bigsal 757 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 ...just because you choose an ace stock should not lump you into the "tacticool" segment of things.. I have the ACE stock and love it.. I bought it because it is rock solid, and extremely high quality.. there is ZERO movement in it.. you should really ditch the whole elitist attitude.. as long as the weapon functions well for the user.. and is made of high quality reliable parts.. that should be the concern.. Uncomfy, cannot hold a field cleaning kit, weighs more than the triangle folder etc etc etc... Nothing elitist about wanting the best. Of course in NJ, you are somewhat limited to begin with, and cannot use a proper poly folder anyway. "Uncomfy"? My ACE provides the most comfortable cheek weld of any stock I own. The recoil pad is also excellent. I haven't weighed the two side-by-side, but I'd bet my "Ultra Lite" model, (which shrugs off 12-ga recoil), weighs no more than that sheet-metal triange folder. To each his own, but quit gratuitously trashing ACE, Sal. Again, the order of stock desirability is as follows: Poly folder--> Triangle Folder--> Warsaw solid poly stock/FSE triangle stocks/Tapco Solid stocks--> Ace Stocks/Wire Stocks/Underfolder--> tapco folding stock/wood stocks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) Dude, fuck the triangle folder. You may love it, but it's just a cheap piece of sheet metal to me. Also, you rank a Tapco "AK" solid stock over all ACE stocks? The fuck you on? Also, you didn't address my points above. ACE stocks are not "uncomfy" or heavy. Have you ever even actually tried one yourself before you decided to damn them en masse, Sal? Edited August 5, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 Dude, fuck the triangle folder. You may love it, but it's just a cheap piece of sheet metal to me. Also, you rank a Tapco "AK" solid stock over all ACE stocks? The fuck you on? Also, you didn't address my points above. ACE stocks are not "uncomfy" or heavy. Have you ever even actually tried one yourself before you decided to damn them en masse, Sal? The triangle is a great utilitarian design. It holds a soviet bandage nicely. The poly folder is ideal as it holds the field cleaning kit and retains the form of a well designed buttstock. The tapco solid state stock is the most underrated stock on the market. Solid, Comfy and full of win. Its only draw back is its lack of cleaning kit compartment. The ace folders (and indeed any galil style mechanism folders) are clunky, and non ergonomic in my experinece. Feel free to disagree all you want Post, but weight, comfort and design matter. again, I rate the ace folders higher than the tapco folder, and higher than a beat up rommy wood stock (as wood deteriorates faster than plastic/metal and weighs more). They are not ideal however. I have spoken! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) Dude, fuck the triangle folder. You may love it, but it's just a cheap piece of sheet metal to me. Also, you rank a Tapco "AK" solid stock over all ACE stocks? The fuck you on? Also, you didn't address my points above. ACE stocks are not "uncomfy" or heavy. Have you ever even actually tried one yourself before you decided to damn them en masse, Sal? The triangle is a great utilitarian design. It holds a soviet bandage nicely. The poly folder is ideal as it holds the field cleaning kit and retains the form of a well designed buttstock. The tapco solid state stock is the most underrated stock on the market. Solid, Comfy and full of win. Its only draw back is its lack of cleaning kit compartment. The ace folders (and indeed any galil style mechanism folders) are clunky, and non ergonomic in my experinece. Feel free to disagree all you want Post, but weight, comfort and design matter. again, I rate the ace folders higher than the tapco folder, and higher than a beat up rommy wood stock (as wood deteriorates faster than plastic/metal and weighs more). They are not ideal however. I have spoken! Again, you didn't answer my question. Have you ever actually used an ACE stock and folding mech on any Saiga? As I've said, I use an ACE "Ultra-Lite". With this stock, you cut the tube length to suit your preferred LOP, and you could hide your weed in there, man! Or, you could put that AK field cleaning kit in there, with room to spare. You can believe me or not, but I'm tellin you; that stock is comfortable as hell, lightweight, and still shrugs off 12-ga recoil. It epitomizes function over form; you of all people should appreciate that! Edited August 5, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 Have you ever actually used an ACE stock I have the same question... the inability for the ace stock to store things is really not an issue for me.. if i am going to be out with the weapon for an extended period of time I have a pack, that everything is kept in.. I almost feel like his devotion to soviet specific items MIRRORS that of the tacticool crowd in that he IGNORES the actual function and focuses more on the status of it. and as far as it being heavy... seriously? it is really not all that heavy...maybe it is relative.. I mean I guess if you are a smaller guy, or a girl or something my rifle might feel heavy.. but for the most part.. I find it really easy to handle and maneuver.. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) Again, you didn't answer my question. Have you ever actually used an ACE stock and folding mech on any Saiga? As I've said, I use an ACE "Ultra-Lite". With this stock, you cut the tube length to suit your preferred LOP, and you could hide your weed in there, man! Or, you could put that AK field cleaning kit in there, with room to spare. You can believe me or not, but I'm tellin you; that stock is comfortable as hell, lightweight, and still shrugs off 12-ga recoil. It epitomizes function over form; you of all people should appreciate that! Post-A: Yes and no. I have used an ACE on a SAR 1, not a saiga. I did not find it comfy at all. Also I used the wedge looking stock from ace not the unit you have in the picture above. It weighs more than the triangle designed stock as well. I am glad you enjoy yours, however, my ordering does not change. I only care about function, design, and weight. The Ace that I used was not the worst in each category, but certainly does not equal the choices I listed in my above post. Damageworld:> Thanks for your rant and jerk-off comment. Again, I am glad you enjoy your ACE stock. But I rank items based on function, design and weight. I am not hindered by a need to impress my friends with my tacticool rifle (like some who I will not name) and I don't feel the need to insult others who obviously know a hell of a lot more than I do. Nuff said... Edited August 6, 2010 by bigsal Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rigrat 7 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 (edited) Bigsal, I'm glad you like what you like and we like what we like. Enjoy your stocks, they are on your rifles. But I just will have to agree to disagree with you. For me in the folders would be ACE & Wire folders, poly folder, all others. For non folders it would be wood & ACE, and all others. but thats just my opinion and my likes and dislikes. I have a Ace non folder on one and a Tapco solid on the other. The ACE gives the best feel to me, but the Tapco is a good feeling stock that seems to be well made, I would like it more if it was Nato length though. Post, I like the Ace ultra light, it looks really good on your S12. Edited August 5, 2010 by rigrat Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 5, 2010 Report Share Posted August 5, 2010 Bigsal, I'm glad you like what you like and we like what we like. Enjoy your stocks, they are on your rifles. But I just will have to agree to disagree with you. For me in the folders would be ACE & Wire folders, poly folder, all others. For non folders it would be wood & ACE, and all others. but thats just my opinion and my likes and dislikes. I have a Ace non folder on one and a Tapco solid on the other. The ACE gives the best feel to me, but the Tapco is a good feeling stock that seems to be well made, I would like it more if it was Nato length though. I am glad that your glad that I am glad. We will have to agree to disagree, but at the same time, we should all try and focus on the facts rather than what we "like" or simply trying to justify the purchases we have made. In line with this, I will do a comparison and testing sometime in the future so that disagreements like this can be avoided. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mosher111 1 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Cant we all just make love to our guns and all agree to disagree. I thank everyone who chimmed in. You guys might consider Sal an AK snob but he actually provided some great information for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Again, you didn't answer my question. Have you ever actually used an ACE stock and folding mech on any Saiga? As I've said, I use an ACE "Ultra-Lite". With this stock, you cut the tube length to suit your preferred LOP, and you could hide your weed in there, man! Or, you could put that AK field cleaning kit in there, with room to spare. You can believe me or not, but I'm tellin you; that stock is comfortable as hell, lightweight, and still shrugs off 12-ga recoil. It epitomizes function over form; you of all people should appreciate that! Post-A: Yes and no. I have used an ACE on a SAR 1, not a saiga. I did not find it comfy at all. Also I used the wedge looking stock from ace not the unit you have in the picture above. It weighs more than the triangle designed stock as well. I am glad you enjoy yours, however, my ordering does not change. I only care about function, design, and weight. The Ace that I used was not the worst in each category, but certainly does not equal the choices I listed in my above post. Damageworld:> Thanks for your rant and jerk-off comment. Again, I am glad you enjoy your ACE stock. But I rank items based on function, design and weight. I am not hindered by a need to impress my friends on stormfront.org with my tacticool rifle (like some who I will not name) and I don't feel the need to insult others who obviously know a hell of a lot more than I do. Nuff said... i don't feel the need to impress ANYONE with my rifle.. it was pieced together with function in mind.. my negative comments came ONLY after YOUR rant about how the parts that I chose were such pieces of shit.. There are a lot of members who choose the ACE rout... When you gain more knowledge about the platform and need a new rear trunnion to replace the ACE monstrosity, shoot me a PM. I have done two proper comm block sidefolders and have two great condition replacement trunnions for anyone who has chopped their kit up looking for the cheap-thrill of the "tacticool mall-ninja-esq-ness". I would be happy to sell or trade them. Good Luck! maybe if you didnt act like such a know it all "e-thug" this conversation would have gone FAR different.. you and I obviously share a common interest.. these rifles.. so why you would speak in such a disparaging manner to a fellow enthusiast is beyond me.. so my reply, was given in just about the same obnoxious tone.. as far as my postings on other sites.. I don't care that you e-stalk me.. it is irrelevant.. I have been a member here for a while.. I have helped quite a few people and even gone out of my way to meet people locally to help them with builds.. I simply took offense to the rude know it all better than all tone you took up.. what's the point.. you like what you like.. and some of us obviously like something different, it does not mean that we are beneath you.. really.. just get over it.