Failure to eject and load new round

[gregomega 929]

I took my Saiga 12 out for its first bonanza and to my disappointment it did not cycle the next round or even eject the old round. I only have a gogun twister puck/piston in it. I change the gas setting from 1 to 2 and no dice. I reverted back to the stock puck, still nothing. Tried switching from 1 to 2 with stock puck and nothing. I read online that sometimes it has to do with the ammo. I was using 2-3/4 winchester super x target shot. Herd it worked the best. But no. Also read that the gun fixers plug might help, but I have yet to purchase one due to failure to fit a chaos quick access product. Had to send it back an lost some $. Anyone have any Ideas before I take it to a gunsmith?

[Bvamp 604]

It may fall under free warranty from Cadiz Gun Works.

 

Do you have federal 1 1/8oz birdshot to try on gas setting two? if those dont work, you have a gas issue, if its an unaltered stock gun....

 

This combat shotgun was never designed or intended for light loads, and does not like winchester lower priced shells

[corbin 621]

Welcome to the forum.

 

New guns often need to be "broken in" to help smooth things out. But if you've got blocked or missing gas ports, no amount of breaking in will alleviate that. Gunfixer's plug is great and I recommend one, but if your gun isn't getting enough gas, it isn't getting enough gas.

 

As Bvamp said, CGW may be able to help you out.

 

 

Corbin

Edited April 17, 2010 by Corbin

[gregomega 929]

It may fall under free warranty from Cadiz Gun Works.

 

Do you have federal 1 1/8oz birdshot to try on gas setting two? if those dont work, you have a gas issue, if its an unaltered stock gun....

 

This combat shotgun was never designed or intended for light loads, and does not like winchester lower priced shells

 

 

I just talked to the business who sold it to me and he said that "its made to shoot high brass ammo being its a home defence weapon". But ill try the Federal 1-1/8oz birdshot and see what happens.

 

How do I find out if it does fall under warrenty from CGWorks? Perhaps one of the manuals that came with the S12?

 

Either way I appreciate your input. Thanks buddy!

[gregomega 929]

Welcome to the forum.

 

New guns often need to be "broken in" to help smooth things out. But if you've got blocked or missing gas ports, no amount of breaking in will alleviate that. Gunfixer's plug is great and I recommend one, but if your gun isn't getting enough gas, it isn't getting enough gas.

 

As Bvamp said, CGW may be able to help you out.

 

 

Corbin

 

 

True, I still need to brake it in. Im going to invest in a Gunfixer's plug anyway. Ive heard nothing but good things about it. Thats all I really want to do, is have it work the best that it can. Eventually I grow a bigger pair and give it a real pistol grip conversion so it can look as good as everyone elses. Here it is BTW.

[Bvamp 604]

check inside the gas block with a bent paperclip and see how many gas vent holes you can find....you SHOULD have 3 unobstructed ports....

[evlblkwpnz 3,418]

Welcome to the forum.

 

New guns often need to be "broken in" to help smooth things out. But if you've got blocked or missing gas ports, no amount of breaking in will alleviate that. Gunfixer's plug is great and I recommend one, but if your gun isn't getting enough gas, it isn't getting enough gas.

 

As Bvamp said, CGW may be able to help you out.

 

 

Corbin

 

 

True, I still need to brake it in. Im going to invest in a Gunfixer's plug anyway. Ive heard nothing but good things about it. Thats all I really want to do, is have it work the best that it can. Eventually I grow a bigger pair and give it a real pistol grip conversion so it can look as good as everyone elses. Here it is BTW.

 

I assume you didn't fire it before you put the quad rail on there. Does the quad apply downward pressure on the gas tube or block the gas exit port? If so, put the factory handguard back on and try shooting it again. Also, look in the 'sticky' threads. You will learn a great deal.

 

Really, these guns generally need a bit of work done to them to make them work well with low brass rounds.

[IRONMULE 4]

Hello Take out the gas puck and look for three holes port on top the barrel,try using a dental pick to poke into the three port holes to clear open. If that don't work then call the CGW shop for warrenty work, as long as the gun is not modified you have a warrenty. The name CGW is on this website. Good luck

[Paulyski 2,227]

Even if there are 3 ports, they need to be about the size of a 3/32nd drill bit base.

