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Building an AK105 Clone


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#1 justinmcmillion

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 08:48 PM

So instead of going with a US receiver I am going to buy a saiga 5.45 riffle.
Here are all the pictures Ive found of TRUE ak105 carbines;
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I have already purchased a true izhmash folder that is currently being used on the ak105 riffles this I believe is the 5.5 pin but I could be wrong, never the less it has A proof mark on the stock which is a huge plus!

http://www.gunbroker...?Item=159841391
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Found this it has the bulgarian gas block :/ a little different from the russian one But the bbl would be nice to have
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I did buy a SBR ak74 that was made by Wellco arms. and It has the correct ak100 series gas block on it
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I purchased the correct Front Gas block for this rifle and will be configuring it as an AIM AKR carbine
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So I will have a gas block when I do this.


This is how I would like to configure the gun for shooting
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Anyone that knows alot about these ak105's I could use all the info I can get, I want to make it as correct as possible.
Basically all the info I have is above.

Is there a difference between the bulgarian and russian hand guard retainers?
Does the ak105 take a 500 meter sight leaf? YES
Where do I find the correct trigger guard and reinforcement plate?
What other key elements am I missing?

And yes this is an NFA project I do know that before anyone jumps in and says it. It will be on a Form 1
as far as compliance parts i will use
PG
Hand guard
Tapco G2
Flash hider

I believe that's enough to use foreign mags, or maybe I'm thinking of the s12..

Thanks for any and all information.

Justin

Edited by JMac, 13 March 2010 - 01:38 PM.
Links to Non-Buisness members removed.


#2 superhawk138

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 09:09 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong but once it's NFA, 922r does not apply. Go for the build and keep us posted

#3 justinmcmillion

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 10:01 PM

Please correct me if I'm wrong but once it's NFA, 922r does not apply. Go for the build and keep us posted


that's interesting, never heard that. I don't see why 922 wouldn't apply though?

#4 Shandlanos

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 10:22 PM

Not true. A rifle is still a rifle even if it's an SBR. 922R doesn't apply to pistols.
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#5 Thumbhole

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 10:55 PM

Not true. A rifle is still a rifle even if it's an SBR. 922R doesn't apply to pistols.


It is WIDELY accepted that 922r does not apply to NFA items, so if you are right, MANY are wrong. I can't prove one way or the other, but it;s generally accepted that 922r does not apply.

ETA:
HERE is a decent thread on the subject. It seems that some new guy at the BATF contends that 922r DOES apply to NFA items. This is contradictory to previous ATF letters, but that's common practice for the thugs in charge of our 2A rights.

Edited by bigj480, 09 March 2010 - 11:41 PM.

The preceding post is a work of fiction.

#6 deletemyaccountplease

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 11:12 PM

I am currently trying to make a 104....the hardest parts are the GB/FSB(if you want russian) and the 500m rear sight...
Mate.Kill.Feed.Repeat.

-Buffet Destroyer "It was all a hoax. The AR can't fire more than one round without jamming. 900+ rounds is pure hollywoood.If it was an AK it would have lasted 1 billion rounds and saved a nun from a burning building!"

#7 Norty

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Posted 09 March 2010 - 11:13 PM

Something like this.....

[attachment=41456:sax39 003 (Medium).jpg]
The end comes no matter what, the only thing that matters is how do you wanna go out, on your feet or on your knees?

#8 justinmcmillion

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 11:02 AM

Something like this.....

[attachment=41456:sax39 003 (Medium).jpg]


I actually just bought the Bulgarian Arsenal slr-107cr (ak104) in 7.62x39

just want the 105 now 5.45x39, shame they dont make an slr-105cr... just 106 (.223) and 107 (7.62x39)

#9 justinmcmillion

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Posted 10 March 2010 - 11:04 AM

I am currently trying to make a 104....the hardest parts are the GB/FSB(if you want russian) and the 500m rear sight...


Yeah I havent seen a 500m sight for sell period.. Im hoping that the gas block on my ak74 is russian (its not, 3/14).. have to wait another 2-3 months to find out. The NFA wait is killing me.

Edited by JMac, 14 March 2010 - 05:07 AM.


