How many has your town lost?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I don't understand you? When did I say I like government regulation...or the government being in charge of anything, for that matter....

 

So basically. You agree, companies should just hire peons for 50 cents and hour and say tough shit. Cool. because there's no balance between employees and management, and someone is simply "mind numbed" because they expect that in return for their hard work, they enjoy a livable wage that can sustain a decent place to live, a car, and a couple hobbies on their days off. Gee, what entitlement.

 

I'm sure if Chang manages to crank out 2,031 mice today instead of 2,000 Microsoft will recognize that and maybe raise his salary. Yep. Any day now. Still waiting.

 

What is so hard to understand about the fundamentals of productivity? If you are the MOST productive employee an employer has, the boss will FEAR that you'll be LURED to the business across the street with higher pay. They will WANT to pay more because you're worth more. It's very simple - unless of course you look out at life through the guise that you're OWED. If the boss doesn't recognize you're worth more, then leave! If you really ARE worth more, it won't be hard to find a better paying job.

 

Fear you'll be lured away to what? The place across the street that closed up and moved to China?

 

How does your talking point even make sense....go work for the company, and work your ass off, and hopefully out of his good graces, the boss will decide to let you keep your job for $14 an hour instead of giving it to some guy in China for 50 cents an hour? Talk about mind numbed...you have a mirror?

 

That logic works with small businesses, small companies, yes. Entirely. I've worked for small business before. With good people, who appreciate it when you work hard and get your shit right, and either toss you more money, or some better hours, etc. in return. But we're not talking about small/medium/regular companies. We're talking about the bigwigs.

 

This isn't even including the fact that if you read the thread, a few people even said they live in rural towns and there IS no other job to go to when the bigwigs move their shit to China? But hey, I guess they're all just stupid liberals. They need to learn to shut up, and quit expecting to have a job that pays enough to pay the rent and car insurance. How dare they!

 

And I must say, the fact that you have such lack of civility is very sad. That you have no way to debate people without calling them names or personally insulting them. That's just not cool.

 

I don't even understand you. You're actually sitting here defending closing up American jobs to move them over to Chinese sweatshops?

Edited April 16, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[Paulyski 2,227]

I don't even understand you. You're actually sitting here defending closing up American jobs to move them over to Chinese sweatshops?

His pops used to run a furniture company & when they tried to unionize he closed shop instead. Bounce doesn't like unions very much.

 

 

Unfortunately the current method multinatonals are using is to lower the wage of said position throughout the industries, so if you're the most productive & you don't like your pay, you're more than welcome to go across the street, where the policy is to hire you for less of a wage than they would have hired you for 2 years ago.

 

This isn't only happening with handwork & mindless production. It's happening with highly skilled tradesman jobs too.

Let's try Ben Franklyn's chosen profession for one. It's a lot more complex now than it was then....

I would like to see any small business owner run an 840c printing press & produce the highest quality print work in the industry & work on the $3.5m press as a mechanic & electricion.

It simply ain't gonna happen. It's a career that one must master & it takes many many years to do this.

We're talking 10 years (at least) on 1 subject... Printing.

How many years do executives have to study their subjects?

If one dedicates 10 years of apprenticeship to an industry & they leave, now they have no skills in any other industry.

We call this "trapped in printing".

Edited April 16, 2010 by Paulyski

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

I don't even understand you. You're actually sitting here defending closing up American jobs to move them over to Chinese sweatshops?

His pops used to run a furniture company & when they tried to unionize he closed shop instead. Bounce doesn't like unions very much.

 

 

Unfortunately the current method multinatonals are using is to lower the wage of said position throughout the industries, so if you're the most productive & you don't like your pay, you're more than welcome to go across the street, where the policy is to hire you for less of a wage than they would have hired you for 2 years ago.

 

This isn't only happening with handwork & mindless production. It's happening with highly skilled tradesman jobs too.

Let's try Ben Franklyn's chosen profession for one. It's a lot more complex now than it was then....

I would like to see any small business owner run an 840c printing press & produce the highest quality print work in the industry & work on the $3.5m press as a mechanic & electricion.

It simply ain't gonna happen. It's a career that one must master & it takes many many years to do this.

We're talking 10 years (at least) on 1 subject... Printing.

How many years do executives have to study their subjects?

If one dedicates 10 years of apprenticeship to an industry & they leave, now they have no skills in any other industry.

We call this "trapped in printing".

 

Exactly!

[Bounce12 407]

I don't understand you? When did I say I like government regulation...or the government being in charge of anything, for that matter....

 

You didn't say you like it. Whether you "like" it or not is irrelevant. It's simply a fact. Government and unions have made it damn near impossible to hire an American in this day and age. Rather than see that, and direct your anger where it belongs - toward GOVERNMENT - you choose to blame the businessman. It's misguided as all hell because it's the businessman's job to get and remain PROFITABLE and PRODUCTIVE. It's NOT their duty to guarantee workers jobs or devote their existance to paying the government taxes.

 

So basically. You agree, companies should just hire peons for 50 cents and hour and say tough shit.

 

No, companies should hire workers for wages that are sustainable based on the workers' productivity. I'm not sure why this is such a difficult concept to understand.

