BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 While I sit and wait for my 21.8" S308 to get back from the gunsmith's (with a 2" shorter barrel and 5/8x24 threads), I've been thinking of ways to further pimp it up. I currently have a Choate Drag stock, but have decided that I really like the look and ergonomics of this setup here: http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=14900&view=findpost&p=533719 I am thinking of running that with an MD Arms Molot Grip. I am correct to assume that all that I would need to mount this stock on an S308 is this?: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-180/Saiga-12-CAA-Collapsible/Detail?sfs=8ec3dd7 Anyone else using this stock? What's the general consensus on it? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrmock 7 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I don't have a PRS stock but I did mount an MOE stock on that tube. Works great. jrmock 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 15, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 I don't have a PRS stock but I did mount an MOE stock on that tube. Works great. jrmock You got pics? I'm thinking of putting an MOE stock on my SGL21 (yes, I know it's a blasphemy) for ergonomic reasons. I want to see what it looks like on an "AK". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) I am correct to assume that all that I would need to mount this stock on an S308 is this?: http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-180/Saiga-12-CAA-Collapsible/Detail?sfs=8ec3dd7 No. The PRS uses a rifle length buffer tube/spring/buffer. The one you linked to is for telescoping carbine stocks. You'll need an A2 receiver extension and a rifle buffer and spring. On top of that, you'll need a receiver block and some sort of pignose adapter to mount the buffer tube, since (as far as I know) no one makes a rifle length version of the unit you linked to. (Another side note, in case you don't already have the PRS........AIM Surplus has the black PRS2 for $199, if you use the coupon code DDV3 . That's the cheapest I've seen them for.) EDIT: Had to go back and cross some stuff out. You don't need a spring or buffer when using AR stocks on an AK. Edited October 15, 2010 by -Shooter- 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 (edited) Sx39 with MagPul MOE as requested. The PRS is nice, but I'd love to put a Magpul UBR on a tactical S.308 No, that tube will not work, the PRS requires a M16 Receiver Extension. http://www.bravocomp...m16%20rifle.htm Mounts to Rifle Receiver Extension tube without an A2 Spacer, So either a A1 or A2 tube, but A2 must have spacer removed, so just buy the A1. So you will also need a internal block and a pignose. http://store.carolin...al-Stock/Detail http://store.carolin...IGA-AK47/Detail Edited October 15, 2010 by ChileRelleno 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
22_Shooter 1,560 Posted October 15, 2010 Report Share Posted October 15, 2010 Doh! Had to go back and edit my post. I was telling this guy he needed a buffer and spring.......not thinking about how AR stocks don't need them when used on AK's. <face palm> Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 16, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Thanks for the info, guys. I was hoping not to have to cut off the tang and especially, not to drill the four holes. Though isn't there an internal receiver block that's not secured using the side receiver holes (which need to be drilled on Saiga 308s)? Wouldn't an external receiver block with a pignose adapter work too? That MOE stock looks good on your Saiga, Chile. It's sitting on one of those carbine tubes that doesn't require you to chop off the tang, right? Just to recoup, in order to use a PRS stock on my Saiga, I need: 1) Internal (or maybe external?) receiver block for Ace style stocks. 2) "Pignose" AR stock adapter for Ace style receiver blocks. 3) This (or similar) M16 receiver extension: http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/Receiver-Extension-for-M16-Rifle-p/receiver%20extension%20m16%20rifle.htm Am I missing anything? Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) Right, its on the CAA tube, a no mods necessary, bolt on part. I've both the VLTOR and CAA tubes now, both are excellent, rock solid and well made. Yeah, the Pignose works with just about any receiver block, external/internal. Hell, you could even make it a folding PRS, http://store.carolin...ing-AR15/Detail Thats about it, you'd be good to go. Edited October 16, 2010 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