A large number of these have come over with undersized ports.

 

To cycle the winchester bulk crap reliably, you need to polish & profile the bolt & carrier's & rails friction bearing parts, then come the tweeks after you convert.

 

there are a few other fixes, but we'll get to those later...

 

It's all easy. Just ask. These all end up running great if you just put a little time into it.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

ETA:

Unless you really want to dig into it yourself however, DO check to see if your good for free warenty work before the dremel comes out. And like previously stated, after breaking it in.

Edited April 18, 2010 by Paulyski

[a782482 0]

Even if there are 3 ports, they need to be about the size of a 3/32nd drill bit base.

A large number of these have come over with undersized ports.

 

To cycle the winchester bulk crap reliably, you need to polish & profile the bolt & carrier's & rails friction bearing parts, then come the tweeks after you convert.

 

there are a few other fixes, but we'll get to those later...

 

It's all easy. Just ask. These all end up running great if you just put a little time into it.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

ETA:

Unless you really want to dig into it yourself however, DO check to see if your good for free warenty work before the dremel comes out. And like previously stated, after breaking it in.

 

Yup, I follewed this thread and polished my bolt with a Dremel as well. Made a huge difference runs much smoother has been cycling Fed Bulk from walmart on setting 2 well.

Hey Paulyski do you mind sharing words of wisdom? What are the tweaks to do after the conversion to improve reliability? Thanks

[gregomega 929]

It may fall under free warranty from Cadiz Gun Works.

 

Do you have federal 1 1/8oz birdshot to try on gas setting two? if those dont work, you have a gas issue, if its an unaltered stock gun....

 

This combat shotgun was never designed or intended for light loads, and does not like winchester lower priced shells

 

 

I bought some Fed. Highbrass last saturday and went out for a test yesterday(4/19) and it worked nicely. I only shot 5 rounds, but that was enough for me. I just wanted to see it work. This weekend will be different. Im gonna try regular Fed. 1-1/8oz BS and test all gas settings. I forgot to check what gas puck I was using, but im sure it was the stock GP and not the GoGun Twister Puck. Ill post results if anyone is interested?

[gregomega 929]

Ill post results if anyone is interested?

 

Results. Got my gun back from CGW. no go with original gas plug. put in the gunfixers and it works fine. Did some polishing and converted it, and it couldnt be better. not one fte. thanks to all for the advice.

[stinkybox 5]

Remember on the bird loads the amount and size of shot is irrelvant. What matters on the birdloads is the amount of powder!!! They are already light loads for Saiga since it is designed for high brass. When purchasing ammo only buy bird loads with at least 3 Dram EQ. of powder. The more powerful birdload the more gas hence more energy to eject and load the next round. People get all caught up in the amount and size of shot and it does not matter. I have some AA loads that have 2.75 Dram EQ. and they wont cycle worth a fuck. Bought some Remington Sporting Loads with 3 Dram EQ. and it runs fine with the GF Plug. Also run some 00 Buck through it to get that bitch broken in.

[Paulyski 2,227]

Even if there are 3 ports, they need to be about the size of a 3/32nd drill bit base.

A large number of these have come over with undersized ports.

 

To cycle the winchester bulk crap reliably, you need to polish & profile the bolt & carrier's & rails friction bearing parts, then come the tweeks after you convert.

 

there are a few other fixes, but we'll get to those later...

 

It's all easy. Just ask. These all end up running great if you just put a little time into it.

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

ETA:

Unless you really want to dig into it yourself however, DO check to see if your good for free warenty work before the dremel comes out. And like previously stated, after breaking it in.

 

Yup, I follewed this thread and polished my bolt with a Dremel as well. Made a huge difference runs much smoother has been cycling Fed Bulk from walmart on setting 2 well.

Hey Paulyski do you mind sharing words of wisdom? What are the tweaks to do after the conversion to improve reliability? Thanks

Sorry it took so long, I've not been watching this thread closely.

 

If one's ports are the right size & you've reduced friction already At the bolt, bolt carrier, rails & FCG, I would notch the BHO where the spring rests on it like this; so it can't slip off & jam up unexpectedly. Also shorten it's button at the bottom, so you don't hit it while firing... (Or just ditch the thing all together, put a washer by the hammer to account for the difference & get a krebs safety lever)

 

I would also smoothen the front (sharp part) of the extractor slot a tiny bit, so it's less likely to catch the lead edge of rounds.