 

 

Cool. because there's no balance between employees and management, and someone is simply "mind numbed" because they expect that in return for their hard work, they enjoy a livable wage that can sustain a decent place to live, a car, and a couple hobbies on their days off. Gee, what entitlement.

 

 

Again, you're missing the point. The place there is "NO BALANCE" is between the businessman and the obstacles laid in his path. Between government regulation, the unions and the taxes the businessman has to pay, for many businessmen there's no point in busting ass to keep a business running here.

 

It sucks to see the result of your war on business, doesn't it? You don't see a job opening across the street? Just see how much better things get over the next few years as 0bama's war on business progresses. Cheer his war on your boss all you want. Cheer as 0bama gets even with that worthless rich boss of yours. It's ok. Your poor neighbor will probably hire you if you lose your job.

 

 

I'm sure if Chang manages to crank out 2,031 mice today instead of 2,000 Microsoft will recognize that and maybe raise his salary. Yep. Any day now. Still waiting.

 

If you're so much smarter than your boss and your boss can't see that your talents are worth so much more, then by all means feel free to open your own business. That's what Bill did. Oops, but then you'd have to PUT UP AND SHUT UP wouldn't you. You might find that you're not worth so much after all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

What is so hard to understand about the fundamentals of productivity? If you are the MOST productive employee an employer has, the boss will FEAR that you'll be LURED to the business across the street with higher pay. They will WANT to pay more because you're worth more. It's very simple - unless of course you look out at life through the guise that you're OWED. If the boss doesn't recognize you're worth more, then leave! If you really ARE worth more, it won't be hard to find a better paying job.

 

Fear you'll be lured away to what? The place across the street that closed up and moved to China?

 

 

So, there are no more businesses left, huh? Cool, you can REALLY get rich by starting your own business. Want a high-paying job, create your own. I'm willing to bet you don't have the stones for it.

 

 

How does your talking point even make sense....go work for the company, and work your ass off, and hopefully out of his good graces, the boss will decide to let you keep your job for $14 an hour instead of giving it to some guy in China for 50 cents an hour? Talk about mind numbed...you have a mirror?

 

 

You read and read and read and STILL manage to miss everything I say. When did I say you have to depend on your boss' good graces? Hummmm??? Good graces have NOTHING to do with business. It's ALL about productivity and you STILL can't seem to grasp that.

 

That logic works with small businesses, small companies, yes. Entirely. I've worked for small business before. With good people, who appreciate it when you work hard and get your shit right, and either toss you more money, or some better hours, etc. in return. But we're not talking about small/medium/regular companies. We're talking about the bigwigs.

 

 

 

If I was a bigwig having to operate in this environment, I'd move too.

 

 

This isn't even including the fact that if you read the thread, a few people even said they live in rural towns and there IS no other job to go to when the bigwigs move their shit to China?

 

Here we go with the whining again. If there was NO JOB where I lived, I'd either start my own business OR I'D FUCKING MOVE. Funny how you can't even grasp those options. You'd rather sit back and whine that you're being fucked. How does the notion that you are OWED a high-paying job where you happen to choose to want to live enter into anything???

 

 

 

 

But hey, I guess they're all just stupid liberals.

 

 

Yeah, I'd say that about covers it.

 

I'm not sure why this part won't go into a quote box - maybe I've reached the nested limit.

They need to learn to shut up, and quit expecting to have a job that pays enough to pay the rent and car insurance. How dare they!

 

Yeah, that's exactly right. Nobody is owed a job. You're not OWED a car. You're not OWED a house. The businessman doesn't OWE YOU a damn thing.

 

 

I'm over the quote blocks max - Klassy said:

And I must say, the fact that you have such lack of civility is very sad. That you have no way to debate people without calling them names or personally insulting them. That's just not cool.

 

I don't even understand you. You're actually sitting here defending closing up American jobs to move them over to Chinese sweatshops?

 

Yup. Keep voting liberals into office and I'll keep defending the businessman's right to move the fuck away. Of course, you could fight for the cause of free enterprise and capitalism, but you'd have to drop your deeply felt sense of class envy. I don't know many liberals willing to give that up - not even for a high paying productive job.

 

As far as being civil goes... I'm past the point of civility where the future of this country is concerned. Wanna be a mindless liberal drone, fine. Don't expect me to give you a hug or a pat on the back. Your class-envy ideas are a divisive cancer on our society and they're resulting in the destruction of our economy. It doesn't take that much awareness to comprehend that when government makes it impossible to do business, business will leave. Yet for some reason, people like you can't seem to grasp it. Where do people like you come up with the notion that you're owed? How the hell did that virus make its way into your cranium?

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

You lambast people for blindly support a government that doesn't give a shit about them to take care of them, yet you think blindly supporting corporations who don't don't give a shit about people to take care of them makes sense.

 

"Debating" with you is truly pointless...I'm done....Everything with you is just extremes....And insults....

 

Edited April 16, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[ktcm7271 999]

Maybe bounce is right, instead of blaming corporate greed, maybe we should blame the government. How many years in the last century did the republicans have power again? They certainly would never contribute to corruption.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Maybe bounce is right, instead of blaming corporate greed, maybe we should blame the government. How many years in the last century did the republicans have power again? They certainly would never contribute to corruption.

