Quad Rails

[TARE 47]

When it comes to quad aluminum rails for Saiga-12s what are your experiences and preferences?

 

I'm considering adding one to my set-up to hold an optic like the fast fire, a forward hand grip, and possibly a light.

 

I prefer the non-extended rails but weigh in on your preference there as well.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

I've owned a couple. The first I bought was one of the early Kross tri-rails, (gen 1). It was nice and light, and very well made, but would not stay securely installed on my S-12, (gotta love how these guns are only approximately identical), under heavy recoil, (high-brass). However, I understand that this early design problem has been addressed, and Zach, (owner of Kross), was extremely helpful in trying to help me get it to work. Ultimately, I couldn't, and Zach was willing to give me a full refund for the part. He is a great guy to do business with.

 

Then I bought a Chaos tri/quad rail, (non-extended model). It's an extremely high-quality part and installed on my gun with no problems whatsoever. It never showed any signs of moving under recoil. I used it briefly until I got my S-12 back from Lone Star Arms, (the first time). Mike, (owner of Lone Star), customized the factory handguard in such a way that I decided to use it instead, since I wasn't really using the rails on the Chaos part. That reminds me, I still have that barely-used tri-rail, (with attachable top rail, so it could easily be a quad-rail), and I probably should sell it, as it's just collecting dust atm. If anyone's interested in purchasing it, PM me and we'll talk details.

Edited October 25, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[Bridis 319]

One word, Chaos.

 

 

End of story.

[TARE 47]

I've owned a couple. The first I bought was one of the early Kross tri-rails, (gen 1). It was nice and light, and very well made, but would not stay securely installed on my S-12, (gotta love how these guns are only approximately identical), under heavy recoil, (high-brass). However, I understand that this early design problem has been addressed, and Zach, (owner of Kross), was extremely helpful in trying to help me get it to work. Ultimately, I couldn't, and Zach was willing to give me a full refund for the part. He is a great guy to do business with.

 

Then I bought a Chaos tri/quad rail, (non-extended model). It's an extremely high-quality part and installed on my gun with no problems whatsoever. It never showed any signs of moving under recoil. I used it briefly until I got my S-12 back from Lone Star Arms, (the first time). Mike, (owner of Lone Star), customized the factory handguard in such a way that I decided to use it instead, since I wasn't really using the rails on the Chaos part. That reminds me, I still have that barely-used tri-rail, (with attachable top rail, so it could easily be a quad-rail), and I probably should sell it, as it's just collecting dust atm. If anyone's interested in purchasing it, PM me and we'll talk details.

 

Thanks, this is the kind of feedback I can really use; what you tried, and what worked, no except my opinion without validation comment

[JAldrich2008 28]

The Chaos rails are still on sale as far as I know. Get one while you can! www.chaosus.com

[ErikTaylor 41]

Tare, there are a lot of nice rail systems out there. I originally went with the MAA (Mississippi Auto Arms) quad rail, mainly because I got such a good deal on them. They installed without a problem and did not move at all, and were a great set of rails. However they were a little heavy, and with me welding HK sights on my S12 I had to move to a tri rail platform, so I chose the Chaos. Heard nothing but great things about them, and you really can't beat the $78 price tag.

 

If you do go with a quad rail system do some research about them prior to purchase because certain brands do mess up the harmonics of the S12 system and cause FTE. Now that Mike (Lone Star Arms) sent me the video I can finally reference it. Just food for thought!

 

Edited October 26, 2010 by ErikTaylor

[Parson Julabee Jones 32]

I added a UTG quad rail to my gun, and thereupon placed a Konus Red Dot sight, a vertical grip (if you're going to use a 20 drum, the vertical grip helps you to reach around the drum to address the forearm), a set of metal back up sights, a TLR-1 light, a bipod and a sling....not to mention the TAPCO telescoping stock.

 

All of it added up and counted, really looked tactically cool...but the bloomin' thing wouldn't shoot for nothing, unless using the gun as a single shot is your ideal of a proper HD weapon.

