sizes and quantities are a hint to how important it is for that system to be balanced just right.

The different kind of powder charge is also a whole lot messier with the shotty rounds, and that shit needs to be able to build up in there but still be able to cycle the action.

[Bounce12 407]

It won't work without it because the ports transfer the gas to the manifold and there has to be a seal there to then transfer that energy to the op rod or bolt carrier.

The 12 ga is a massive round compared to the x39 but the pressure is still much higher with the smaller sized rifle round. It'srobably necesary to step that power down some before it reaches the bolt carrier. The subtle changes to the gas port sizes and quantities are a hint to how important it is for that system to be balanced just right.

The different kind of powder charge is also a whole lot messier with the shotty rounds, and that shit needs to be able to build up in there but still be able to cycle the action.

 

 

Thanks Shannon. That makes perfect sense.

[G O B 3,516]

Without the floating piston (puck) you have a bolt action, no longer auto loader.

[Nailbomb 10,221]

I go hundreds of rounds without issues.

 

did you go to the KA puck due to having issues? have you polished out your FCG, bolt and bolt carrier?

[Gunfixr 76]

I'm kind of working on a puckless adaptation to the S12, but it's not there yet.

I have actually made a replacement gas plug that deletes the puck, and tried it in a basic 19" gun. The gun will cycle with high brass shells, but nowhere close with low brass.

It was a quickie plug I hacked out in a couple hours. Sometime soon, I'll try something a bit different, and see what I can get to happen. I've heard rumors of Russian guns without pucks, but have no confirmation. If that's true, then there must be a way to do it.

 

It'll be easier to make the self-adjusting plug work than this, probably, although this would make the self-adjuster obsoloete.