 

No no no. The Republicans are great! They have had no hand in any of this in the last 100 years. It's all Obama's fault for all he's done in the last two years as puppet president.

[ktcm7271 999]

Maybe bounce is right, instead of blaming corporate greed, maybe we should blame the government. How many years in the last century did the republicans have power again? They certainly would never contribute to corruption.

 

No no no. The Republicans are great! They have had no hand in any of this in the last 100 years. It's all Obama's fault for all he's done in the last two years as puppet president.

 

Didn't he betray Christ. Give birth to Hitler, Stalin, and Pol-Pot. Bomb Pearl Harbor and the twin towers as well? I also heard that liberals feed conservative babies to pit bulls too. I'm pretty sure Hannity said something to that effect and we should all listen to him because he is on a ratings based entertainment network and he is sincere. Comedy rules!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Maybe bounce is right, instead of blaming corporate greed, maybe we should blame the government. How many years in the last century did the republicans have power again? They certainly would never contribute to corruption.

 

No no no. The Republicans are great! They have had no hand in any of this in the last 100 years. It's all Obama's fault for all he's done in the last two years as puppet president.

 

Didn't he betray Christ. Give birth to Hitler, Stalin, and Pol-Pot. Bomb Pearl Harbor and the twin towers as well? I also heard that liberals feed conservative babies to pit bulls too. I'm pretty sure Hannity said something to that effect and we should all listen to him because he is on a ratings based entertainment network and he is sincere. Comedy rules!

 

Let's not forget how Obama is responsible for the sinking of the Titanic as well as burning the Library of Alexandria. Not to mention the death of Dan Akroyd's acting career. His secret plan is to destroy America and remake the country into a field of solar and wind powered abortion machines to grind up conservative babies for use as fuel in Priuses. Glenn Beck wrote this for me on a chalk board so I KNOW it is true.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Klassy Kalashnikov

[ktcm7271 999]

Maybe bounce is right, instead of blaming corporate greed, maybe we should blame the government. How many years in the last century did the republicans have power again? They certainly would never contribute to corruption.

 

No no no. The Republicans are great! They have had no hand in any of this in the last 100 years. It's all Obama's fault for all he's done in the last two years as puppet president.

 

Didn't he betray Christ. Give birth to Hitler, Stalin, and Pol-Pot. Bomb Pearl Harbor and the twin towers as well? I also heard that liberals feed conservative babies to pit bulls too. I'm pretty sure Hannity said something to that effect and we should all listen to him because he is on a ratings based entertainment network and he is sincere. Comedy rules!

 

Let's not forget how Obama is responsible for the sinking of both the Lusitania and Titanic as well as burning the Library of Alexandria. His secret plan is to destroy America and remake the country into a field of solar and wind powered abortion machines to grind up conservative babies for use as fuel in Priuses. Glenn Beck wrote this for me on a chalk board so I KNOW it is true.

 

OUCH! I got a hell of a cramp in my side from laughing! That is some funny shit!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Maybe bounce is right, instead of blaming corporate greed, maybe we should blame the government. How many years in the last century did the republicans have power again? They certainly would never contribute to corruption.

 

No no no. The Republicans are great! They have had no hand in any of this in the last 100 years. It's all Obama's fault for all he's done in the last two years as puppet president.

 

Didn't he betray Christ. Give birth to Hitler, Stalin, and Pol-Pot. Bomb Pearl Harbor and the twin towers as well? I also heard that liberals feed conservative babies to pit bulls too. I'm pretty sure Hannity said something to that effect and we should all listen to him because he is on a ratings based entertainment network and he is sincere. Comedy rules!

 

Let's not forget how Obama is responsible for the sinking of both the Lusitania and Titanic as well as burning the Library of Alexandria. His secret plan is to destroy America and remake the country into a field of solar and wind powered abortion machines to grind up conservative babies for use as fuel in Priuses. Glenn Beck wrote this for me on a chalk board so I KNOW it is true.

 

OUCH! I got a hell of a cramp in my side from laughing! That is some funny shit!

 

I have since edited my post to include further Obama atrocities, such as killing Dan Akroyd's career!

[Bounce12 407]

You lambast people for blindly support a government that doesn't give a shit about them to take care of them, yet you think blindly supporting corporations who don't don't give a shit about people to take care of them makes sense.

 

 

It's NOT government's job to "take care" of the people or business. It's not business' job to "take care" of the workers.

 

Once you shake off this incessent need for a fucking nipple to suck on and man-up enough to take full reponsibility for yourself and your family, things might become clear for you. Until then, you'll just be another whiney bastard who points fingers, blames the rich for his problems, and votes for the politician who will keep that gravy train rolling.

 

You can HAVE that life. I want to part of it.

[Bounce12 407]

Do I really have to explain what it takes to be successful? I will, but I can't believe I have to.

 

You're productive and successful when you solve other peoples' problems at a price they can afford. That's all it takes. If you learn to do it with large numbers of people, you can be very successful. At some point, you might even realize that you can solve MORE peoples' problems if you have some help - then you hire someone. That worker has to be able to solve peoples' problems for more income than they cost you or the system breaks down and the worker is left with NO WORK.

