1 MOA

[jrmock 7]

I was resighting my rifle on Saturday afternoon. I had decided to switch my scoped zero from 100 yards to 200 yards (4.5X scope). Therefore I sighted it in at ~3.5 inches high at 100. This will give a zero at 200. I fired several groups at 100 before I get it where I wanted it. Then to finish at 100 I fired one more 5 shot group. The stars must have aligned or something because it is right at a 1 inch group. I have attached the picture. I also shot it at 200 and 300. The 200 yard spread was about ~5 inches. At 300 yards, it was dropping about 15 inches (which is right at what the ballistic table say). It was about a ~12 inch group.

[my762buzz 141]

I was resighting my rifle on Saturday afternoon. I had decided to switch my scoped zero from 100 yards to 200 yards (4.5X scope). Therefore I sighted it in at ~3.5 inches high at 100. This will give a zero at 200. I fired several groups at 100 before I get it where I wanted it. Then to finish at 100 I fired one more 5 shot group. The stars must have aligned or something because it is right at a 1 inch group. I have attached the picture. I also shot it at 200 and 300. The 200 yard spread was about ~5 inches. At 300 yards, it was dropping about 15 inches (which is right at what the ballistic table say). It was about a ~12 inch group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you use commercial loaded cartridges or handloaded yourself?

If commercial, which type?

[sailor 6]

jrmock - I fully agree on the 200 yard ZERO, as the rise at 100 yds is minor, and leaves a reasonable drop at 300 yards to compensate for. Why the interest in 100 yard zero I don't know. Even with irons (and really old eyes), 200 yard sighting is no problem - 300 is another matter, though. Long, long ago, as the story goes, I qualifed as expert at El Toro Marine Base with the M1 Garand (right out of the ships armory, nothing special)- to 500 yards with iron sights - just couldn't do that today.

[jrmock 7]

I was resighting my rifle on Saturday afternoon. I had decided to switch my scoped zero from 100 yards to 200 yards (4.5X scope). Therefore I sighted it in at ~3.5 inches high at 100. This will give a zero at 200. I fired several groups at 100 before I get it where I wanted it. Then to finish at 100 I fired one more 5 shot group. The stars must have aligned or something because it is right at a 1 inch group. I have attached the picture. I also shot it at 200 and 300. The 200 yard spread was about ~5 inches. At 300 yards, it was dropping about 15 inches (which is right at what the ballistic table say). It was about a ~12 inch group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you use commercial loaded cartridges or handloaded yourself?

If commercial, which type?

 

 

I used Brown Bear HP ammo. It is the standard 123 gr round with the tiny little hollow point. Seems accurate. The range I was shooting at does not let you use FMJ.

[Alloy Snake 0]

Very impressive grouping,Thats bolt gun accuraccy from a Saiga-Gotta love it!

[Rhodes1968 1,638]

100 yd zero is used because that's the longest most ranges have available. Irons zeroed for 25m at battle settling and 100m(yds) for setting 1 should also be zeroed for 200m due to the drop compensation in the rsb. one of the nice things about keeping that rsb functional if you change rear sights. The krebs aperture does that for instance while the mojo does not.

[ae13291 3]

I was resighting my rifle on Saturday afternoon. I had decided to switch my scoped zero from 100 yards to 200 yards (4.5X scope). Therefore I sighted it in at ~3.5 inches high at 100. This will give a zero at 200. I fired several groups at 100 before I get it where I wanted it. Then to finish at 100 I fired one more 5 shot group. The stars must have aligned or something because it is right at a 1 inch group. I have attached the picture. I also shot it at 200 and 300. The 200 yard spread was about ~5 inches. At 300 yards, it was dropping about 15 inches (which is right at what the ballistic table say). It was about a ~12 inch group.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Did you use commercial loaded cartridges or handloaded yourself?

If commercial, which type?

 

 

I used Brown Bear HP ammo. It is the standard 123 gr round with the tiny little hollow point. Seems accurate. The range I was shooting at does not let you use FMJ.

 

 

does that brown bear ammo have a magnetic tip?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Wolf, and Wolf Military classic all have a bi-metal core. I have cut bullets of all four brands in 7.62x39 and Silver Bear in 5.45x39 in half. They will all stick to a magnet. The steel is used not to give it armor penetrating capability, it is actually soft steel used because it is cheaper to use than lead. If your range does not understand that, find a new one. That rule is absolutely ridiculous. I understand you live in California, but the absurd prices you will be subjected to trying to buy non-russian/east bloc ammo are absolutely ridiculous and will be well worth whatever drive you may have to take for a different range.