jrmock 7 Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 I don't have a PRS stock but I did mount an MOE stock on that tube. Works great. jrmock You got pics? I'm thinking of putting an MOE stock on my SGL21 (yes, I know it's a blasphemy) for ergonomic reasons. I want to see what it looks like on an "AK". Here you go. This is a MOE stock on my S12. I added their enhanced buttpad to give it a little more cushion. jrmock 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 Hello You may consider a DPMS "stock extension" piece that fits between the tube and the block, as well. Those PRS stocks don't have a whole lot of LOP to dial up. I have the extension fitted on my RRA .308 and still find myself out at the back end of the cheek riser. Probably wouldn't be necessary if you used the external block, that would stretch it out pretty good. JMHO.... -guido Quote Link to post Share on other sites
s2thalayer 13 Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 actually i just completed my conversion last night. i personally think the PRS is str8 pimpin. I havent had a chance to shoot it yet, but just holding it up it feels so comfortable. and once you adjust the cheek and LOP its ridiculously personal. feels like this rifle was molded for me. However, i also added in a folding stock mechanism. That buffer tube will not work for the PRS. for the PRS you have to buy the internal receiver block (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-372/Saiga-AK47-Internal-Stock/Detail), a buffer tube adapter (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-170/ACE-CAR15-SAIGA-AK47/Detail), and a rifle receiver A2 extension tube (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Receiver%20Extension%20M16%20Rifle). M4 buffer tubes WILL NOT WORK. the M16 A2 extension is the only tube the PRS will fit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 16, 2010 Report Share Posted October 16, 2010 (edited) Can we get quality side view of that sexy bitch, with the stock extended? Edited October 16, 2010 by ChileRelleno Quote Link to post Share on other sites
choobie 5 Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Anyone put an ACS stock on their 308? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 17, 2010 Report Share Posted October 17, 2010 Why? Ugliest stock MagPul makes... Uggh!... Just my $0.02 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 28, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 28, 2010 Well, I ordered all the parts yesterday: - External receiver block and pignose adapter from CSS - That M16 receiver extension from Bravo Company - PRS MAG308 for $190 on eBay Hopefully, everything will get here soon. Can't wait! I will post pics after I install it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
choobie 5 Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Why? Ugliest stock MagPul makes... Uggh!... Just my $0.02 I like the cheek rest, that's why! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 OK... So, I got my parts in today and put everything together. The stock is awesome. Problem: with an external receiver block, the whole thing is way too long (not to mention lame looking)! Even after I moved my scope all the way back on the BP-02 mount and managed to get acceptable eye relief, the cheek rest ended up being too far back to be of any use. Sure was a big disappointment. I mean, one of the main selling points of this stock is the neat, adjustable cheek rest. Then, I remembered that I had a beat up internal receiver block, with a broken screw stuck in one of the side holes, in my spare parts bin. Decided to go ahead and chop off the tang and install that. After I chopped it off and grounded it down, I painted the exposed metal with Duplicolor 500 Degree Engine Enamel and am currently waiting for the paint to cure. One of the "legs" on the internal receiver block was hitting the Tapco retainer plate, preventing the block from going all the way in, so I had to take a dremel to it too. One concern that I have is: naturally, my S308 doesn't have the 4 holes on the side on the receiver left after the conversion. I am wondering whether the block will be installed securely enough using just the hand grip bushing and the top screw to hold it down. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Yeah, it should be secure enough, but... Just for my peace of mind, I'd drill the two rearmost holes in the receiver and further secure it. Looking forward to pics of it completed. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted October 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Yeah, it should be secure enough, but... Just for my peace of mind, I'd drill the two rearmost holes in the receiver and further secure it. Looking forward to pics of it completed. I just put everything together and waiting for the LocTite to cure before I take her out shooting. Definitely looks better (vs the external receiver block) and the length is just right now. BTW, my PRS is the 308 version. It must be longer than the regular one. This stock is definitely hefty, adding a bit of weight to the rifle, but at the same time, kind of balances it out, due to the fact that the rifle is rather front heavy. Yeah, I am a little concerned about how well the internal receiver block is going to stay there without being secured through the side holes. Really don't feel like doing more work on this rifle tho. Can't use the two rear holes on the receiver block any