 

If that employee comes to work with the attitude that YOU OWE THEM, then they're missing the whole point. The whole point is to solve the customers' problems and cure their pain at a price they can afford.

 

If, between the government and the unions and whatnot, the employer can no longer solve peoples' problems at a price they can afford, then they go out of business or move someplace else. When that happens, who loses? The customer and the worker do.

 

So, for those of you who STILL cannot connect the dots, if you ATTACK the guy creating your job or if YOU DO NOT solve the customers' issues at a price they can afford, YOU LOSE. If you want to spend your life whining, pointing fingers and blaming your boss, fine. Keep voting for the gravy train. Your kids will be pissing on your grave once they figure out that YOU have left them with a tab that has enslaved them and their kids.

[cvhanh20 1,052]

It's great you mentioned this because I just read some huge thing about this shit yesterday.

 

I agree Paul a lot of these jobs ain't exactly the greatest, but when they were here they at least gave someone a living wage and a job that could support them.

 

A look at where the jobs are going and what they're being turned into, are absolutely sickening. Even worse to think, is that this is a deliberate effort by large corporations, to eliminate fair work and honest pay, and replace it with sweatshops.

 

You are 100% full of shit.

 

Leaving is a deliberate effort by business TO STAY ALIVE! Want to see more business leave? Raise their taxes even more, make it even MORE expensive to hire someone, let unions have even MORE power to help the average worker be even MORE unproductive.

 

If you want more pay, then be more productive. If you don't want to be more productive, then get used to living on unemployment. Hope you're happy. You are not OWED a fucking job or some certain amount of pay. Moreover, when you try to FORCE that out of a business, they'll leave.

 

Those of us who have this fundamental shit figured out will never want for a good paying job. Those of you who think you're OWED a job, some amount of pay or security will never find it. Whine all you want, I'm getting used to turning a deaf ear to it at this point.

You are all missing the big picture here. Whatever the problems with our work force it should have been handle here. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm curious what fields some of you work in! Because I've noticed that people working in non-related areas are pretty complacent to the dismantle of our industrial might. You all can argue until your kneeling in front their sword, its real simple if you work in office and I machine and make things from metal and so on the rest of you might what to support keeping that skill set, unless your plan is jumping out your office window and maybe landing on your enemy then people better figure away to support these trades. You really want to be in a position where you have to buy your gun from the people you’re at war with! Let me know how that turns out.

[havok 21]

Alcoa is not going anywhere, just expanding. I live 20 or so miles from where Aluminum was invented and Alcoa's first home outside Pittsburgh Pa in New Kennsington.I think it would be all over the news and in the news paper's and people all over the area would be talking about Alcoa shutting down and moving out of Pittsburgh to China. Alcoa is also in Russia,Spain,Noraway,Italy,Canada,Iceland and more. Aluminum take's alot of electricity to make and Alcoa needs to go to the harsh's place's on our planet to harness that power to make their product's, so you can make your's Chaos. You should know this, You said it is your trade.

Edited April 17, 2010 by havok

[rockmup 12]

In WWII the only reason the US was able to assist to the point where we won was that we were able to convert our ENTIRE manufacturing base to working for the war effort. Families were saving bacon grease to send in to the munitions factories for the glycerin, The auto industry was making tanks & planes, the whole country was in tune...

 

Now our largest direct military threat to our country is from China.

A country with the ability to rule by decree. A country that can nationalize ANY business in their territory with a flick of a pen.

What's more?

We are borrowing $$ from them at a ridiculous rate & to ease the repayment, we're devaluing our own currency. China sees this & their getting pissed. It is ludicrous to think that China won't nationalize our factories the moment we cease to become profitable to them, or we enter into some insurmountable geopolitical / military conflict.

 

Clinton signed us into the WTO.

The Bush administration stood & did nothing as they all left. One could say they even encouraged it.

 

BOTH are guilty of nothing less than TREASON as far as I'm concerned.

 

There is a time & place for protectionism. This is that time & place.

But the elite continue to sell out their countrymen in the name of greed.

They should be treated accordingly come the proper time.

 

The Patriot Act eroded our rights immeasurably.

Obama is running with it & taking even more control in other areas of our lives.

 

Regardless of who in the 2 parties you vote for you screwed yourself & future generations.

Anyone who fails to see that one is always building off of the other is a blind fool.

 

But that's what they're counting on......

So argue between who voted for the right person. That's what they're counting on.

We're seriously fucked guys. Whatever way one looks at it.

I honestly believe we're beyond the point of no return.

 

 

I cant add a thing to that. Well said.

[bigsal 757]

 

 

Of those 6 companies, virtually all their "news" information comes from only two companies: Rueters and The Associated Press. The House of Rothschild bought most of Reuters, and the AP is simply a mish-mashof information that the 6 companies share.

 

The only free press (for now) is the internet.

 

 

Reuters is owned (53% stake) by the Woodbridge Company which is controled by the Thompson family of Canada. Rothschild & Sons is not involved.