 

The back up sights were too high, the bipod was every bit as useful as a broken leg, the Red Dot sight the answer to a non-existent question (after all, it's a shotgun, right? And shotguns have for centuries served just fine with beads)....to put it briefly, the way back to proper shooting success was the removal of all that stuff. So, when I had removed it, and had the gun shooting beautifully again, I thought, "Well, maybe just the quad rail". I added that back on, and once again, lived a short life of single shot shotgun ownership yet again.

 

So today, at which point I now pronouce the gun fit, reliable and suitable (a personal evaluation, but when it comes to home defense, it's all personal) for my use as a home defense weapon, it has on it ONLY the light, which I've mounted using a $4.99, very small and light mounting bracket from ULTIMATE ARMS, and MD V-plug. All else resides in a drawer in the bottom of an empty gun cabinet which holds only those sorts of things.

 

So, I too have an extra quad rail, TAPCO stock, vertical grip and so forth available for sale or preferably, in trade for PANCHO'S MEXICAN BUFFET Restaurant's CHILI RELLENO recipe....and I'd figure I'd have gotten the best of that deal....

 

PJJ

[ErikTaylor 41]

Oh and also to add if you are wanting to put some sort of red dot I would suggest something very low profile...like a Fast Fire II, Dr. Optics, Optima, or something of the sorts. Reasoning being with my experience if I put an aimpoint or Eotech on the rail system I would either have to take my cheek off my stock or create a cheek rest/riser to get my cheek weld higher to see through the aimpoint or eotech. The cheaper sights (airsoft quality) will not last on these weapons. My buddies have bought airsoft one's 10 times over, and probably spent more than I did on my higher dollar optic.

[Prometheus 7]

I added a UTG quad rail to my gun,

<snip>

So, when I had removed it, and had the gun shooting beautifully again, I thought, "Well, maybe just the quad rail". I added that back on, and once again, lived a short life of single shot shotgun ownership yet again.

 

I'm curious as to why the UTG rail made it single shot. It appears to just clamp on, I'm not seeing where it replaced the current gas tube or in any way affects the gas system or travel of the bolt, carrier, charging handle ect. ect.

 

I'm curious because I like the looks of it and was planning on buying one. I don't want to hang all the stuff on it, but a forward grip on this type of shotgun is a real benefit IMO.

[ErikTaylor 41]

IIRC UTG was one of the brands that messed up the harmonics of the barrel cause FTE's (single shot as been put in this thread).

 

ETA: Not that putting a UTG on every gun will mess it up, or any rail system for that matter. However some are more prone to cause this symptom than others.

Edited October 26, 2010 by ErikTaylor

[Brix 1]

If u do order chaos make sure its AVAILABLE (in stock) unless waiting a couple months doesn't bother you.

[Prometheus 7]

IIRC UTG was one of the brands that messed up the harmonics of the barrel cause FTE's (single shot as been put in this thread).

 

ETA: Not that putting a UTG on every gun will mess it up, or any rail system for that matter. However some are more prone to cause this symptom than others.

 

Hmmm... My S12 is finicky with some bird shot. If you don't hold it tight to your shoulder, it can shortstroke. I can only guess that people with the added weight on the front and possibly in conjunction with pushing forward on the forward grip, can cause this same problem.

 

I seriously doubt the "harmonic change" of the barrel is causing that sort of problem.

[ErikTaylor 41]

If you watch the video I referenced in an earlier post you'll see what I mean. I'll see if I can get Mike in here to explain the technical aspect of it so it's not just some joe smoe making crap up...

[PVT Pablo 25]

I have a kross tri-rail and after the whole screw issue was figured out it was great. Its been on my gun for a year now and its doing great.

 

I think the kross rail is the lightest, but I may be wrong.

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

What happens with some quad rail designs is that the top rail acts as a damper - absorbing, and conducting energy away from the gas block and into the larger metal rail assembly. Remove the top rail, and the conductive dampening effect is also removed.