 

Also, bend the BHO side leg of the main spring outward in the center of the leg, so it can't walk toward the center & cause the trigger to fail to reset.

 

On to stick mags, If the mags aren't the Russian, I make sure that the top (mouth) of the mags are the exact widths of the Russian mags. Many times when one dissasembles the US mags & tests the interior diameter of them, One will find that they tend to drag on the shells slightly. This slows the shell down & causes FTFs & if it's tight enough can even cause FTEs, as the pressure from the next round aids in ejection.

 

To expand the interior diameter of a mag's mouth, I insert an object slightly larger than a 12 gage shell & dip the mouth of the mag in boiling water for about 10 to 15 seconds & let it cool with the object still inserted. When it cools, there's no more drag.

 

With AGPs I'll sand the insides with 240 grit sand paper, then when I re-assemble them, I'll snug up the screws, then back them off 1/2 rotation.

 

I make all my American mag's followers exert roughly the same amount of pressure as the Russian factory 5, by stretching the spring a bit. (gripping the spring at the ends & stretching a bit)

And I would never use Promag stick mags, because I've found the polymer to be too soft & just the pressure of the spring steel feed-lips can cause the mouths to collapse (or re-collapse if you've already fixed them)

I would only use Surefire mags in their 8 round configuration because of the fact that even surefire themselves admit that they can't reliably raise 3" rounds.

But I've found that in the 8 round configuration with tuned springs exerting the same pressure as the Russians do, they can be quite reliable.

 

Also with mags, I pay attention to the feed-lips.

 

Surefire's are molded polymer, so they're consistently the correct length.

I have gotten AGPs that had the correct length lips, but I also recieved a few that were too short once.

 

If the feed-lips are just a cunt-hair too short, or the angles of the cuts are off, the top round can tilt up. This is not good.

 

I got rid of the ones that were a tiny bit too short.

I had tuned the mags to run great, but was uncomfortable with the shells being able to tilt up. (I did however modify the rear of the inside of those perticular mags mouths, so the shell sat further rearward & the feed-lips held them down better, but it just wasn't as perfect as the Russians)

 

Which brings me to the given...

If you run Russian 8 round mags, you never even have to think about fixing them, as they are perfect as they are.

 

Oh yeah...

I also smoothen the bottom of all my mags feed-lips with sand paper slightly. Just on the parts that contact the brass of the shells, but smoothening those contact surfaces removes the possibility of friction from the feed-lips digging into the brass, which is friction that many people never even realize exists.

 

Some also tune their extractor springs, but I don't. I keep all the Russian springs at the same strength as they came from the factory at.

If I were trying to make a bean bag gun, I would tune the extractor & may consider lower power springs.

 

Also, I like the design of the factory puck, so I run it. I let my gas block stay a touch dirty too. A little bit of crap & wadding in the puck's grooves acts like piston rings & a bit of crap in the plug's threads act as sealant.

 

Hope that helps.

Edited July 17, 2010 by Paulyski

[thehopping1 105]

Ill post results if anyone is interested?

 

 

Results. Got my gun back from CGW. no go with original gas plug. put in the gunfixers and it works fine. Did some polishing and converted it, and it couldnt be better. not one fte. thanks to all for the advice.

 

Any pics, or video?

[gregomega 929]

Ill post results if anyone is interested?

 

 

Results. Got my gun back from CGW. no go with original gas plug. put in the gunfixers and it works fine. Did some polishing and converted it, and it couldnt be better. not one fte. thanks to all for the advice.

 

Any pics, or video?

 

Yeah, Its alil belated but ill put up some picks and a video. Pics are easy, video im not quite sure how to put up yet. Give me a day or two to go shoot and Ill put it up. I really need to pay attention to my old posts. Im so used to haveing 115 people view it and only 2 comments. not the case on this post, thank you to all for the advice. +1 to all.

 

Here is a pick of it after the conversion:

 

And here is whats changed since then:

 

 

still need to make some other changes when my wallet will allow.

Edited July 29, 2010 by AZG