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

 

 

Of those 6 companies, virtually all their "news" information comes from only two companies: Rueters and The Associated Press. The House of Rothschild bought most of Reuters, and the AP is simply a mish-mashof information that the 6 companies share.

 

The only free press (for now) is the internet.

 

 

Reuters is owned (53% stake) by the Woodbridge Company which is controled by the Thompson family of Canada. Rothschild & Sons is not involved.

 

Interesting, thanks.

[crackback 135]

Cameron Hadley - You are all missing the big picture here. Whatever the problems with our work force it should have been handle here. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm curious what fields some of you work in! Because I've noticed that people working in non-related areas are pretty complacent to the dismantle of our industrial might.

 

Former assembly line worker (impact wrench), cement laborer, steel fabricator, and Democrat.

Edited April 18, 2010 by 690gr

[ktcm7271 999]

Cameron Hadley - You are all missing the big picture here. Whatever the problems with our work force it should have been handle here. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm curious what fields some of you work in! Because I've noticed that people working in non-related areas are pretty complacent to the dismantle of our industrial might.

 

Former assembly line worker (impact wrench), cement laborer, steel fabricator, and Democrat.

 

Machinist, cnc machinist, maintenance mechanic since 1990. Never worked for a union, independent. I don't buy the whole move to a service based economy. A nation's health is directly measured by it's manufacturing sector, most importantly it's durable goods. A society of insurance salesmen and burger flippers will not provide a good standard of living.

[crackback 135]

Cameron Hadley - You are all missing the big picture here. Whatever the problems with our work force it should have been handle here. You don't cut off your nose to spite your face. I'm curious what fields some of you work in! Because I've noticed that people working in non-related areas are pretty complacent to the dismantle of our industrial might.

 

Former assembly line worker (impact wrench), cement laborer, steel fabricator, and Democrat.

 

Machinist, cnc machinist, maintenance mechanic since 1990. Never worked for a union, independent. I don't buy the whole move to a service based economy. A nation's health is directly measured by it's manufacturing sector, most importantly it's durable goods. A society of insurance salesmen and burger flippers will not provide a good standard of living.

 

As a true libertarian Goldwaterite/Reaganite mix and Randian capitalist I agree with you 90 -95% of the way. Where I disagree is on a techinical point regarding the weighted metrics used to judge a nations health and how heavily manufacturing would be weighted on the whole as there are many subcategories e.g heavy (Boeing, General Dynamics(M1AI Abrams?), Newport News (Nuclear Subs) and light defense indistries (ATK) (all highly Vital!!), heavy industry (Caterpillar) , Shipbuilding, Farm industry (John Deer, Int Harv), construction industry (cranes, dock equiment), consumer vehicles (Doing OK with Ford, Govt motors and Chrysler will likely fail again), heavy aircraft, consumer aircraft, consumer appliances - low tech (GONE TO CHINA), high tech manufacturing (75% GONE TO JAPAN then TAIWAN then CHINA), raw materials processing (virgin steel i.e Bethlehem, LTV (GONE TO INDIA AND RUSSIA and other places that dont have a manufacturing business destroying EPA), Alcoa (Doing great!) etc..) , secondary processing (scrap mills mostly overseas), Specialty processing -(Worthington Steel (doing great!) ), etc...

Edited April 19, 2010 by 690gr

[bigsal 757]

 

 

Of those 6 companies, virtually all their "news" information comes from only two companies: Rueters and The Associated Press. The House of Rothschild bought most of Reuters, and the AP is simply a mish-mashof information that the 6 companies share.

 

The only free press (for now) is the internet.

 

 

Reuters is owned (53% stake) by the Woodbridge Company which is controled by the Thompson family of Canada. Rothschild & Sons is not involved.

 

Interesting, thanks.

No Problem. They are not a vary big bank. They are just easy targets because of the family name and the fact that they were founded by Jews. I mean, the conspiracy nuts always are posting shit about the Rothschild's owning the world when in reality they are not a vary big player in modern banking.

 

Sorry to thread hijack, I think its shitty that all our industrial capacity has been moved overseas. The obvious solution is to draft protectionist laws, levy taxes against foreign goods (except those coming out of Izhmash factory) and curb capital flight (kind of like Taiwan did in the 1970's and 80's) with threats of jail time.

Edited April 18, 2010 by bigsal

[crackback 135]

 

 

Of those 6 companies, virtually all their "news" information comes from only two companies: Rueters and The Associated Press. The House of Rothschild bought most of Reuters, and the AP is simply a mish-mashof information that the 6 companies share.

 

The only free press (for now) is the internet.

 

 

Reuters is owned (53% stake) by the Woodbridge Company which is controled by the Thompson family of Canada. Rothschild & Sons is not involved.

 

Interesting, thanks.

No Problem. They are not a vary big bank. They are just easy targets because of the family name and the fact that they were founded by Jews. I mean, the conspiracy nuts always are posting shit about the Rothschild's owning the world when in reality they are not a vary big player in modern banking.

 

Sorry to thread hijack, I think its shitty that all our industrial capacity has been moved overseas. The obvious solution is to draft protectionist laws, levy taxes against foreign goods (except those coming out of Izhmash factory) and curb capital flight (kind of like Taiwan did in the 1970's and 80's) with threats of jail time.