way, because one of the holes has a broken screw in it (from a botched S12 installation a while ago). If I were to drill the side holes, some times in future, what would be the best way to measure where to drill them? I mean, it would have to be rather precise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Hello I've side drilled and tapped all of my internal receiver blocks, I've found the top and bottom mounts by themselves don't do a very good job. If you're just drilling blind holes, as long as they are located kind of symetrically on the receiver, you shouldn't have to measure very close. Just make sure you drill into the "meat" of the block. Drill a small hole through both items at the same time to locate the holes you will be drilling later. Big in the receiver, for a bolt, and smaller in the block, to be tapped. JMHO.... -guido Yeah, it should be secure enough, but... Just for my peace of mind, I'd drill the two rearmost holes in the receiver and further secure it. Looking forward to pics of it completed. I just put everything together and waiting for the LocTite to cure before I take her out shooting. Definitely looks better (vs the external receiver block) and the length is just right now. BTW, my PRS is the 308 version. It must be longer than the regular one. This stock is definitely hefty, adding a bit of weight to the rifle, but at the same time, kind of balances it out, due to the fact that the rifle is rather front heavy. Yeah, I am a little concerned about how well the internal receiver block is going to stay there without being secured through the side holes. Really don't feel like doing more work on this rifle tho. Can't use the two rear holes on the receiver block any way, because one of the holes has a broken screw in it (from a botched S12 installation a while ago). If I were to drill the side holes, some times in future, what would be the best way to measure where to drill them? I mean, it would have to be rather precise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 My internal receiver block already has four tapped holes in it, but the right rear hole has a broken screw lodged in it. I would have to drill the receiver to line up with the two front holes in the receiver block. Hello I've side drilled and tapped all of my internal receiver blocks, I've found the top and bottom mounts by themselves don't do a very good job. If you're just drilling blind holes, as long as they are located kind of symetrically on the receiver, you shouldn't have to measure very close. Just make sure you drill into the "meat" of the block. Drill a small hole through both items at the same time to locate the holes you will be drilling later. Big in the receiver, for a bolt, and smaller in the block, to be tapped. JMHO.... -guido Yeah, it should be secure enough, but... Just for my peace of mind, I'd drill the two rearmost holes in the receiver and further secure it. Looking forward to pics of it completed. I just put everything together and waiting for the LocTite to cure before I take her out shooting. Definitely looks better (vs the external receiver block) and the length is just right now. BTW, my PRS is the 308 version. It must be longer than the regular one. This stock is definitely hefty, adding a bit of weight to the rifle, but at the same time, kind of balances it out, due to the fact that the rifle is rather front heavy. Yeah, I am a little concerned about how well the internal receiver block is going to stay there without being secured through the side holes. Really don't feel like doing more work on this rifle tho. Can't use the two rear holes on the receiver block any way, because one of the holes has a broken screw in it (from a botched S12 installation a while ago). If I were to drill the side holes, some times in future, what would be the best way to measure where to drill them? I mean, it would have to be rather precise. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Here are the pics of this stock installed with an internal receiver block: I think that it looks great and feels pretty great too. Unfortunately, after I was done shooting the gun today, I noticed that the receiver block had come out of the receiver by a few millimeters. Keep it mind that I tightened the hand grip and the top screws really tight (freakishly strong hands here) and used LocTite. I whacked the stock and pushed it back in, but obviously, this isn't going to work in the long run. I need to drill some holes on the sides of the receiver and secure this receiver block properly. This is very frustrating and disappointing, especially in combination with the POSP scope sighting issues I was having. I am sick of messing with this gun already. I'm going to have to take my SGL21 out hunting instead. I'd like to drill a couple of holes in the receiver to line up with the two front screw holes on the receiver block, but I need to figure out how to drill these in the right places. Any advice on how to do this would be appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ChileRelleno 7,071 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Pretty straight forward, measure block/holes, insert block and measure receiver appropriately. Remember to take into account the receivers thickness. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Hello Or, if you're drilling into "virgin" territory, just do as above and bore a small 1/8" or so pilot hole to locate your subsequent final holes. Only measurements required are to make sure you don't get into an existing hole on your block (if there are any) and to ensure that they are spaced kind of evenly. Just put the block in and drill the small holes while it's in place and you'll know they line up. -guido Quote Link to post Share on other sites