[denden 16]

By me there is an indoor range that has no problem with FMJ, but all ammo gets the magnet screening. And there is an outdoor range that bans FMJ but doesn't mind bi-metal ammo. I guess the indoor is worried about damage to their backstop, and the outdoor is worried about ricochets leaving the range. So I buy my ammo based on what range I intend to visit.

[BrutalGardener 205]

Are you sure that this was at 100 yards and not 100 feet? This looks like a group that Saigas typically get at 25 yards.

[ae13291 3]

Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Wolf, and Wolf Military classic all have a bi-metal core. I have cut bullets of all four brands in 7.62x39 and Silver Bear in 5.45x39 in half. They will all stick to a magnet. The steel is used not to give it armor penetrating capability, it is actually soft steel used because it is cheaper to use than lead. If your range does not understand that, find a new one. That rule is absolutely ridiculous. I understand you live in California, but the absurd prices you will be subjected to trying to buy non-russian/east bloc ammo are absolutely ridiculous and will be well worth whatever drive you may have to take for a different range.

 

yea i know my local range does not let me shoot magnetic tip ammo. i guess there not going to bother to check what is bi metal and what is FMJ so they just banned magnetic ammo. i now go 40 miles north to my other house and shoot at a near by area

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Wolf, and Wolf Military classic all have a bi-metal core. I have cut bullets of all four brands in 7.62x39 and Silver Bear in 5.45x39 in half. They will all stick to a magnet. The steel is used not to give it armor penetrating capability, it is actually soft steel used because it is cheaper to use than lead. If your range does not understand that, find a new one. That rule is absolutely ridiculous. I understand you live in California, but the absurd prices you will be subjected to trying to buy non-russian/east bloc ammo are absolutely ridiculous and will be well worth whatever drive you may have to take for a different range.

 

yea i know my local range does not let me shoot magnetic tip ammo. i guess there not going to bother to check what is bi metal and what is FMJ so they just banned magnetic ammo. i now go 40 miles north to my other house and shoot at a near by area

 

Yeah, best off to just go to a different range. Your other range basically banned AKs by saying no magnetic ammo. Let those other fags enjoy their stupid monster man grip AR's.

[ae13291 3]

Brown Bear, Silver Bear, Wolf, and Wolf Military classic all have a bi-metal core. I have cut bullets of all four brands in 7.62x39 and Silver Bear in 5.45x39 in half. They will all stick to a magnet. The steel is used not to give it armor penetrating capability, it is actually soft steel used because it is cheaper to use than lead. If your range does not understand that, find a new one. That rule is absolutely ridiculous. I understand you live in California, but the absurd prices you will be subjected to trying to buy non-russian/east bloc ammo are absolutely ridiculous and will be well worth whatever drive you may have to take for a different range.

 

yea i know my local range does not let me shoot magnetic tip ammo. i guess there not going to bother to check what is bi metal and what is FMJ so they just banned magnetic ammo. i now go 40 miles north to my other house and shoot at a near by area

 

Yeah, best off to just go to a different range. Your other range basically banned AKs by saying no magnetic ammo. Let those other fags enjoy their stupid monster man grip AR's.

 

 

yea pretty much they tried to sell me 7.62X39 ammo for $20 for 20 rounds

[jrmock 7]

Are you sure that this was at 100 yards and not 100 feet? This looks like a group that Saigas typically get at 25 yards.

 

Where is the trust??? Yes it was 100 yards. But it was fired from the bench, with the rifle supported by sand bags and the mag. With a 4.5X scope and taking my time. The way the range is laid out, there is no crosswind in the 100 yard area so it was fairly calm.

[BrutalGardener 205]

Are you sure that this was at 100 yards and not 100 feet? This looks like a group that Saigas typically get at 25 yards.

 

Where is the trust??? Yes it was 100 yards. But it was fired from the bench, with the rifle supported by sand bags and the mag. With a 4.5X scope and taking my time. The way the range is laid out, there is no crosswind in the 100 yard area so it was fairly calm.

 

I was excited a few weeks ago, when I shot a sub 2.5 MOA, 6 round group, using iron sights and shooting Brown Bear HPs. The rifle was supported by one bench rest. I supposed that using a scope, high quality brass ammo, and more solid support, I could maybe do 1.75 MOA, but 1 MOA seemed ridiculous. I mean, I've ran into some people on this forum, who even refuse to believe that people like me are able to shoot sub 2.5 MOA group with their Saiga 7.62x39's.