#10 bigsal

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 12:22 AM

I was the bidder at $199 on that stock set before you used "buy it now".... I will hate you forever... :lolol:

#11 justinmcmillion

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 07:52 AM

I was the bidder at $199 on that stock set before you used "buy it now".... I will hate you forever... :lolol:


yeah on things that rare I just bite the bullet... I know where there's another if your interested pretty sure they want 300 for it as well
pm me if your interested

what were you planning on using it on?

#12 bigsal

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 02:31 PM


I was the bidder at $199 on that stock set before you used "buy it now".... I will hate you forever... :lolol:


yeah on things that rare I just bite the bullet... I know where there's another if your interested pretty sure they want 300 for it as well
pm me if your interested

what were you planning on using it on?


yeah I didn't want to pay above $199, I already have one installed on my 103 clone. The new one (which you won) was going to go on a 101 build. If I get really desperate I can always have one shipped from GB via Oleg, but his prices are a bit to high. Anyway good luck on the 105, let me know if you need any help.






:smoke:

#13 justinmcmillion

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 06:48 PM



I was the bidder at $199 on that stock set before you used "buy it now".... I will hate you forever... :lolol:


yeah on things that rare I just bite the bullet... I know where there's another if your interested pretty sure they want 300 for it as well
pm me if your interested

what were you planning on using it on?


yeah I didn't want to pay above $199, I already have one installed on my 103 clone. The new one (which you won) was going to go on a 101 build. If I get really desperate I can always have one shipped from GB via Oleg, but his prices are a bit to high. Anyway good luck on the 105, let me know if you need any help.






:smoke:


Any pics of the 103 clone?

Thanks for the lifeline, the only thing Im really looking for is the russian gasblock, found one and the guy only wants $800 for it and the rear 500m leaf :lolol: so.. thats not gonna work.. I think I have the 500m rear sight under control though..

btw found a izzy triangle 5.5 folder... want it bad! pricey though

#14 bigsal

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:20 PM




I was the bidder at $199 on that stock set before you used "buy it now".... I will hate you forever... :lolol:


yeah on things that rare I just bite the bullet... I know where there's another if your interested pretty sure they want 300 for it as well
pm me if your interested

what were you planning on using it on?


yeah I didn't want to pay above $199, I already have one installed on my 103 clone. The new one (which you won) was going to go on a 101 build. If I get really desperate I can always have one shipped from GB via Oleg, but his prices are a bit to high. Anyway good luck on the 105, let me know if you need any help.






:smoke:


Any pics of the 103 clone?

Thanks for the lifeline, the only thing Im really looking for is the russian gasblock, found one and the guy only wants $800 for it and the rear 500m leaf :lolol: so.. thats not gonna work.. I think I have the 500m rear sight under control though..

btw found a izzy triangle 5.5 folder... want it bad! pricey though



yeah heres my 103 clone:
http://forum.saiga-1...61

Not the most authentic, and like you I could not find the proper 100 series sight. My next step is to remove the english markings (where legal to do so) and get the thing looking like the real thing. I also am trying to find another 3-6 Izzy 100 series magazines, finding the one that I had pictured was EXTREMELY difficult!
BTW on yours you can probably get the gas block from tantal or from one of the guys on theakforum by posting a WTB. The Bulgarian block really is not what you want, but it might do in a pinch (I mean how authentic do you really need to be right!!!

Anyway please post pictures as your project progresses.

#15 deletemyaccountplease

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:25 PM

yeah what I was told about the real FSB/GB combo is that since its currently in service they will not sell outside Russia...I think anyone's best bet for the 500m sight it to have a smith take a sporter 300m sight and notch it for 500m and then refinish it to look real...I was quoted about the same for these items...I have a good job but not that good :D
Mate.Kill.Feed.Repeat.

-Buffet Destroyer "It was all a hoax. The AR can't fire more than one round without jamming. 900+ rounds is pure hollywoood.If it was an AK it would have lasted 1 billion rounds and saved a nun from a burning building!"

#16 bigsal

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Posted 11 March 2010 - 11:33 PM

yeah what I was told about the real FSB/GB combo is that since its currently in service they will not sell outside Russia...I think anyone's best bet for the 500m sight it to have a smith take a sporter 300m sight and notch it for 500m and then refinish it to look real...I was quoted about the same for these items...I have a good job but not that good :D


The Russians are happy to sell, the issue is with importing components from Russia that are not for "sporting" purposes.

