h0pper 0 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 im planning on shortening the barrel of a 7.62x39 saiga and welding up a 74 style brake to make the full 16" for legal reasons. my question is, will knocking 2 inches off the barrel make the rifle noticeably less accurate in the real world? also seeing as how im welding the brake on is recrowning really necessary? ive heard that as long as the cut is straight and the muzzle is protected it isnt. sounds very suspect to me. thnx h0pp Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Not sure about the crowning but accuracy wise I doubt you will notice any change that may exist. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Shandlanos 1,470 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Just remember, you must remove the barrel from the weapon before shortening it. Even transitory possession of an unregistered SBR is a felony. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Krom 36 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Just remember, you must remove the barrel from the weapon before shortening it. Even transitory possession of an unregistered SBR is a felony. Really? How about removing the buttstock instead? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
corbin 621 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 Really? How about removing the buttstock instead? Removing the stock won't matter if the barrel is below 16" while still in the receiver. The only way around that is to have a Class 2 manufacturer to do it, but that would cost you. Corbin Quote Link to post Share on other sites
h0pper 0 Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 is this a "just dont get caught" thing? i mean how is anyone going to know if i go into my garage with my 16" no brake saiga, and come out an hour later with a 14" + welded 2.5 inch brake saiga? i mean i know not to cut it and then drive around for 2 weeks with it in the trunk before i weld on the brake, but removing the barrel for a >30 job seems a tad extreme. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ThirtyAughtSix 101 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 (edited) You asked too many questions, now THEY know. I wouldn't take the chance man, BATFE could come knocking at your door right when you cut the barrel and on top of it, you are breaking federal laws by doing it. I know the laws are a pain and should be changed but as long as they are what they are, I will follow them, even if that means to put a brake on my 308, because of my AWB state, I have to take the pistol grip off while threading the barrel then welding the break on, then put it back on, as to not have too many evil features (threaded barrel without a welded on brake is an evil feature I guess...). Anyways, don't do it. On top of it, read about crowns a little, you could screw up your accuracy real bad. The point of the crown is to not bend the ridges (rifling) at the end of the barrel. Yeah you will have a brake on there protecting it but you could just hurt the rifling a little in the process of mounting the brake/comp/whatever. Google is your friend, there are ways of crowning it yourself with the proper tools. I don't know what the accuracy differences would be if you fucked up your rifling but it could be random as hell with it changing as "bad" rifling on the end wears. Try sighting that in!! Not a lawyer, blah blah blah, don't do it... EDIT: Just being a grammar nazi to myself, oh shit, nazi is sposed to be capitalized according to my insta-spell checker, fuckit, insta and fuckit aren't words either I guess. Edited June 19, 2010 by ThirtyAughtSix Quote Link to post Share on other sites
h0pper 0 Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 lol THEM, now im screwed. i guess i better do it all proper, better safe than sorry. damn the trouble! thanks guys Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 is this a "just dont get caught" thing? i mean how is anyone going to know if i go into my garage with my 16" no brake saiga, and come out an hour later with a 14" + welded 2.5 inch brake saiga? i mean i know not to cut it and then drive around for 2 weeks with it in the trunk before i weld on the brake, but removing the barrel for a >30 job seems a tad extreme. Last thing you want to do is break a BATF regulation and loose your rights to own firearms. Probably not the best idea to ask those kind of questions on a forum that is no doubt being monitored. You get a newby or troll come in here and say "yeah sure go ahead and do it, it's a stupid law and you won't get caught anyway", all of a sudden Saiga12.com becomes a place where it's encouraged to break BATF regs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PRISONSHANK 70 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 "yeah sure go ahead and do it, it's a stupid law and you won't get caught anyway" Quote Link to post Share on other sites
h0pper 0 Posted June 19, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 is this a "just dont get caught" thing? i mean how is anyone going to know if i go into my garage with my 16" no brake saiga, and come out an hour later with a 14" + welded 2.5 inch brake saiga? i mean i know not to cut it and then drive around for 2 weeks with it in the trunk before i weld on the brake, but removing the barrel for a >30 job seems a tad extreme. Last thing you want to do is break a BATF regulation and loose your rights to own firearms. Probably not the best idea to ask those kind of questions on a forum that is no doubt being monitored. You get a newby or troll come in here and say "yeah sure go ahead and do it, it's a stupid law and you won't get caught anyway", all of a sudden Saiga12.com becomes a place where it's encouraged to break BATF regs. i have nothing to hide from the BATF, i plan on doing it right. i just want to make sure this wasnt the kind of thing i would need documents for at a later date showing who did the barrel and when etc, it wont ruin what accuracy the rifle has, and how nessecary it is to recrown. its a pain to remove the barrel but if thats the law then, thats the law. thats exactly why i asked here. few trolls and plenty of knowledgeable, helpful folks to point out the less obvious ones. also @ PRISONSHANK, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 is this a "just dont get caught" thing? i mean how is anyone going to know if i go into my garage with my 16" no brake saiga, and come out an hour