 

As to capital flight... Our corporate taxes are the second highest in the world. Also, if you own stocks in or out of your pension fund (union or not), your 401k, or in mutual funds you are essentially double taxed when you sell these for any gain to a clip of [1 -35%(corporate rate)] x 15% (personal capital gains rate, which the Democrat statist/socialists want to hike to 20-25%)] + 35% = 44.75% Effective personal capital gains rate

 

in lieu of the fair tax being implemented.

 

1.) We should dramatically cut corporate taxes to 10% with legislation making compulsory a minimum 7.5% profit sharing with non-management if they take the tax cut>> Win-Win. (The company is free to incentivise management them however they wish as before)

 

2.) Lower personal capital gains taxes on sales to 5% for the first $ 500k and 10% for the next 500k and keep it at 12.5% thereafter.

 

3.) Re-institute the estate tax of 55% on households valued over $25 million, so as to best not nail family farms and businesses that employ many but diminish the potentially corrosive influence of "old money" estates i.e the American Aristocracy see.. Kennedy, Rockefeller, Morgan, Rothschild, Buffets, Soros, etc... Side note these families are largely left-of center or outright statist/socialists. Ironic isn't it?

 

4.) Reduce personal income taxes to 2 rates as it was for a short period in the 80's >>> 15 and 25% as to incentivise personal productivity by removing the punitive taxation on success.

 

5.) Rename "unemployment insurance" , WIC, Food Stamps, Section 8, etc.. simply Welfare and put rather firm time limits on it like Clinton and the republican congress did.

 

6.)Eliminate many antiquated bureaucracies letting the states do them if they choose e.g the EPA, Amtrack, farm bureau , etc...

 

7.) Open up all US property to energy exploration. Eliminate subsidies for non scalable or money losing energy technologies i.e Wind, ethanol, etc... Streamline the red tape process to get nuclear facilities running.

 

8.) Right to work laws in all 50 states.

 

9.) Federal workers can no longer unionize. How does this even make sense... it totally screws the taxpayer as there becomes and is an unseemly symbiotic relationship between gov't and the unionized workers to grow the two exponentially.

 

10.)State/local gov't workers can no longer unionize for above reasons. This applies to educators as well. Anyone else is free to unionize by secret ballot.

 

11.) Pull us out of NAFTA with Mexico, a soon to be failed state. Also remove Most Favored trading Nation status from China and give it to one of their rivals with a high cost of labor like us.... Japan maybe or perhaps no one.

 

12.) I'm just getting warmed up but I have to go overseed my lawn (I know its a little late in the year to do so).

Edited April 18, 2010 by 690gr

[cvhanh20 1,052]

[ktcm7271 999]

 

 

Of those 6 companies, virtually all their "news" information comes from only two companies: Rueters and The Associated Press. The House of Rothschild bought most of Reuters, and the AP is simply a mish-mashof information that the 6 companies share.

 

The only free press (for now) is the internet.

 

 

Reuters is owned (53% stake) by the Woodbridge Company which is controled by the Thompson family of Canada. Rothschild & Sons is not involved.

 

Interesting, thanks.

No Problem. They are not a vary big bank. They are just easy targets because of the family name and the fact that they were founded by Jews. I mean, the conspiracy nuts always are posting shit about the Rothschild's owning the world when in reality they are not a vary big player in modern banking.

 

Sorry to thread hijack, I think its shitty that all our industrial capacity has been moved overseas. The obvious solution is to draft protectionist laws, levy taxes against foreign goods (except those coming out of Izhmash factory) and curb capital flight (kind of like Taiwan did in the 1970's and 80's) with threats of jail time.

 

As to capital flight... Our corporate taxes are the second highest in the world. Also, if you own stocks in or out of your pension fund (union or not), your 401k, or in mutual funds you are essentially double taxed when you sell these for any gain to a clip of [1 -35%(corporate rate)] x 15% (personal capital gains rate, which the Democrat statist/socialists want to hike to 20-25%)] + 35% = 44.75% Effective personal capital gains rate

 

in lieu of the fair tax being implemented.

 

1.) We should dramatically cut corporate taxes to 10% with legislation making compulsory a minimum 7.5% profit sharing with non-management if they take the tax cut>> Win-Win. (The company is free to incentivise management them however they wish as before)

 

2.) Lower personal capital gains taxes on sales to 5% for the first $ 500k and 10% for the next 500k and keep it at 12.5% thereafter.

 

3.) Re-institute the estate tax of 55% on households valued over $25 million, so as to best not nail family farms and businesses that employ many but diminish the potentially corrosive influence of "old money" estates i.e the American Aristocracy see.. Kennedy, Rockefeller, Morgan, Rothschild, Buffets, Soros, etc... Side note these families are largely left-of center or outright statist/socialists. Ironic isn't it?

 

4.) Reduce personal income taxes to 2 rates as it was for a short period in the 80's >>> 15 and 25% as to incentivise personal productivity by removing the punitive taxation on success.

