eric1785 15 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Everywhere i look all you can find is 3a or less? Why is that? Can you buy a 3a and reinforce it with k49 kevlar to "upgrade" its capability? Who all on here has/wears/uses armor? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 Everywhere i look all you can find is 3a or less? Why is that? Can you buy a 3a and reinforce it with k49 kevlar to "upgrade" its capability? Who all on here has/wears/uses armor? 3A is plenty good. If you want to withstand rifle shots, you need a vest that will also take rifle plates. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 If you have the money look into the Dragon Skin armor sold by Pinnacle Armor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 If you have the money look into the Dragon Skin armor sold by Pinnacle Armor. Dragon Skin is SHIT. "More troubling to Army testers was the near complete delamination of the disks from the Kevlar backing within the Dragon Skin on several of the environmental tests. After being subjected to 160-degree heat for six hours, the Dragon Skin vest failed on the first shot. X-ray photos of the vest show the disks slipped off their backing, exposing portions of the chest area without any ceramic protection." "But 160 degrees is unrealistic." Stupid fucks it gets 120 degrees in the fucking shade in Iraq. I wonder how hot it gets if its under direct sunlight. My M4 was hot enough to BLISTER SKIN so we ware gloves. Dragon Fail "Pinnacle's president Murray Neal told Military.com the tests were flawed and that Army testers were unsure how to adequately evaluate his technology - which uses a series of small ceramic disk "scales" to cover the entire torso. He called Army claims that his vests failed "a bold-faced lie" and said the service is embarrassed to admit its current armor isn't the best out there." "Perhaps the biggest Army concern is Dragon Skin's weight. An extra large vest is nearly 20 pounds heavier than the Army's current armor, though Masters admitted it did have more rifle protective coverage than issued vests." Yeah just what I need, turn 40lbs of vest into 60lbe of shitty vest you got to be kidding me. Murray Neal is a dirty little piss ant that complained to congress after NIJ removed his ballistic rating. NIJ re-tested as well as the Military and Dragon Skin FAILED again. So what does the little piss ant do? "On August 20, 2007 at the United States Test Laboratory in Wichita, Kansas, nine Dragon Skin SOV-2000 (Level III) body armor panels were retested, for the purpose of validating Pinnacle Armor's six year warranty. The panels tested were between 5.75 years old to 6.6 years old. All items met the NIJ Level III ballistic protection, confirming Pinnacle Armor's six-year warranty for full ballistic protection. Pinnacle resubmitted the SOV-2000 vest to the NIJ for certification based on this successful testing, but this application was rejected because the test had not been properly documented. As of November 2007, Pinnacle is suing to force the NIJ to recertify the SOV-2000 vest." United States Test Laboratory in Wichita tested the Dragon Skin the way Murray Neal stipulates in his warranty and NOT to NIJ standards. He fucking sues NIJ for not testing Dragon Skin to HIS requirements. You got to be fucking kidding me! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Jpanzer 1,265 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I've seen some Israeli ceramic plates on Ebay, supposedly Level III. I've often wondered about the quality of these plates and whether they are legit... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted February 25, 2010 Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 (edited) Get an Eagle Carrier (same as in my AVI pic) Level IV Stand Alone $310/ea Edited February 25, 2010 by KrisFox Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eric1785 15 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 I dont think they sell dragon skin to public, beside its probably 2k lol. Man its hard to find good body armor Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eric1785 15 Posted February 25, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2010 What does the military currently use? Do they make material vest in 3 or 4 or is it just 3a with plates? Id want something with front,back, and both sides. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 The potential for Gecko45 jokes in this thread is amazing...... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krom 36 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 I went with LIII steel plates, I got mine at expertguns. They will stop anything short of 30-06 with multi hit capability. A little heavier than my old interceptor was but I like that I can't crack my plates and ruin um. I got a deal on my stuff (they just increased their prices ~2months ago). 2 plates and an eagle carrier for $279.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eric1785 15 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 The potential for Gecko45 jokes in this thread is amazing...... huh? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