As for refinishing the stock rear sight, I don't think Ive ever seen anyone accomplish this. Id like to see pics if anyone has had a decent outcome.

#17 justinmcmillion

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 09:45 AM





I was the bidder at $199 on that stock set before you used "buy it now".... I will hate you forever... :lolol:


yeah on things that rare I just bite the bullet... I know where there's another if your interested pretty sure they want 300 for it as well
pm me if your interested

what were you planning on using it on?


yeah I didn't want to pay above $199, I already have one installed on my 103 clone. The new one (which you won) was going to go on a 101 build. If I get really desperate I can always have one shipped from GB via Oleg, but his prices are a bit to high. Anyway good luck on the 105, let me know if you need any help.






:smoke:


Any pics of the 103 clone?

Thanks for the lifeline, the only thing Im really looking for is the russian gasblock, found one and the guy only wants $800 for it and the rear 500m leaf :lolol: so.. thats not gonna work.. I think I have the 500m rear sight under control though..

btw found a izzy triangle 5.5 folder... want it bad! pricey though



yeah heres my 103 clone:
http://forum.saiga-1...61

Not the most authentic, and like you I could not find the proper 100 series sight. My next step is to remove the english markings (where legal to do so) and get the thing looking like the real thing. I also am trying to find another 3-6 Izzy 100 series magazines, finding the one that I had pictured was EXTREMELY difficult!
BTW on yours you can probably get the gas block from tantal or from one of the guys on theakforum by posting a WTB. The Bulgarian block really is not what you want, but it might do in a pinch (I mean how authentic do you really need to be right!!!

Anyway please post pictures as your project progresses.



Thats a good looking rifle! Thinking about puting the izzy solid stock on my sgl 21, broke down and bought the triangle... Will absolutely post pics, but it will be a while before I finish this...

yeah what I was told about the real FSB/GB combo is that since its currently in service they will not sell outside Russia...I think anyone's best bet for the 500m sight it to have a smith take a sporter 300m sight and notch it for 500m and then refinish it to look real...I was quoted about the same for these items...I have a good job but not that good :D


I heard the same about not exporting, this is the current model used by the spetsnaz. That is what I plan on doing with my leaf.

#18 justinmcmillion

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 10:04 AM

Should I use a SGL-31 or a saiga 5.45?

SGL-31

Pros;
Russian receiver, Handguard retainer notch, correct trigger guard installed, comes with gas tube/upper Hg, lower handguard, Could sell parts and recover cost (front sight w 24mm threads, flash hider, rear 1000 meter leaf, nato stock)
Cons;
No reinforcement plate for PG, High initial price, more receiver markings that need be removed,

Saiga 5.45

Pros;
Russian receiver, Cheap, very few receiver markings in an easy to get to location, has 300m sight that I can have made into a 500m(hopefully).
Cons;
No HG retainer notch, installation of a trigger guard, holes to be welded (no biggie but Ill still know its there), need to find a gas tube and proper furniture, BHO (do the 105's have this? pretty sure they dont)


What am I missing? Which would be the better route? At the present moment I plan on going with the saiga unless someone convinces me otherwise..

Also Ive searched a bajillion times for the ak100 series stock installation instructions on here and Ive seen like 2-3 write ups at least on it but just cant seem to find them again.. any links?

Edited by JMac, 12 March 2010 - 10:06 AM.


#19 justinmcmillion

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Posted 12 March 2010 - 12:46 PM

Got the below info from a site I cant post because they aren't a contributor..
I need some comparison pictures? Ive owned many ak's but have never payed attention to things like the style of locking lever for gas tube....

The mag catch has rectangular dimple not Bulge oval dimple
Rifle has early style AK-105 double dimple trigger guard / selector stop plate.
Receiver has double trigger bumps.
Selector lever has 12-4 clocking reform, unlike std 74' 12-6 clocking.
Gas tube locking lever is 100 series "stamped" type.
receiver cover is smooth type with reforms on the bottom edges.
Faux " bump start" 4th rivet on LH side of receiver in bbl trunnion rivet area.

#20 justinmcmillion

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Posted 13 March 2010 - 11:41 AM

There is a difference between the AKSU krink Flash Hiders and the AK100 series

Posted Image

On Left aksu on right ak100 series

I found one of these and hopefully will be getting it..

Edited by JMac, 13 March 2010 - 01:37 PM.