 

5.) Rename "unemployment insurance" , WIC, Food Stamps, Section 8, etc.. simply Welfare and put rather firm time limits on it like Clinton and the republican congress did.

 

6.)Eliminate many antiquated bureaucracies letting the states do them if they choose e.g the EPA, Amtrack, farm bureau , etc...

 

7.) Open up all US property to energy exploration. Eliminate subsidies for non scalable or money losing energy technologies i.e Wind, ethanol, etc... Streamline the red tape process to get nuclear facilities running.

 

8.) Right to work laws in all 50 states.

 

9.) Federal workers can no longer unionize. How does this even make sense... it totally screws the taxpayer as there becomes and is an unseemly symbiotic relationship between gov't and the unionized workers to grow the two exponentially.

 

10.)State/local gov't workers can no longer unionize for above reasons. This applies to educators as well. Anyone else is free to unionize by secret ballot.

 

11.) Pull us out of NAFTA with Mexico, a soon to be failed state. Also remove Most Favored trading Nation status from China and give it to one of their rivals with a high cost of labor like us.... Japan maybe or perhaps no one.

 

12.) I'm just getting warmed up but I have to go overseed my lawn (I know its a little late in the year to do so).

 

Why aren't you forging policies for the gov? That is some sound guidelines. You mentioned Worthington, I've been there for 9.5 years. The company has seen better days, but we're going to weather this down turn and thrive again. They really are a good company. Their motto is 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.

[bigsal 757]

 

 

As to capital flight... Our corporate taxes are the second highest in the world. Also, if you own stocks in or out of your pension fund (union or not), your 401k, or in mutual funds you are essentially double taxed when you sell these for any gain to a clip of [1 -35%(corporate rate)] x 15% (personal capital gains rate, which the Democrat statist/socialists want to hike to 20-25%)] + 35% = 44.75% Effective personal capital gains rate

 

in lieu of the fair tax being implemented.

 

1.) We should dramatically cut corporate taxes to 10% with legislation making compulsory a minimum 7.5% profit sharing with non-management if they take the tax cut>> Win-Win. (The company is free to incentivise management them however they wish as before)

 

2.) Lower personal capital gains taxes on sales to 5% for the first $ 500k and 10% for the next 500k and keep it at 12.5% thereafter.

 

3.) Re-institute the estate tax of 55% on households valued over $25 million, so as to best not nail family farms and businesses that employ many but diminish the potentially corrosive influence of "old money" estates i.e the American Aristocracy see.. Kennedy, Rockefeller, Morgan, Rothschild, Buffets, Soros, etc... Side note these families are largely left-of center or outright statist/socialists. Ironic isn't it?

 

4.) Reduce personal income taxes to 2 rates as it was for a short period in the 80's >>> 15 and 25% as to incentivise personal productivity by removing the punitive taxation on success.

 

5.) Rename "unemployment insurance" , WIC, Food Stamps, Section 8, etc.. simply Welfare and put rather firm time limits on it like Clinton and the republican congress did.

 

6.)Eliminate many antiquated bureaucracies letting the states do them if they choose e.g the EPA, Amtrack, farm bureau , etc...

 

7.) Open up all US property to energy exploration. Eliminate subsidies for non scalable or money losing energy technologies i.e Wind, ethanol, etc... Streamline the red tape process to get nuclear facilities running.

 

8.) Right to work laws in all 50 states.

 

9.) Federal workers can no longer unionize. How does this even make sense... it totally screws the taxpayer as there becomes and is an unseemly symbiotic relationship between gov't and the unionized workers to grow the two exponentially.

 

10.)State/local gov't workers can no longer unionize for above reasons. This applies to educators as well. Anyone else is free to unionize by secret ballot.

 

11.) Pull us out of NAFTA with Mexico, a soon to be failed state. Also remove Most Favored trading Nation status from China and give it to one of their rivals with a high cost of labor like us.... Japan maybe or perhaps no one.

 

12.) I'm just getting warmed up but I have to go overseed my lawn (I know its a little late in the year to do so).

 

 

I don't think thats accurate. All cutting corporate taxes and lowering worker benefits does is put us in a race to the bottom with countries that employ slave labor.

 

If you want to keep corporations here, threaten their officers and investors with jail time for moving capacity or funds overseas. Thats the model we need. Regulate businesses that want to have access to our market.

[Bounce12 407]

 

I don't think thats accurate. All cutting corporate taxes and lowering worker benefits does is put us in a race to the bottom with countries that employ slave labor.

 

If you want to keep corporations here, threaten their officers and investors with jail time for moving capacity or funds overseas. Thats the model we need. Regulate businesses that want to have access to our market.

 

 

Ummmm, hokay, so if I invest in a mutual fund that owns stock in any company that moves capacity overseas, both the company's officers and I should go to jail, right? Yeah, that's a great idea!

 

Where do you liberal extremists come up with this shit, Leon Trotsky?

Edited April 18, 2010 by Bounce12

[crackback 135]

 

 

As to capital flight... Our corporate taxes are the second highest in the world. Also, if you own stocks in or out of your pension fund (union or not), your 401k, or in mutual funds you are essentially double taxed when you sell these for any gain to a clip of [1 -35%(corporate rate)] x 15% (personal capital gains rate, which the Democrat statist/socialists want to hike to 20-25%)] + 35% = 44.75% Effective personal capital gains rate

 

in lieu of the fair tax being implemented.