getitat 609 Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Hello Forgot to add: I have the PRS on my RRA .308, like the stock a lot, but I had to smooth the rear of the cheek riser down a bit, it was tearing my face up on recoil. I may try a bit of foam adhered to it, like the Ace stocks. There's a short rail under the cap on the bottom of the stock for I guess, among other things, a monopod, but I have yet to find a short, railed, monopod available anywhere. Magpul used to sell a short threaded one for their Gen.1 model, but no sign of one for this model. -guido Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 actually i just completed my conversion last night. i personally think the PRS is str8 pimpin. I havent had a chance to shoot it yet, but just holding it up it feels so comfortable. and once you adjust the cheek and LOP its ridiculously personal. feels like this rifle was molded for me. However, i also added in a folding stock mechanism. That buffer tube will not work for the PRS. for the PRS you have to buy the internal receiver block (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-372/Saiga-AK47-Internal-Stock/Detail), a buffer tube adapter (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-170/ACE-CAR15-SAIGA-AK47/Detail), and a rifle receiver A2 extension tube (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Receiver%20Extension%20M16%20Rifle). M4 buffer tubes WILL NOT WORK. the M16 A2 extension is the only tube the PRS will fit. Hey. I don't see any holes for the receiver block on your rifle... Have you shot it much? How's that receiver block holding for you? It's a CSS block, right? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Pretty straight forward, measure block/holes, insert block and measure receiver appropriately. Remember to take into account the receivers thickness. Thanks, Chile. I assume the drill bit size to use is 3/16"? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Just got an idea of how to secure that pesky receiver block in there without drilling any holes in the receiver. I remembered that there is a hole that's left over from the conversion. It's on the bottom of the receiver, about half a cm away from the back. Here's a pic: I am thinking, what if I tap the internal receiver block right over this hole and put a nice, long screw through that? It seems to me like that would do. What do you guys think? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
s2thalayer 13 Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 (edited) actually i just completed my conversion last night. i personally think the PRS is str8 pimpin. I havent had a chance to shoot it yet, but just holding it up it feels so comfortable. and once you adjust the cheek and LOP its ridiculously personal. feels like this rifle was molded for me. However, i also added in a folding stock mechanism. That buffer tube will not work for the PRS. for the PRS you have to buy the internal receiver block (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-372/Saiga-AK47-Internal-Stock/Detail), a buffer tube adapter (http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com/servlet/-strse-170/ACE-CAR15-SAIGA-AK47/Detail), and a rifle receiver A2 extension tube (http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Receiver%20Extension%20M16%20Rifle). M4 buffer tubes WILL NOT WORK. the M16 A2 extension is the only tube the PRS will fit. Hey. I don't see any holes for the receiver block on your rifle... Have you shot it much? How's that receiver block holding for you? It's a CSS block, right? sorry im so late getting back to you, havent been on here in a while. I have all the same parts as you, infact mine is even LESS secure screw wise and thought the same thing you do. i bought the CSS block, but i also modified my rifle for an AR trigger guard which mounts differently and doesnt allow a pistol grip nut like on normal conversions...the pistol grip instead attaches directly to the trigger guard. When i asked greg he had told me putting my pistol grip nut on top of the block along with the top mounting screw is plenty secure if i dont have the holes drilled. However there is no way i was relying on the top screw alone. my solution, i JB welded the shit out of it. covered the whole reciever block with the JB weld, stuck