 

Any way, congratulations on getting an exceptionally accurate Saiga.

Edited February 24, 2010 by SpetsnazGRU

[veprk 12]

Generally you want to shoot 5 or more groupings to determine MOA. Your looking for repeatability. 2.5 is good for a 47

[my762buzz 141]

Are you sure that this was at 100 yards and not 100 feet? This looks like a group that Saigas typically get at 25 yards.

 

Where is the trust??? Yes it was 100 yards. But it was fired from the bench, with the rifle supported by sand bags and the mag. With a 4.5X scope and taking my time. The way the range is laid out, there is no crosswind in the 100 yard area so it was fairly calm.

 

I was excited a few weeks ago, when I shot a sub 2.5 MOA, 6 round group, using iron sights and shooting Brown Bear HPs. The rifle was supported by one bench rest. I supposed that using a scope, high quality brass ammo, and more solid support, I could maybe do 1.75 MOA, but 1 MOA seemed ridiculous. I mean, I've ran into some people on this forum, who even refuse to believe that people like me are able to shoot sub 2.5 MOA group with their Saiga 7.62x39's.

 

Any way, congratulations on getting an exceptionally accurate Saiga.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48771&st=0&p=452778&fromsearch=1entry452778

Read the link above. The next time I head out to a rifle range I am going to use a scope mount that is actually tightened.

The last time I went my mount was loose, my hands were numb from the cold, and my saiga was not even settled in with some fouling shots.

The first 3 shots were spread apart closer to an inch. At 5 shots, all were were 1.5 MOA. I think the limiting factors preventing people

from seeing their rifle's true potential are not scoping, no sandbags/rest, inconsistent ammo, firing off too quickly back to back shots

instead of spacing at intervals to allow proper cooling of the barrel, inproper breathing technique when pulling the trigger, squeezing

the trigger rather than yanking it, and of course gripping the gun on a bench in a way to prevent it from slightly moving when pulling the trigger.

I remember reading a long time ago that a 100th of an inch difference where your gun is translates to 1 inch difference at 100 yards.

If the gun is not kept perfectly still during an evaluation, its no longer an evaluation of the gun, but it becomes how inaccurate the shooter is.

[BrutalGardener 205]

Are you sure that this was at 100 yards and not 100 feet? This looks like a group that Saigas typically get at 25 yards.

 

Where is the trust??? Yes it was 100 yards. But it was fired from the bench, with the rifle supported by sand bags and the mag. With a 4.5X scope and taking my time. The way the range is laid out, there is no crosswind in the 100 yard area so it was fairly calm.

 

I was excited a few weeks ago, when I shot a sub 2.5 MOA, 6 round group, using iron sights and shooting Brown Bear HPs. The rifle was supported by one bench rest. I supposed that using a scope, high quality brass ammo, and more solid support, I could maybe do 1.75 MOA, but 1 MOA seemed ridiculous. I mean, I've ran into some people on this forum, who even refuse to believe that people like me are able to shoot sub 2.5 MOA group with their Saiga 7.62x39's.

 

Any way, congratulations on getting an exceptionally accurate Saiga.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48771&st=0&p=452778&fromsearch=1entry452778

Read the link above. The next time I head out to a rifle range I am going to use a scope mount that is actually tightened.

The last time I went my mount was loose, my hands were numb from the cold, and my saiga was not even settled in with some fouling shots.

The first 3 shots were spread apart closer to an inch. At 5 shots, all were were 1.5 MOA. I think the limiting factors preventing people

from seeing their rifle's true potential are not scoping, no sandbags/rest, inconsistent ammo, firing off too quickly back to back shots

instead of spacing at intervals to allow proper cooling of the barrel, inproper breathing technique when pulling the trigger, squeezing

the trigger rather than yanking it, and of course gripping the gun on a bench in a way to prevent it from slightly moving when pulling the trigger.

I remember reading a long time ago that a 100th of an inch difference where your gun is translates to 1 inch difference at 100 yards.

If the gun is not kept perfectly still during an evaluation, its no longer an evaluation of the gun, but it becomes how inaccurate the shooter is.

 

This is my group. By the way, my hands were also freezing when I made it. Brown Bear HPs. How long of an interval between shots do you suggest for proper barrel cooling?