 

1.) We should dramatically cut corporate taxes to 10% with legislation making compulsory a minimum 7.5% profit sharing with non-management if they take the tax cut>> Win-Win. (The company is free to incentivise management them however they wish as before)

 

2.) Lower personal capital gains taxes on sales to 5% for the first $ 500k and 10% for the next 500k and keep it at 12.5% thereafter.

 

3.) Re-institute the estate tax of 55% on households valued over $25 million, so as to best not nail family farms and businesses that employ many but diminish the potentially corrosive influence of "old money" estates i.e the American Aristocracy see.. Kennedy, Rockefeller, Morgan, Rothschild, Buffets, Soros, etc... Side note these families are largely left-of center or outright statist/socialists. Ironic isn't it?

 

4.) Reduce personal income taxes to 2 rates as it was for a short period in the 80's >>> 15 and 25% as to incentivise personal productivity by removing the punitive taxation on success.

 

5.) Rename "unemployment insurance" , WIC, Food Stamps, Section 8, etc.. simply Welfare and put rather firm time limits on it like Clinton and the republican congress did.

 

6.)Eliminate many antiquated bureaucracies letting the states do them if they choose e.g the EPA, Amtrack, farm bureau , etc...

 

7.) Open up all US property to energy exploration. Eliminate subsidies for non scalable or money losing energy technologies i.e Wind, ethanol, etc... Streamline the red tape process to get nuclear facilities running.

 

8.) Right to work laws in all 50 states.

 

9.) Federal workers can no longer unionize. How does this even make sense... it totally screws the taxpayer as there becomes and is an unseemly symbiotic relationship between gov't and the unionized workers to grow the two exponentially.

 

10.)State/local gov't workers can no longer unionize for above reasons. This applies to educators as well. Anyone else is free to unionize by secret ballot.

 

11.) Pull us out of NAFTA with Mexico, a soon to be failed state. Also remove Most Favored trading Nation status from China and give it to one of their rivals with a high cost of labor like us.... Japan maybe or perhaps no one.

 

12.) I'm just getting warmed up but I have to go overseed my lawn (I know its a little late in the year to do so).

 

 

I don't think thats accurate. All cutting corporate taxes and lowering worker benefits does is put us in a race to the bottom with countries that employ slave labor.

 

If you want to keep corporations here, threaten their officers and investors with jail time for moving capacity or funds overseas. Thats the model we need. Regulate businesses that want to have access to our market.

 

Accurate? These are just my proposals not a position paper from an NGO think tank. You may have missed the part where I stated that the companies that take the 25% tax cut must, by force of law, pay out, at a minimum of 7.5% (Im not married to this number, it can go only up) to ALL non-management employees. So after this cut our companies are compelled to stay here in the USA as there effective rate went down by half (35% to 17.5%). The workers are monetarily encouraged to be more productive as incentives are now tangibly aligned with their employer. The investor is happy as his or her effective capital gains rate has substantially dropped and the company is growing (share price going up as well long term), There is also the local/state community and gov't that benefits with jobs and a tax base staying and growing and so on ad infinitum. Win-Win-Win-Win-Win-Win >>>> Company>>>Mangement>>>>Non-managment employees>>>investors>>>>community>>>State/local gov't

 

Jail time?? Companies both Large cap and mid cap should be thought of as living organisms to best understand their potential behavior. Why would they want to stay with a loutish spouse who takes a big chunk of their money and abuses and threatens them, when they can separate and he or she can live elsewhere (whether lower cost state or abroad) with the caring, nurturing, new lover that appreciates their presence? That punitive approach of all stick and no carrot you propose would only accelerate the exodus.

Edited April 19, 2010 by 690gr

[blackrifle71 0]

here in ST. LOUIS 4 years ago we had 3 auto plants

they are almost done scrapping the buildings that were the ford plant

the chrysler plant where my dad retired from has a sign on the front that says 3.5 million sq. feet for sale

im sure in 2 more years it will be scrapped too

i think the gmc van plant has 1 shift left

at least we have the budweiser plant

oh wait...last year they sold it to europe and new management laid off thousands of people

m4 owners would call that one a backfire lol

 

when the unemployment checks stop...my Saiga will be PRICELESS!!!

 

the ONLY hope we have is in the resurrection

[crackback 135]

 

 

Why aren't you forging policies for the gov? That is some sound guidelines. You mentioned Worthington, I've been there for 9.5 years. The company has seen better days, but we're going to weather this down turn and thrive again. They really are a good company. Their motto is 8 hours work for 8 hours pay.

 

 

Because, I am (truly blessed these days to be) too busy with my 2 jobs and being the best father I can be to my wonderful 9 month old.

 

Worthington Industries is a great American company with an exemplary corporate culture that treats its people fairly. I heard of this and how they were kicking butt and became a shareholder years back. I reluctantly had to sell my shares to help finance my honeymoon but I would not hesitate to own them again.

Edited April 19, 2010 by 690gr