#21 justinmcmillion

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 05:04 AM

Just got an awesome picture of the correct Russian front gas block/sight

Posted Image

This one sold on gb.com for $500 a couple months ago :cryss:

#22 Deussne

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Posted 14 March 2010 - 07:30 AM

WOW. Thats pricey. I always love the way that FSGB looks so Im constantly on a look out for them. However I have not had much luck finding them.
I just noticed the two dimples that were drilled out right in a middle of a block... Whoa Our Saigas are pretty close in construction to these guys then.

Edited by Deussne, 14 March 2010 - 07:31 AM.


#23 justinmcmillion

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 03:08 PM

Just a little update guys, went to my FFL and picked up my SLR-107CR so now I have a bulgy (ak104) to get a little better idea from. It has the 500m rear sight on it and the fs/gb combo although they are Bulgarian.
Posted Image

Ive got (2) 5.5mm stock sets one polymer one steel triangle both Russian with hardware.
Posted Image
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Also picked up the correct rear sight
This picture show the difference between the Russian 1000m sight and the 500m one
Posted Image
This one shows the difference between Russian (left) and Bulgarian (right)
Posted Image

And the correct Russian flash hider
This shows the difference between the Bulgarian (top) and Russian (bottom) FHs (the one on the SLR is just to cover up the bbl and is US made)
Posted Image

Next step pick up an Arsenal SGL31 and start the build!

Edited by JMac, 25 March 2010 - 03:09 PM.


#24 BobAsh

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 03:55 PM

Cool project.
Posted Image
The Number One name in Saiga conversion

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#25 justinmcmillion

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 08:32 PM

Cool project.


Thanks, cant wait for the final product, the only thing Im really missing is the correct russian gas block, all I have is a Bulgarian one, well I can buy one but Im not sure its worth the $ at $800....

#26 deletemyaccountplease

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Posted 25 March 2010 - 09:53 PM


Cool project.


Thanks, cant wait for the final product, the only thing Im really missing is the correct russian gas block, all I have is a Bulgarian one, well I can buy one but Im not sure its worth the $ at $800....

no shit!!!....I ran into the same problem with my 104 build :cryss:
Mate.Kill.Feed.Repeat.

-Buffet Destroyer "It was all a hoax. The AR can't fire more than one round without jamming. 900+ rounds is pure hollywoood.If it was an AK it would have lasted 1 billion rounds and saved a nun from a burning building!"

#27 ThirtyCal

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 12:00 AM



Cool project.


Thanks, cant wait for the final product, the only thing Im really missing is the correct russian gas block, all I have is a Bulgarian one, well I can buy one but Im not sure its worth the $ at $800....

no shit!!!....I ran into the same problem with my 104 build :cryss:


Same here. I'm just going with a Bulgy:

Posted Image

I admit I'd like to use a real Russian combo block, but not only is it crazy expensive, it's alot more work - you have to pull the barrel, reprofile it on a lathe, plug the existing gas hole, and drill a new one, then push the barrel back in. Pushing the barrel out with the front trunnion in place is a pain.


By the way, I don't think that 500m site leaf pictured here is Russian... I believe it's Bulgarian:

http://i24.photobuck...on/SANY0380.jpg


Here's a real Russian:

Posted Image

I gotta get off my arse and do my -105 conversion too. I'm using an SGL31. Hey let's all do it together:

Posted Image

-Thirtycal

Edited by ThirtyCal, 26 March 2010 - 12:10 AM.


#28 justinmcmillion

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 04:17 PM

It could be Bulgarian but all the Bulgy ones Ive seen have the D on them instead of the U (actually a russian letter that is the equivalent to the english P which stands for "Program")

I have one of the saiga 123 sights that I can use, but I thought the 105 sights were shorter?

Thanks for the input because I want this project to be as correct as possible and that is why Im posting it so all of you that know more about this than me can say "hey that's not right!"

#29 SN13

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Posted 26 March 2010 - 04:38 PM

The hardest part of an AK-105 clone is that 3rd select position. :)
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#30 bigsal

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 03:05 AM

There is a 105 parts kit over at theakforum here:

http://www.theakforu...hp?f=27&t=97897

I am suprised you guys haven't picked it up. 1k is small change for all the parts hes offering. I have bought items from the seller before, hes a great guy to deal with.



:smoke:




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