[thehun 20]

im so happy that i live in missouri..no stupid ammo laws at the ranges here

[abra-cadaver 3]

I was resighting my rifle on Saturday afternoon. I had decided to switch my scoped zero from 100 yards to 200 yards (4.5X scope). Therefore I sighted it in at ~3.5 inches high at 100. This will give a zero at 200. I fired several groups at 100 before I get it where I wanted it. Then to finish at 100 I fired one more 5 shot group. The stars must have aligned or something because it is right at a 1 inch group. I have attached the picture. I also shot it at 200 and 300. The 200 yard spread was about ~5 inches. At 300 yards, it was dropping about 15 inches (which is right at what the ballistic table say). It was about a ~12 inch group.

This was at Garland Public Shooting range? I shoot there too, as I live within spiting distance from that joint. The no fmj rule is pretty lame, but sp and hp bear and wolf ammo isn't alot more. I was talkin to a range operater once about that rule, they told me its because someone did fire a shot off the range. The shooter was an idiot and shot over the backstop in an arc but fmj rounds were blamed.

[jrmock 7]

This was at Eagle Peak just northwest of Austin.

 

I had fired about ~10 shots prior to this group on two other targets to get the sighting the way I wanted it. I did not really try to group well so I can't say how much it changed. But for this 5 rounds, I switched to my last target and really tried to hold steady. My rifle was rested on a sand bag and my shoulder. I made sure my body was comfortable how I was sitting and that my posture helped lock in the rear of the rifle. I then took three or four slow breaths. On the last breath I released about half of it then held the reticle in the center of the target. I then slowly squeezed the trigger. Between shots I checked it with a spotting scope. So it probably took my 2 minutes to shoot that group. This is as good as I can do. So I think this is a pretty fair estimate of the capability of this rifle. It is probably a 1-1.5 MOA gun.

[my762buzz 141]

Are you sure that this was at 100 yards and not 100 feet? This looks like a group that Saigas typically get at 25 yards.

 

Where is the trust??? Yes it was 100 yards. But it was fired from the bench, with the rifle supported by sand bags and the mag. With a 4.5X scope and taking my time. The way the range is laid out, there is no crosswind in the 100 yard area so it was fairly calm.

 

I was excited a few weeks ago, when I shot a sub 2.5 MOA, 6 round group, using iron sights and shooting Brown Bear HPs. The rifle was supported by one bench rest. I supposed that using a scope, high quality brass ammo, and more solid support, I could maybe do 1.75 MOA, but 1 MOA seemed ridiculous. I mean, I've ran into some people on this forum, who even refuse to believe that people like me are able to shoot sub 2.5 MOA group with their Saiga 7.62x39's.

 

Any way, congratulations on getting an exceptionally accurate Saiga.

 

http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=48771&st=0&p=452778&fromsearch=1entry452778

Read the link above. The next time I head out to a rifle range I am going to use a scope mount that is actually tightened.

The last time I went my mount was loose, my hands were numb from the cold, and my saiga was not even settled in with some fouling shots.

The first 3 shots were spread apart closer to an inch. At 5 shots, all were were 1.5 MOA. I think the limiting factors preventing people

from seeing their rifle's true potential are not scoping, no sandbags/rest, inconsistent ammo, firing off too quickly back to back shots

instead of spacing at intervals to allow proper cooling of the barrel, inproper breathing technique when pulling the trigger, squeezing

the trigger rather than yanking it, and of course gripping the gun on a bench in a way to prevent it from slightly moving when pulling the trigger.

I remember reading a long time ago that a 100th of an inch difference where your gun is translates to 1 inch difference at 100 yards.

If the gun is not kept perfectly still during an evaluation, its no longer an evaluation of the gun, but it becomes how inaccurate the shooter is.

 

This is my group. By the way, my hands were also freezing when I made it. Brown Bear HPs. How long of an interval between shots do you suggest for proper barrel cooling?

 

I would suggest a scope mount, 10 or more magnification scope, sand bags/rest, space the shots 5 minutes apart starting with a cool barrel but do a few fouling shots

earlier on. Another thing is keeping the handguard exactly the same way on the rest/bags each time. The military surplus style handguards tend to have too much ability

to change their pressure point/s against the barrel and this will move the point of impact. The saiga factory handguard is purposely made to rest on the barrel alignment pin but this is not the case with the arsenal SGL. You might even try resting your gun directly on the front receiver rather than the handguard as this could keep all posible variable pressure off the barrel. Also never let anything touch the barrel when you shoot as this can have an effect too. I seen someone laying his hand on his gun

on a bench and his groups in a remington rifle were 8-12 inches until he stopped that practice.