it in there and tightened the top screw as tight as it will go. i had some wobbling before, but after that there is absolutely no movement anywhere. Of course, it is now likely permanently attached, so im not sure if thats what you want, but i dont plan on ever changing out the stock. i havent put it under any excessive punishment or shooting, but ive put a few rounds through it with no problems...and i wouldnt expect the top screw along with excessive help from JB weld to fail. Glad to hear you cut off the tang. im not a fan of external blocks. i have an external block with Tapco T6 stock on my 7.62 (not the one with built in PG), and i like it, but like you said, it doesnt feel comfortable. ill probably eventually take that thing off and cut the tang on that one too. Edited November 2, 2010 by s2thalayer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BrutalGardener 205 Posted November 2, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 sorry im so late getting back to you, havent been on here in a while. I have all the same parts as you, infact mine is even LESS secure screw wise and thought the same thing you do. i bought the CSS block, but i also modified my rifle for an AR trigger guard which mounts differently and doesnt allow a pistol grip nut like on normal conversions...the pistol grip instead attaches directly to the trigger guard. When i asked greg he had told me putting my pistol grip nut on top of the block along with the top mounting screw is plenty secure if i dont have the holes drilled. I might be secure enough for most stocks, but the PRS is a friggin' beast heft-wise! When the recoil kicks it back, it just wants to pop that thing out. What made it come out a few mm for me, was probably when I dumped a mag off the hip at the end of my shooting session. As I mentioned, I really tightened the hell out of everything and did use LocTite. Doesn't seem to be enough, at least not for off the hip shooting. Well, there is one way I could get in on tighter... The way that the MD Arms Molot grip is designed, the screw head starts going right through the plastic base on the bottom if you screw it in too tight. I've ruined the plastic base on one of them before, by tightening the screw until it went all the way through the plastic! LOL. Mike was nice enough to send me another base. I am thinking that, in this case, if I used some kind of a spacer/washer, to more evenly distribute the pressure on that plastic base, I could get the grip screw tighter, without going through the base. However there is no way i was relying on the top screw alone. my solution, i JB welded the shit out of it. covered the whole reciever block with the JB weld, stuck it in there and tightened the top screw as tight as it will go. i had some wobbling before, but after that there is absolutely no movement anywhere. Of course, it is now likely permanently attached, so im not sure if thats what you want, but i dont plan on ever changing out the stock. i havent put it under any excessive punishment or shooting, but ive put a few rounds through it with no problems...and i wouldnt expect the top screw along with excessive help from JB weld to fail. Yeah, the top screw alone is definitely not enough, especially considering how it goes through that free-floating washer, instead of a tapped hole. The JB Weld solution is a bit too messy and permanent for my tastes. I would rather just drill a couple of holes on the side of the receiver here. I think that's what I am going to do here, once my buddy with a drill press gets back in town. By the way, I considered a folding mechanism, but decided against it. It adds another point of failure for the PRS' heft to work its "magic" on, while it swings on there. Plus, I plan on always keeping something attached to the optics side mount, preventing the stock from folding all the way. I actually just went ahead and ordered this part: http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saiga-internal-stock-adapter-for-ar-stock-p-814.html Glad to hear you cut off the tang. im not a fan of external blocks. i have an external block with Tapco T6 stock on my 7.62 (not the one with built in PG), and i like it, but like you said, it doesnt feel comfortable. ill probably eventually take that thing off and cut the tang on that one too. You know, I am having regrets about cutting that tang. I kind of wish I just kept that Choate drag stock on there. Without the tang, I also lost the option of using a Beryl mount in the future. As far as external blocks, I have one built into my K-Var triangle folder that's on my SGL21. That stock actually ends up being the perfect length for me and offers good ergonomics and cheek-weld. The only problem I have with it is the "looks". The external block definitely made the PRS sit too far back though, but then again, it could only be because my PRS is the AR10 version, with the cheek rest sitting further back... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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