victory1st 0 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hi everyone! What a great Saiga site,just a wealth of info here. I have built a few AK's and I really like the absolute reliability, so I get to thinking I really need an AK shotgun, why not have a shot at building one. I purchased a new Saiga 12 last week. I run a couple of boxes of ammo thru it to make sure all was working properly and it was completely reliable, right down to failing to eject the last round from the stock 5rnd Saiga mag every single time. All of the first 4 rounds eject fine but the 5 will likely be stovepiped into the back of chamber or sometimes the bolt is closed on the 5th empty. I load 1 round in the mag and fire and it will fail to eject. Load 1 round and drop out the mag, ejects everytime. Mag looks fine, I have took it apart I see no burrs and can't notice any tight spots. Any ideas? I am in the process of converting to PG. I haven't decided what I want to do about a stock yet, I thought I would maybe like to go with a solid poly folder but I can't locate one(looked at K-VAR and Tantal's)?? I took a few pics of the PG convertion when I get them downloaded I will post if they don't look too crappy. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Donkismash 81 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 welcome to the forum..good luck on the poly folder..DPH arms has a US made triangular folder...looks solid and has received great reviews Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nailbomb 10,221 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 I've never heard about that mag issue befor with a russian 5 rounder... Sounds like a follower issue... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
yakdung 2,926 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Welcome! Yakdung Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sudaevpps43 31 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 (edited) I've never heard about that mag issue befor with a russian 5 rounder... Sounds like a follower issue... Agreed, since victory1st's top four rounds (which feed off of the round beneath them) always feed just fine, and its always the fifth round (which feeds off the follower) that is jamming, it sounds the follower is tilting (rather than staying level) when the fifth round is stripped by the bolt. Another possibility (though probably less likely) is that the magazine spring is a little under powered, and so while it might have sufficient tension when the mag has at least a couple of shells in it, it won't quite push up on the follower with enough force to hold the fifth round securely against the feed lips by the time the bolt comes back to strip it. Which might also explain why sometimes when the bolt goes forward on the fifth round it fails to strip it and instead closes on an empty chamber with the fifth round still in the magazine (i.e. the spring isn't pushing the last round up fast enough to get stripped by the bolt). victory1st, do you have any other Russian 5 round mags available which you could exchange the follower or spring with in this mag? Then you could at least narrow down whether the problem is the follower or the spring. victory1st, also I don't know if were already aware or not, but if you want to install a Russian or Bulgarian folding stock (either triangle or polymer) in your Saiga 12, then in addition to the side-folder stock you would also need an AK side-folding stock rear trunnion and all its related retaining hardware (rear retaining hardware and front retaining hardware). Then of course you would need to de-rivet the existing rear trunnion from your Saiga 12, and then rivet in the side-folding stock rear trunnion, and also cut a small catch window and pivot pin hole in the front of the receiver for the front retaining hardware. Also, you can't mix Russian and Bulgarian stocks and rear trunnions, because the Russian version uses a 5.5mm diameter hinge, while the Bulgarian use a 4.5mm diameter hinge. If you want a folding stock it's definitely much easier to just cut off the rear tang and install a Tromix/Ace compatible folding stock hinge block instead. Also finding a Russian or Bulgarian side-folding stock and rear trunnion is becoming pretty difficult these days, so you may have trouble even finding one, whereas Tromix/Ace folding stock hinges, and the various stock that work with them, are readily available. Edited January 19, 2010 by Frogfoot Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Have you tried it with more then one magazine? That would tell you if the problem was the mag, or the gun. Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
victory1st 0 Posted January 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Which might also explain why sometimes when the bolt goes forward on the fifth round it fails to strip it and instead closes on an empty chamber with the fifth round still in the magazine (i.e. the spring isn't pushing the last round up fast enough to get stripped by the bolt). Frogfoot It always strips and fires the last round it just fails to eject it. It's like it takes so much energy to push the mag follower down that there isn't enough energy left to open the bolt far enough to the rear to hit the cartridge head on the ejecter so it just shoves the empty back into the chamber. I have tried cycleing the bolt by hand and it is more dificult to cycle with the mag in. Another thing I have only tried skeet and trap loads so far I feel a hotter shell will solve this problem. also I have some new mags coming so I will see how they work. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 if it ALWAYS does it, it might be a slight flaw in the lockup angle of the mag. kinda a pain in the ass to fix, but Tom might want to take a look at your gun. what barrel length do you own, and what is the first 2 digits of your serial # (after the letter) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kresk 10,063 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hand cycling for any reason may or may not be informative as the gun is not operating under real world dynamics. Agree with trying a different mag. Welcome to the forum! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KROSS FA 14 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Welcome aboard! Zach KROSS Quote Link to post Share on other sites
scattergunner 12 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 welcome!! dont worry, these guys will have you straightened out in no time. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 Hand cycling for any reason may or may not be informative as the gun is not operating under real world dynamics.... Agreed, and for the record, if your hand moves that fast, you are obviously single, which is why Ben suggested it ... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
victory1st 0 Posted January 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 OK OK I agree the hand cycling thing probably don't mean much!! 19inch barrel 94 serial#. I tried a 2.75 Remington express high brass #4 shot and problem solved! Kicks that last one out about 15'. I should get a couple of new 10 rnd mags any day now. I will post how that goes. Thanks much for all the ideas. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
victory1st 0 Posted January 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 25, 2010 Well I have the pg convertion finished, built a extd mag release, and started putting on a Galil type front hand guard. Need to get a AK-47 front hand guard latch assm and mod it for S12. Still Haven't made my mind up what rear stock I want to use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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