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 maybe if you didnt act like such a know it all "e-thug" this conversation would have gone FAR different.. you and I obviously share a common interest.. these rifles.. so why you would speak in such a disparaging manner to a fellow enthusiast is beyond me.. so my reply, was given in just about the same obnoxious tone.. as far as my postings on other sites.. I don't care that you e-stalk me.. it is irrelevant.. I have been a member here for a while.. I have helped quite a few people and even gone out of my way to meet people locally to help them with builds.. I simply took offense to the rude know it all better than all tone you took up.. what's the point.. you like what you like.. and some of us obviously like something different, it does not mean that we are beneath you.. really.. just get over it.. Man oh man! So you go off on a disrespectful rant and I am the e-thug! Lets agree to be civil, You are free to like whatever stock you wish, for whatever reasons you wish. For my part I will continue to base my opinions off testable and observable criteria. So lets play nice-like and go our seperate ways. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 (edited) ...We will have to agree to disagree, but at the same time, we should all try and focus on the facts rather than what we "like" or simply trying to justify the purchases we have made. In line with this, I will do a comparison and testing sometime in the future so that disagreements like this can be avoided. Cheers! Imo, you're as guilty of focusing on what you "like", (rather than what's most effective for the money/effort involved), as anyone on this forum. We agree to disagree then. I look forward to that "comparison and testing". It'll be interesting to see how well documented and objective it is. Edited August 6, 2010 by post-apocalyptic Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 ...We will have to agree to disagree, but at the same time, we should all try and focus on the facts rather than what we "like" or simply trying to justify the purchases we have made. In line with this, I will do a comparison and testing sometime in the future so that disagreements like this can be avoided. Cheers! Imo, you're as guilty of focusing on what you "like", (rather than what's most effective for the money/effort involved), as anyone on this forum. We agree to disagree then. I look forward to that "comparison and testing". It'll be interesting to see how well documented and objective it is. When have my tests been anything but objective? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 ...We will have to agree to disagree, but at the same time, we should all try and focus on the facts rather than what we "like" or simply trying to justify the purchases we have made. In line with this, I will do a comparison and testing sometime in the future so that disagreements like this can be avoided. Cheers! Imo, you're as guilty of focusing on what you "like", (rather than what's most effective for the money/effort involved), as anyone on this forum. We agree to disagree then. I look forward to that "comparison and testing". It'll be interesting to see how well documented and objective it is. When have my tests been anything but objective? I can't really say. What are your past documented tests? Pics/video? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen em. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Lets agree to be civil, You are free to like whatever stock you wish, for whatever reasons you wish. For my part I will continue to base my opinions off testable and observable criteria. So lets play nice-like and go our seperate ways. I have NO issue with that.. to be honest I have no problem with you at all.. so sorry for being a dick.. it was nothing personal at all.. I just got uppity so really.. NO hard feelings.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VaiFanatic90 360 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Lets agree to be civil, You are free to like whatever stock you wish, for whatever reasons you wish. For my part I will continue to base my opinions off testable and observable criteria. So lets play nice-like and go our seperate ways. I have NO issue with that.. to be honest I have no problem with you at all.. so sorry for being a dick.. it was nothing personal at all.. I just got uppity so really.. NO hard feelings.. The picture post thread gives me plenty of hard feelings Haha, had to lighten the mood in here, seemed like a fucking battle was about to occur. I myself never got into folding stocks much, and although wood will deteriorate faster, I prefer it over anything else. I don't mind the weight, it gives me a sense of balance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Lets agree to be civil, You are free to like whatever stock you wish, for whatever reasons you wish. For my part I will continue to base my opinions off testable and observable criteria. So lets play nice-like and go our seperate ways. I have NO issue with that.. to be honest I have no problem with you at all.. so sorry for being a dick.. it was nothing personal at all.. I just got uppity so really.. NO hard feelings.. As am I bro, no hard feelings. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
