Short Gas System S-12 Operation Issues

[Paulyski 2,227]

 

Now I need to do some barrel work to the area in front of where the gas block sits to make getting it on easier. The diameter was never change so I would have to start beating it on about 5" from where it sits.

 

A strip of fine grit emery cloth or fine sand paper should do ya right.

It won't take much off & it's harder to get carried away.

 

Times like these are when hydraulic presses are great.

[Boba Debt 350]

I was able to get my gun back together, it was easier then I thought. When I removed the gas block I could see that the gas plug retention pin was damaged when Alex or Fred reassembled the gun. I removed the burrs and put a slight taper on one end to make it work better with the Gunfixers plug. Then I test fired it.

 

 

100% RELIABILITY HAS BEEN ACHIEVED

 

 

I had no issues with three 12 round magazines of #8 Federal Value Pack with my Gunfixers plug set to 3.

 

I set my plug to 2 and had a couple issues with 00 buck, so I set it to 3 and had no issues with a full mag.

 

Tomorrow I will see how it does with the original gas plug, if it has similar issues I will open up the #2 slot on my Gunfixers plug

[Joe Blasco 1]

Kudos for presenting this very informative "lesson" online to you and all members who helped with your saiga. I don't think you are going to need any more "Alexes" from now on...

[Paulyski 2,227]

You have three goddamn ports...one large and two small, one centered and two angled at the edge of the gas block. We drilled all three the same size, then took the gun apart and redrilled the center until until the fucking gun cycled. We do the same fucking thing every fucking time because it fucking works.

 

If this is what you found when removing the Gas Block....

 

 

 

And the larger holes that you drilled in this pic are from a 3/32 bit....

 

 

I'd say you had a valid point earlier.

 

As for your current issues with high brass, like I stated in a PM, your shorter barrel with the vents in it will require larger porting to cycle as reliably as a 19" with 3 proper ports, as you have less time for the gas to expand before exiting the barrel. More porting will let gas in faster to make up for the difference in barrel length.

 

Same as a 22" gun having 2 ports & a 19" gun needing 3 to do the same thing.

Less barrel after the ports means larger ports are needed.

 

You're getting there.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Paulyski

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

I was able to get my gun back together, it was easier then I thought. When I removed the gas block I could see that the gas plug retention pin was damaged when Alex or Fred reassembled the gun. I removed the burrs and put a slight taper on one end to make it work better with the Gunfixers plug. Then I test fired it.

 

 

100% RELIABILITY HAS BEEN ACHIEVED

 

 

I had no issues with three 12 round magazines of #8 Federal Value Pack with my Gunfixers plug set to 3.

 

I set my plug to 2 and had a couple issues with 00 buck, so I set it to 3 and had no issues with a full mag.

 

Tomorrow I will see how it does with the original gas plug, if it has similar issues I will open up the #2 slot on my Gunfixers plug

I wouldn't call that 100% but it's getting closer...

What you are planning with the gas plug is just another bandaid....to get it working better, you need to [edit...what I would do is]...take the gas block back off again and add a fourth port. Don't mess with the Gunfixer's adjustable plug. The whole point of it having those three different sized openings is so you can adjust it up or down for different loads, or for gas problems like you are having.

If it was running like it's supposed to, you wouldn't need to set it on 3 to cycle 00 buck. You still need to address the friction issues in the FCG and bolt & carrier. If I were you I would do would have done that FIRST. It's easy to see in your pics though, that the gas block was way off line with the ports, just like many new guns coming in from Russia.

 

[Boba Debt 350]

..... It's easy to see in your pics though, that the gas block was way off line with the ports, just like many new guns coming in from Russia.

 

 

 

So my comment to Alex about getting my own version of a "vodka special" was more accurate that I thought.

 

 

The spacing on the holes will not allow me to drill a 4th hole.

 

The Gunfixers plug all but covers up one of the holes in the #2 setting, I think the original gas plug will cycle 00 buck with out any issues.

 

I just don't have the time to test it today

Edited April 13, 2010 by Boba Debt

[Cobra 76 two 2,677]

If there's no room to add even a smaller 4th port, there are other options. Depending on how the ports line up with the opening in the bottom of the gas block, you may be able to enlarge that hole some to get more gas, and one or more of your existing ports could still be enlarged if needed. If that over gasses it some, you can still tame it some with the Gunfixr' plug. Still though, until you have eliminated all the friction / drag possible, in the moving parts, there's still room for more improvement.

Try running the factory plug with factory puck, set on #1....see how it does with the Federal bulk / value pak ...wtf ever ...and 00 buck on that #1 setting. It should run fine with the high brass on the #1 setting (or at least #2 on the gunfixr plug)...and if anything the low brass might need to be set on #2. My 19" factory four port guns (with my modified bolts, carriers & FCGs) will run cheap low brass ammo on the #1 setting of the factory plug with factory puck. I would expect no less from a "race gun" with all that work done to it.

 

[going12220 125]

If there's no room to add even a smaller 4th port, there are other options. Depending on how the ports line up with the opening in the bottom of the gas block, you may be able to enlarge that hole some to get more gas, and one or more of your existing ports could still be enlarged if needed. If that over gasses it some, you can still tame it some with the Gunfixr' plug. Still though, until you have eliminated all the friction / drag possible, in the moving parts, there's still room for more improvement.

Try running the factory plug with factory puck, set on #1....see how it does with the Federal bulk / value pak ...wtf ever ...and 00 buck on that #1 setting. It should run fine with the high brass on the #1 setting (or at least #2 on the gunfixr plug)...and if anything the low brass might need to be set on #2. My 19" factory four port guns (with my modified bolts, carriers & FCGs) will run cheap low brass ammo on the #1 setting of the factory plug with factory puck. I would expect no less from a "race gun" with all that work done to it.

Well Cobra you're right about that, the term "race gun" is largely over used as a reason to customize a gun well beyond any needed reason for competition. 1st requirement in a "race gun" is reliability (you can't win if you can't get it to go bang every time) if you're doing mods that adversely effect that you're not racing the gun to anything but the scrap heap. Other than the use of minimal power loads the requirements for a good race gun are very much the same as a good defensive weapon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racegun

Edited April 14, 2010 by going12220

[bobofett 0]

I am not trying to stir the pot at all but I feel for you man. I would have been pretty irritated by the entire mess. I know Fred and Alex personally and to be honest Alex is kind of an arrogant person and full of crap, Fred can be too but I think he has good intentions, Its funny all of the issues you encountered I had the same issue and I did exactly what you did with the hammer, funy thing is we have the same fire control as they referenced me to what they liked. the straight holes vs. 45 deg. yep

 

Cobra I think it was very good of you too help him out despite you not liking what he did to Alex. But Alex shouldnt have acted the way he did, I also parted ways from these guys for stupid one sided reasons, I didnt get a colorful message I just distanced myself from them, also I know other reputable people who have done the same.

 

glad to hear your gun is going, I know where you are at its a releif just to get through a mag. but dont give up now!