 

This is especially true of the old Halo quad rail, and I have seen it happen with UTG Saiga 12 quad rails as well. Additionally, watch out for rails that block the gas relief port near the rear of the gas block. Obstruction of the relief port also interferes with the overall efficiency of the gas system.

 

Mike

[ErikTaylor 41]

What happens with some quad rail designs is that the top rail acts as a damper - absorbing, and conducting energy away from the gas block and into the larger metal rail assembly. Remove the top rail, and the conductive dampening effect is also removed.

 

This is especially true of the old Halo quad rail, and I have seen it happen with UTG Saiga 12 quad rails as well. Additionally, watch out for rails that block the gas relief port near the rear of the gas block. Obstruction of the relief port also interferes with the overall efficiency of the gas system.

 

Mike

 

Well put. Very good info regarding blocking the relief port. There is a thread floating around here where a guy is modded his S12 and plugged the relief port in the gas block (welded it shut IIRC). Either having it blocked by welding it shut or blocked by a rail system can negatively affect your reliability!

[Prometheus 7]

What happens with some quad rail designs is that the top rail acts as a damper - absorbing, and conducting energy away from the gas block and into the larger metal rail assembly. Remove the top rail, and the conductive dampening effect is also removed.

 

 

Thank you.

 

What rails would you recommend? Also, would not installing the top rail on the UTG remove that effect, or would it not because there is still (what appears to me) to be a lot of metal above it.

 

I don't need a top rail, I had just liked the looks.

[Bridis 319]

Buy a Chaos rail and throw the UTG in the garbage.

[Prometheus 7]

Buy a Chaos rail and throw the UTG in the garbage.

 

I don't want to remove the rear sight.

 

Anyone have any experience with the carolina shooters tri and quad rail? Looks nice, I'm ordering my trigger guard from them anyway, so I could combine shipping.

[ErikTaylor 41]

I was real close to ordering one of those from Greg. Chaos was a few bucks cheaper. Mine should be here any day now. However if you order from Greg you can't beat his shipping. Everytime I order something I have it in my hands 2 days later!

[Lone Star Arms 2,047]

What happens with some quad rail designs is that the top rail acts as a damper - absorbing, and conducting energy away from the gas block and into the larger metal rail assembly. Remove the top rail, and the conductive dampening effect is also removed.

 

 

Thank you.

 

What rails would you recommend? Also, would not installing the top rail on the UTG remove that effect, or would it not because there is still (what appears to me) to be a lot of metal above it.

 

I don't need a top rail, I had just liked the looks.

 

I use a CSS tri rail on my select fire S12. I also like the Kross and Chaos tri rails. All are top notch.

 

The UTG set up does run better if only the lower rail is installed.

[ErikTaylor 41]

If you can try to find out what brand it was. This whole debate got me thinking we should create some kind of thread regarding rail systems with the S12's as a buyers guide for people looking to upgrade but don't want to buy something that will cause problems.

[ErikTaylor 41]

I am going to go ahead and create one. I'm debating if I should do the poll where people poll which one's don't work, or which one's do. I was thinking polling which one's do work but then it will sidestep the ultimate question. I do agree with you that if we labeled which one's don't work it may tar a company, but if they are producing products that aren't working correctly then people should know. IDK. I'll figure it out as I go.

[shades_of_grey 1,092]

Buy a Chaos rail and throw the UTG in the garbage.

 

I don't want to remove the rear sight...

 

 

You don't have to if you use the "original" Chaos top-rail, (turns the tri into a quad). Oddly, Chaos doesn't seem to make em, (or sell em), anymore, but I've still got one...

Edited October 26, 2010 by post-apocalyptic

[22_Shooter 1,560]

I won a free Chaos quad rail here awhile ago. The lower tri-rail has been on my S12 ever since, and hasn't left it. (I don't use the top rail, purely because I don't need it. Not because there's anything wrong with it.)

 

It's been great to me. I recommend it.