loki0629 55 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 The potential for Gecko45 jokes in this thread is amazing...... huh? Eric that's a reference to the original mall ninja. Krisfox, I have no dog in the dragon skin fight and it seems that you have some issues with the manufacturer. That aside, Col. Hackworth's advocacy group (Soldiers For The Truth) also believed that the ballistic armor tests were skewed against Pinnacle and they published all the documents supporting their claims on their website. I don't know if you know who Hack was but I trusted him. And until the Army banned the use of Dragon Skin, it was used by Army generals and their PSD's, spec ops, and all the usual alphabet groups that had money to spend. As far as I know, those groups that aren't required to follow Army directives are still using it. Also, Karl Masters was the product manager for Interceptor so I take his statements with a grain of salt. Hmmm...just tried to check the sftt.org website and it's down. Well, if it ever comes back up it makes for some good reading. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KrisFox 69 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 The potential for Gecko45 jokes in this thread is amazing...... huh? Eric that's a reference to the original mall ninja. Krisfox, I have no dog in the dragon skin fight and it seems that you have some issues with the manufacturer. That aside, Col. Hackworth's advocacy group (Soldiers For The Truth) also believed that the ballistic armor tests were skewed against Pinnacle and they published all the documents supporting their claims on their website. I don't know if you know who Hack was but I trusted him. And until the Army banned the use of Dragon Skin, it was used by Army generals and their PSD's, spec ops, and all the usual alphabet groups that had money to spend. As far as I know, those groups that aren't required to follow Army directives are still using it. Also, Karl Masters was the product manager for Interceptor so I take his statements with a grain of salt. Hmmm...just tried to check the sftt.org website and it's down. Well, if it ever comes back up it makes for some good reading. Hmmmm... Crayola version for the Marine. 20 lbs heavier, proven to fail when exposed to high desert temperatures, offers only marginally better coverage when compared to the IBA (Assuming it actually works as MFR claims), and costs twice as much. Also new boron-carbide plates are 30% lighter than E-SAPI, level IV stand alone protection, and are currently being evaluated by DOD as a replacement for current plates. Even if Dragon Skin were in use right now it would be getting replaced. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eric1785 15 Posted February 26, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 I cannot find a level 3 tactical vest with front,back, and side anywhere!!! All ive found is a nice carrier thats multicam but only holds plates:( Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted February 26, 2010 Report Share Posted February 26, 2010 I cannot find a level 3 tactical vest with front,back, and side anywhere!!! All ive found is a nice carrier thats multicam but only holds plates:( Where did you find that? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eric1785 15 Posted February 27, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 At cheaper then dirt, you could get it in a few other colors and about 20 dollars cheaper. I think it was called a operators vest, had molle straps on it also. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Gunfanatic 221 Posted February 27, 2010 Report Share Posted February 27, 2010 (edited) Just curious Eric but did you check your local laws on owning body armor? Edited February 27, 2010 by Gun Fanatic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eric1785 15 Posted February 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 A little bit, i live in eastern wa, cant find anything on it, i know felons cant own it but nothing else as far as i know. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tover26 18 Posted February 28, 2010 Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 When I grabbed some level 2 armor from bulletproofme.com I found that calling and asking answered questions a whole lot faster than looking on the internet... where it's easy to get bogged down in technical specs. You can add level 3a and level 4 plates as standalone carriers for practically any configuration you want. However, if you're not actively deployed military, you'll probably want to configure your armor based on the required need. While it's easy to say, "I need the max protection", it's harder to imagine many scenarios as a civillian where you'll have time to don all that extra armor. I bought level 2 concealable with plate carriers. If money allows, I'll grab front and back rifle plates this year. As a note, they sell ballistic blankets that are level 3a... Remember that the 2, 3a, 3, and 4 designations are based on fragmentation, type of caliber, and velocity testing. As bulletproofme.com said to me, "What's the best kind of armor?" - Answer, the kind that you're wearing right now. I've worn armor while hiking, running errands, and even to work once to see if anyone would notice the extra bulk. No one did even though I was extremely self-conscious of it. Add rifle plates and an Interceptor shell... and that's a different story. Regardless of your state laws, going out in full battle dress with armor on will attract attention. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
eric1785 15 Posted February 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2010 Id just use it when i go shooting and wanted 3a with some pouches so i could take it out when i want. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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