Is there a Rifle Caliber Encyclopedia?

[Darko 42]

I'm pretty new to the world of rifles, and I've been trying to learn all I can, but it seems that most "which caliber saiga is for me" threads that come up in the search are full of a thousand different subjective opinions that are not helping me much. It'd be nice if I could find some sort of reference that had simple information about each caliber saiga rifle without all the subjective stuff. Does such thread or resource exist? For example.

 

Caliber: (7.62x39/.223/.308/5.45 etc...)

Range: (yds)

Recoil: (light/medium/heavy)

Game Type: (CXP1/2/3)

Ammo Supply: (plentiful/average/rare)

Ammo Weight: (per 100 rounds)

Ammo Cost: (cents per round)

Mags Available: (10/12/20/30drums)

 

 

I was just making that up as I went along, but you get the idea. is there anything out there like this? Thanks!

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

Caliber: (7.62x39/.223/.308/5.45 etc...)

Range: (yds)

Recoil: (light/medium/heavy)

Game Type: (CXP1/2/3)

Ammo Supply: (plentiful/average/rare)

Ammo Weight: (per 100 rounds)

Ammo Cost: (cents per round)

Mags Available: (10/12/20/30drums)

 

Well, as far as caliber wars go, that argument is as old as the internet itself and you will likely just end up more confused the more you read.

 

As far as range goes, the limiting factor in these guns becomes the gun itself and not the round. For example a bolt action .308, you could do 600-800 yards, but with a sloppy Saiga action, you won't get anywhere close to 800 yards. Figure that any of the rifle caliber Saigas in the hands of a good shooter are effective for pizza-pie sized groups out to 300 yards or so, with a few outliers and people who have done 400 with all and 500 with the .308, 5.45 and .223.

 

For recoil, .223 and 5.45 have virtually none especially with a good muzzle brake, x39 has a decent kick but still pretty mild as far as rifles go especially with a brake. .308 kicks like a full size rifle would.

 

.308 and x39 would be good for most deer, hogs, etc. It depends where you live and what kind of deer, scrawny southern deer you can probably hunt humanely with a 5.45 or .223 with the right ammo but it wouldn't be so effective on some of their beefier northern cousins.

 

At the moment ammo is plentiful for all. .308 and .223 can be had in both foreign bulk as well as premium domestic match grade along with plenty of reloading stuff. 7.62x39 has no shortage of commercial Russian and some US manufacturers make some premium loads for it. 5.45 has an abundance of mil-surp at the moment as well as foreign commercial but hardly any at all domestic and no reloading tools.

 

.223 and 5.45 are the lightest per 100 rounds, much lighter than 100 x39 and considerably lighter than 100 rounds .308.

 

Cost per round will change often, but Russian bulk in all calibers is very affordable at the moment, check out some local places and ammo websites.

 

5,10,15,20 and 30 round magazines are readily available for x39 and .223. 308 mags are also available in all sizes as well but a little more expensive. 5.45 you are vastly limited by magazines to just the standard 30s which are readily available, or scrounging up factory 10's that can be very rare and pricey.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[mrmallek 53]

Check here

 

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.rifle-cartridges-ballistics.html

 

my advance apologies if this post violates any forum rules

[Darko 42]

Caliber: (7.62x39/.223/.308/5.45 etc...)

Range: (yds)

Recoil: (light/medium/heavy)

Game Type: (CXP1/2/3)

Ammo Supply: (plentiful/average/rare)

Ammo Weight: (per 100 rounds)

Ammo Cost: (cents per round)

Mags Available: (10/12/20/30drums)

 

Well, as far as caliber wars go, that argument is as old as the internet itself and you will likely just end up more confused the more you read.

 

As far as range goes, the limiting factor in these guns becomes the gun itself and not the round. For example a bolt action .308, you could do 600-800 yards, but with a sloppy Saiga action, you won't get anywhere close to 800 yards. Figure that any of the rifle caliber Saigas in the hands of a good shooter are effective for pizza-pie sized groups out to 300 yards or so, with a few outliers and people who have done 400 with all and 500 with the .308, 5.45 and .223.

 

For recoil, .223 and 5.45 have virtually none especially with a good muzzle brake, x39 has a decent kick but still pretty mild as far as rifles go especially with a brake. .308 kicks like a full size rifle would.

 

.308 and x39 would be good for most deer, hogs, etc. It depends where you live and what kind of deer, scrawny southern deer you can probably hunt humanely with a 5.45 or .223 with the right ammo but it wouldn't be so effective on some of their beefier northern cousins.

