Specialty & AP pistol cartridges

[Afrikaner 2]

Wow, that's it. I think it was called Eliminator. You know, hindsight is always 20/20. I almost pass out when I think of the stupid things I did back in the day. We had NO problem loading a 9mm up with just about anything we can get our hands on. Had one buddy loaded up with IMI made tracers - for SD! Geeze.

[mike12345 18]

or you could just buy a FN 5.7 handgun...

 

It'll penitrate anything these "AP" handgun bullets will, costs less, is more readily avalible, and isent a gray area with the law.

[Kliegl 304]

Edited April 12, 2011 by Kliegl

[zenman223 460]

I dont get it, do people not know there bumping old ass threads? How do you pull up a thread from over a year ago and not know its OLD??

[presto_z 125]

Can I manufacture pistol AP loads personally? Not for resell but for personal protection only. I'm in Florida and just got in to reloading.

[corbin 621]

Old thread, but still cool info.

 

 

Would anyone venture a guess on whether or not a pistol that fires rifle ammo would be considered an AP setup? Stuff like the TC contender, Draco, Remington XP100 and others.

[FORKLIFT352 63]

No you can not have " AP" hand gun bullets.

But you can have a pistol AR with .223 AP.

[dreadknight 8]

Presto-Z: To answer your question about AP pistol bullets in Florida: It's a multi-part answer. For one thing, Florida does have a state law which restricts some aspects of pistol caliber AP bullets, and that is statute 790.31 in the general code. It basically says that any solid core, or solid monolithic bullet made of steel or equivalent hardness and a truncated cone is banned to manufacture, sell, offer for sale, or deliver, and is also banned to have loaded in a handgun with intent to use. That's a bunch of legal mumbo-jumbo, but what it boils down to in Florida is this:

 

You can't manufacture AP pistol bullets

You can't sell, deliver, or offer for sale AP pistol bullets

You can't possess them loaded in a handgun with intent to use (gray area for sure)

 

Bear in mind that the definition implies that the bullet must be specifically "truncated", and they say this because the law was originally designed to combat the contrived threat of KTW bullets which were mostly all truncated. So as far as German & Czech steel core round nose bullets - they are perfectly legal in Florida in every way. That goes for any round nose bullet or any AP bullet that is not "truncated".

 

Also keep in mind that simple possession of even the truncated type is not banned, and that "manufacture" means to manufacture the bullets themselves, not cartridges. So reloading existing AP pistol bullets (even if truncated) is fine as long as you do not offer them for sale, or sell / deliver them. Reloading is just using an already manufactured bullet, not manufacturing the actual bullets.

 

Federally, there is only one law restricting pistol caliber AP bullets, and that is:

18 U.S.C. chapter 44 §921 (17) (21) (22), §922(a), §923, §929(a)

 

That is the 1986 law written up by the infamously corrupt Rep Mario Biaggi, and then handled by Ted Kennedy in the senate. Reagan signed it into law since by the time the Republicans got done with it in the senate, it was essentially neutered as far as causing any problems for civilians. That law states that it is only illegal to manufacture pistol caliber AP bullets or import pistol caliber AP bullets, and that their distribution is to be to law enforcement or federal agency only when from an FFL dealer (implied). The thing about this law is that the words "manufacture" and "import" have specific definitions which dictate that they are of a large-scale commercial nature with intent to make profit and earn livelihood for the person doing it. So if anybody in the U.S. wants to make up some pistol AP bullets in their basement for non-commercial activity - they can do that as long as they are not in a ban state like CA, IL, TX, KY, NJ, and RI & FL with regard to truncated bullets.

 

Even in the ban states collectors basically have nothing to fear. These laws are long forgotten and never enforced, unless in the case of a criminal being apprehended for some other crime and he/she is found to be in the possession of such restricted ammo in a ban-state, then they will tack on a charge. I have never even heard of that happening though. The only places I might think twice about is Wash D.C. and CA since they are famously anti-gun and unpredictable as to enforcement. My own experience as a buyer and collector has been that on many occasions when seeing that a person is offering such ammo for sale (usually on Gunbroker and usually being German wartime steel core 9mm), in a restricted state, I have warned them of the law in their state, and they usually don't care and don't do anything, and law enforcement has never noticed or cared. One guy even sold me 200 assorted KTW cartridges out of Florida once which were truncated AP. Illegal for him to do so, but not for me to purchase since I am in Maine.

 

Shrug...

 

Another thing about the federal "ban" is that it's not really a ban, they just made it so that anyone wanting to commercially manufacture or commercially import had to have an FLL 10 or 11 to do so. Having one of those licenses means that the ATF can crawl up your butt anytime they want and make you prove that every single listed item or cartridge is accounted for and properly stored and documented. So it is possible anyway.

 

Refer to the map in post #7 page-one of this thread for specifics on states.

 

Corbin: Using rifle-caliber AP loads such as .308, .30-06 and .223 (ss109) in TC contender type guns is not illegal in the slightest. I assume this is due to the fact that they are single-shot, and are very obscure (unlikely to be used by criminals I guess). Back in 1994 the then BATF bureaucrat Terry L Cates put into action a plan which came from ATF director John W Magaw i.e. Bill Clinton which did list .308 and 7.62x39 steel core AP cartridges / bullets as being on the pistol-ban list. This stupid move was supposedly due to Olympic Arms co. having built and distributed the OA-93 "pistol" in 7.62x39 and Vector Arms doing up "pistols" in .308. There does however remain an obviously large quantity of this ammo, especially 7.62x39, in the country for resale and it is legal to own and shoot it in any gun you want. So keep in mind that although .308 and 7.62x39 are on the list, it just means that there can be no more commercial manufacture or commercial importation of such steel core AP type rds without having an FFL 10/11 which is a restriction-laden and difficult to acquire license.

 

Forklift352: Everyone in most all states can have pistol AP bullets.

Edited April 13, 2011 by dreadknight

[gmorrico 0]

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