denden 16 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Amen brothers. All together now, Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya, Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mosher111 1 Posted August 6, 2010 Author Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Did someone say something? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 Amen brothers. All together now, Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya, :lolol: Returning to topic, I do want to do an objective test of each of the stock types. I wonder what criteria each of you would want tested? Chime in please! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 (edited) Amen brothers. All together now, Kum bay ya, my Lord, kum bay ya, :lolol: Returning to topic, I do want to do an objective test of each of the stock types. I wonder what criteria each of you would want tested? Chime in please! can the stock be used to bash in a concrete steel reinforced door with two soft swings.. LOL =P Edited August 6, 2010 by DamagedWorld Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 (edited) I'm no fan of the caliber, (doesn't penetrate cover well enough or have effective terminal velocity at ranges > 100yrds with a barrel < 20" imo), but that is a cool mod. It's a great caliber for home defense, and is what I've set my wife up with (a Saiga .223). Awesome wounding capabilities with the right load, and will also break up and not exit the house completely (or at least without much remaining ability to wound). At such distances, the less-than-100-yards complaint is not operative. I may get an SLR-106 for myself at a latter date for the same role. Edited August 6, 2010 by Jim Digriz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted August 6, 2010 Report Share Posted August 6, 2010 You can believe me or not, but I'm tellin you; that stock is comfortable as hell, lightweight, and still shrugs off 12-ga recoil. But MAN is it hideous! >:-) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
shades_of_grey 1,092 Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 You can believe me or not, but I'm tellin you; that stock is comfortable as hell, lightweight, and still shrugs off 12-ga recoil. But MAN is it hideous! >:-) People seem to either love the stock or hate it. Those who love it do so because of how well it functions, while those who hate it seem to do so based solely on its appearance. I generally prefer function over form. This model epitomizes exactly that. I don't really know why some dislike it so much.. it's not ugly, simply utilitarian. To each his own. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 can the stock be used to bash in a concrete steel reinforced door with two soft swings.. LOL =P So one test might include breach ability. People seem to either love the stock or hate it. Those who love it do so because of how well it functions, while those who hate it seem to do so based solely on its appearance. I generally prefer function over form. Thats not correct. Those who dislike the ACE see it as heavy with poor ergonomics. This means tht both form and function are flawed. However, I am still willing to run more tests to confirm my hypothesis (I NEED SPELL CHECKER@!!@) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
VladTepes 160 Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 can the stock be used to bash in a concrete steel reinforced door with two soft swings.. LOL =P So one test might include breach ability. People seem to either love the stock or hate it. Those who love it do so because of how well it functions, while those who hate it seem to do so based solely on its appearance. I generally prefer function over form. Thats not correct. Those who dislike the ACE see it as heavy with poor ergonomics. This means tht both form and function are flawed. However, I am still willing to run more tests to confirm my hypothesis (I NEED SPELL CHECKER@!!@) I can't spell for shit.. so I use firefox... lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
rigrat 7 Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 Huh I like the fit and function of my Ace. And I really can't see where a couple ounces if are going to really hurt me on my ability to carry it. But I can only speak for myself and not everyone else. I'm with Post, I prefer function over form and the Ace functions fine for me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bigsal 757 Posted August 7, 2010 Report Share Posted August 7, 2010 I can't spell for shit.. so I use firefox... lol I like the NSA spying on me so I use google chrome.... with the spell check turned off.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 ...just because you choose an ace stock should not lump you into the "tacticool" segment of things.. I have the ACE stock and love it.. I bought it because it is rock solid, and extremely high quality.. there is ZERO movement in it.. you should really ditch the whole elitist attitude.. as long as the weapon functions well for the user.. and is made of high quality reliable parts.. that should be the concern.. Uncomfy, cannot hold a field cleaning kit, weighs more than the triangle folder etc etc etc... Nothing elitist about wanting the best. Of course in NJ, you are somewhat limited to begin with, and cannot use a proper poly folder anyway. "Uncomfy"? My ACE provides the most comfortable cheek weld of any stock I own. The recoil pad is also excellent. I haven't weighed the two side-by-side, but I'd bet my "Ultra Lite" model, (which shrugs off 12-ga recoil), weighs no more than that sheet-metal triange folder. To each his own, but quit gratuitously trashing ACE, Sal. Yeah. An Ace skeleton stock, even with a folding mech, is sure as hell is NOT heavier than that all steel triangle folder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jimdigriz 580 Posted August 9, 2010 Report Share Posted August 9, 2010 Yeah. An Ace skeleton stock, even with a folding mech, is sure as hell is NOT heavier than that all steel triangle folder. It is, actually. All of the Ace stocks are heavy. I was trying to find the lightest stock a while back, and got figures from directly from Ace. The standard fixed stock and the Bulgarian triangle folders are the lightest AK stocks, from what I found. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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