 

At the moment ammo is plentiful for all. .308 and .223 can be had in both foreign bulk as well as premium domestic match grade along with plenty of reloading stuff. 7.62x39 has no shortage of commercial Russian and some US manufacturers make some premium loads for it. 5.45 has an abundance of mil-surp at the moment as well as foreign commercial but hardly any at all domestic and no reloading tools.

 

.223 and 5.45 are the lightest per 100 rounds, much lighter than 100 x39 and considerably lighter than 100 rounds .308.

 

Cost per round will change often, but Russian bulk in all calibers is very affordable at the moment, check out some local places and ammo websites.

 

5,10,15,20 and 30 round magazines are readily available for x39 and .223. 308 mags are also available in all sizes as well but a little more expensive. 5.45 you are vastly limited by magazines to just the standard 30s which are readily available, or scrounging up factory 10's that can be very rare and pricey.

 

thanks Classy! that was all very helpful. and that link helped also Mark.

 

I think I might create some sort of database with some of that simple standard information. I know for a new guy like myself, i had no idea where to start with the various Saiga models, let alone other brands and calibers. I had no idea what was what, how big bullets were, etc... This has set me up nicely. thanks!

[Kliegl 304]

Bear in mind that a lot of it is subjective.

 

Some people consider X caliber to be heavy recoil, some think it light or middlin.

Some people say to hunt deer with X round, others will tell you that it either won't

kill it, or you'll never find it after it runs miles away and dies.

Some people will run steel cased rounds make in eastern Durkadurkastan, whereas

others reason it's worth 20 more cents a shot to be safe and use western ammo.

 

I would advise you not to make a database at all, or just for your personal records,

till you have learned a lot. For instance, say your database recommended Lake City

brass 5.56x45 for use in Remington semi-auto chambered in .223 Remington. They're

the same bullet and the same case, so it should work, right? Then some guy does

it and the gun blows up on him since your database didn't cover that the max

pressure of the military NATO round is much higher than civilian .223

 

Not trying to scare you, but, anything on the internet can and will be used

in today's litigious society to sue the shit out of anyone they can for someone

failing to do their own homework. So, be careful, and, if you DO do this, put

a hefty disclaimer on every page so no one comes after you.

[Mayor Al 41]

The Gun Digest Annual and Annual Shooter's Bible and probably some others I am forgetting have chapters with Balistic Charts and comparisons of one round to another, and one company to another. They run about $20 if bought new, but you can find them on Ebay or used books, or even at the Public Library for years after the newer editions come out. I paid $6 plus $2 for postage for a 2010 edition recently...the 2011 is out, so this is "out-of-date" now.

 

They apparently don't think much of SAIGA as they have a brief description of the S-12 but no photo in the listings for semi-auto shotguns.

[beefcakeb99 572]

Caliber: (7.62x39/.223/.308/5.45 etc...)

Range: (yds)

Recoil: (light/medium/heavy)

Game Type: (CXP1/2/3)

Ammo Supply: (plentiful/average/rare)

Ammo Weight: (per 100 rounds)

Ammo Cost: (cents per round)

Mags Available: (10/12/20/30drums)

 

As far as range goes, the limiting factor in these guns becomes the gun itself and not the round. For example a bolt action .308, you could do 600-800 yards, but with a sloppy Saiga action, you won't get anywhere close to 800 yards.

You must have missed the Guerrilla Sniper class article wherein two 308 saigas were keeping up with the entire class one of which out to 600* and the other out to 1000 with the rest of the class...

others have been out to 700 if my memory serves me correctly...So believe what you wish, but I will disagree with classy and say that 1000 meter hits are possible

 

edit: 600*

Edited December 20, 2010 by beefcakeb0

[Klassy Kalashnikov 1,393]

You must have missed the Guerrilla Sniper class article wherein two 308 saigas were keeping up with the entire class one of which out to 600* and the other out to 1000 with the rest of the class...

others have been out to 700 if my memory serves me correctly...So believe what you wish, but I will disagree with classy and say that 1000 meter hits are possible

 

edit: 600*

 

It could very well be possible. I did not see the article but am interested in seeing it now that you mention it. Did they do any heavy modifications to the guns or were they more or less typical S-308s?

Edited December 20, 2010 by Classy Kalashnikov

[BpS12 512]

Alot depends on one finetuning oneself to the gun. I knew an SF sniper that once said he could get 600+yd body hits even with a standard AK after putting a couple rounds downrange. His words, not mine and I never saw him do it, but have had no reason to doubt.

 

And Saigas seem to be just about as varied in their handleing as are their shooters. Ballistic tables are base lines for the rounds. The rest is up to you.