later with a 14" + welded 2.5 inch brake saiga? i mean i know not to cut it and then drive around for 2 weeks with it in the trunk before i weld on the brake, but removing the barrel for a >30 job seems a tad extreme. Last thing you want to do is break a BATF regulation and loose your rights to own firearms. Probably not the best idea to ask those kind of questions on a forum that is no doubt being monitored. You get a newby or troll come in here and say "yeah sure go ahead and do it, it's a stupid law and you won't get caught anyway", all of a sudden Saiga12.com becomes a place where it's encouraged to break BATF regs. i have nothing to hide from the BATF, i plan on doing it right. i just want to make sure this wasnt the kind of thing i would need documents for at a later date showing who did the barrel and when etc, it wont ruin what accuracy the rifle has, and how nessecary it is to recrown. its a pain to remove the barrel but if thats the law then, thats the law. thats exactly why i asked here. few trolls and plenty of knowledgeable, helpful folks to point out the less obvious ones. also @ PRISONSHANK, I understand, I sure wasn't trying to say that that's what you were trying to do or anything, just pointing out a hypothetical, that was until prisonshank came along. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 19, 2010 Report Share Posted June 19, 2010 "yeah sure go ahead and do it, it's a stupid law and you won't get caught anyway" Thanks asshole! :lolol: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
PRISONSHANK 70 Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 (edited) Edited June 20, 2010 by PRISONSHANK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 20, 2010 Report Share Posted June 20, 2010 "yeah sure go ahead and do it, it's a stupid law and you won't get caught anyway" Thanks asshole! :lolol: Not that their opinion is binding, but I have had BATF agents tell me the same thing at a gunshow. Their opinion was that it the firearm was disassembled, that there would be no violation. I had a member here on the cell phone with me when they told me this. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 "yeah sure go ahead and do it, it's a stupid law and you won't get caught anyway" Thanks asshole! :lolol: Not that their opinion is binding, but I have had BATF agents tell me the same thing at a gunshow. Their opinion was that it the firearm was disassembled, that there would be no violation. I had a member here on the cell phone with me when they told me this. He wasn't talking about disassembling it, but what was their view of disassembled? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) He wasn't talking about disassembling it, but what was their view of disassembled? Well it would be kind of hard to correctly cut down a barrel without dissembling the firearm, unless you were planning to use a hacksaw. But to address the question, they said that if the weapon was dissembled/non-functional at the time of modification it was not a problem. Keep in mind that these are agents, not lawyers, but they said exactly what has been said here, "How would we know if you shortened it for just a few minutes till you welded on an muzzle extension?" Many gunsmiths have had to add a Cutts or Polychoke to a previously good shotgun over the years because its owner foolishly stuck its barrel down in the mud and then pulled the trigger before cleaning it. The common fix is to cut it off then weld on the muzzle extension to bring the barrel length back out to at least 18 inches. As to the original questions, sometimes bobbing a rifle barrel back will improve accuracy. This can be due to excessive wear near the muzzle, a poor or improper crown, and increasing the overall stiffness of the barrel by reducing its length. Yes, a good crown is important,even if you use some sort of muzzle device. I have achieved a good crown with no more then a brass Carriage bolt chucked in a drill press and some abrasive Clover Compound. This method will also works well on a shotgun, though admittedly the crown is not near as important. Also sometimes you luck up when shortening a rifle barrel and achieve a better overall barrel harmonic, and sometimes you ruin a previously good one. There is a lot of VooDoo to true rifle accuracy. But on a rifle like an AK I would not waste a lot of time worrying about something as esoteric as that! Edited June 21, 2010 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vbrtrmn 167 Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 Remember, a few hours of work is better than a few years of ass-rape federal prison plus fines. Yes, it is unlikely that they're going to catch you, but if they do, do you really want to pay for a high price lawyer and the possibility of prison rape? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Azrial 1,091 Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) Remember, a few hours of work is better than a few years of ass-rape federal prison plus fines. Yes, it is unlikely that they're going to catch you, but if they do, do you really want to pay for a high price lawyer and the possibility of prison rape? Edited June 21, 2010 by Azrial Quote Link to post Share on other sites
kope007 14 Posted June 21, 2010 Report Share Posted June 21, 2010 (edited) is this a "just dont get caught" thing? I guess this is true when breaking any law. Would removing internals would be acceptable? Maybe some of the ATF agents monitoring us could please chime in. Edited June 21, 2010 by kope007 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
superA 289 Posted June 22, 2010 Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 is this a "just dont get caught" thing? I guess this is true when breaking any law. Would removing internals would be acceptable? Maybe some of the ATF agents monitoring us could please chime in. I think Azrial was saying that to properly cut down a barrel it would need to be removed. I didn't realize it couldn't be done properly without doing that. So maybe that's what the meant by dissembled, because non-functioning could simply mean removing the bolt. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
h0pper 0 Posted June 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 22, 2010 thanks to everyone for the great info, i never seem to leave this forum without learning something new. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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