JesusCow 1 Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 I'm not sure what exactly I want. Although, I'm pretty sure I want it to be a semi-auto, high-caliber, military-type rifle. It'll be a while before I get it and I have a realistic maximum budget of $1500 if it's something I want. FALs I've been looking at DSArms stuff. - SA58 Collector Series - these are damn sexy, but maybe a little heavy ~$1700 - SA58 Hunter Series - has a few options, nice carbine look ~1600-2200 - I also could settle on one of their 4 slightly different Austrian STG58 $1000-1100: Austrian STG58 - nice looking, better price than the SA58 - Another FAL type appealing is this one from Entreprise Arms Standard STG58 for $600 (usually $999) - AR type rifles - Bushmaster BAR-10 (.308 takes FAL mags) - cool muzzle break, and good looks Anyways, I'll be adding as I keep looking and contemplating. There is a gun show every third weekend of the month so I'll be keeping my eyes peeled so I can judge what I want easier once I hold some different rifles. Please give me suggestions! -Willie Quote Link to post Share on other sites
duffman 1 Posted February 16, 2004 Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 Sounds like your pretty set on a 7.62X51 round for your next purchase. If it were I, I would have to go with an M-14. Have seen some real nice ones around. I am kind of looking at them myself, but don't plan on one for a while yet. Already have a FAL (DSArms STG58) and a CETME (the good one with the stainless cast receiver) both are good shooters and enjoy them both. There is just something about that M-14 look I like over the FAL and CETME. Either way, get the one that YOU like best and not what others like. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusCow 1 Posted February 16, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2004 (edited) thanks for the input! I've also always had my eye on the M1A Standard as well as the M1A Bush (walnut stocks of course). Both would really be awesome and fit my purpose well. Of course I'm talking about Springfield Armory What about some of the cheaper clones? I probably could spend 1000+ on my next rifle, but price will play a big part. Does Ruger make a .308 semi-auto? just check and this .44 mag looks kinda cool. does it have a rolling bolt design? Hell I may just see something I hadn't been considering on a table at a gun show that I really like for a good price and end up with that. Edited February 16, 2004 by JesusCow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Since you have shown an interest in AR-style rifles, if you are looking for something in that style, but would like a little versatility, you might look into an AR-15 in the new 6.8SPC cartridge. It is not as powerful (in terms of energy transfer) as the 308Win, but, the trajectory is pretty close and it won't beat your shoulder like a 308. You could start out with the 6.8SPC upper for big game, and get a flattop HB upper for varminting in .223Rem, a 9mm, 10mm, or 45ACP upper in a lightweight 16-inch barrel for plinking - all on the same receiver. There is also a 7.62x39 upper for the AR if you want to have ammo interchangeability with your AKs. Read about the 6.8x43 SPC at Remington's Ammo Page Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 I don't think the 308 beats my shoulder, but I tell ya, if I had an AR, I'd eventually get the .50cal upper! I saw it a few weeks ago...I'll find it when I have more time and post a link. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
chips 0 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 18, 2004 Report Share Posted February 18, 2004 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusCow 1 Posted February 26, 2004 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 (edited) Since you have shown an interest in AR-style rifles, if you are looking for something in that style, but would like a little versatility, you might look into an AR-15 in the new 6.8SPC cartridge. It is not as powerful (in terms of energy transfer) as the 308Win, but, the trajectory is pretty close and it won't beat your shoulder like a 308. You could start out with the 6.8SPC upper for big game, and get a flattop HB upper for varminting in .223Rem, a 9mm, 10mm, or 45ACP upper in a lightweight 16-inch barrel for plinking - all on the same receiver. There is also a 7.62x39 upper for the AR if you want to have ammo interchangeability with your AKs. Read about the 6.8x43 SPC at Remington's Ammo Page sounds very interesting and appealing. what companies produce rifles that use it? i'd rather not get an AR type rifle just yet, but i will still consider it since i'll probably finally be purchasing something around 4-6 months down the line edit: this AR upper was all i could find Edited February 26, 2004 by JesusCow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 I wouldn't get a new cartridge. I had a friend buy a .45 cal Glock...I warned him not to get the new 45 GLOCK caliber version (they are making their own bullet now!) He got the Glock 21 chambered in the classic 45ACP. I suggest you do the same. ...And what's up with everyone being unhappy with .308 cal recoil? Never did bother me in a semi-auto. Try a bolt action...now that has ummph! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 (edited) I hear what you are saying, KYSoldier. To me, the 308Win is a medium cartridge, and about minimum for a scout , sniper, or open terrain weapon. OTOH, having a cartridge that will fit in M16 mags and reach out to 600 yds and still have enough energy to reliably take deer sized game has some appeal. What I don't like about the 6.8 SPC is that (a ) it takes a special bolt face, because it is based on the .30 Rem case; (b ) it uses necessarily short projectiles because of the case length and O.A.L. requirements; and (c )there aren't many bullet choices in .277 (270 Win) compared to the alternatives. IMHO, the 6.5 Grendel is the better choice for the AR-15 platform. It fully exploits the accuracy potential of the platform. It is based on the 30 Russian Short/PPC family of cases, so it takes an already available bolt face. It can be loaded into the magazines with long-for-caliber projectiles as well as a plethora of projectile styles. It has equivalent downrange energy. About the only negative I can think of is that a 20 round mag would be much longer than a 20 rounder in 6.8 SPC. But that isn't really a problem for civilians right now. Edited February 26, 2004 by Sheik Yerbouti Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 26, 2004 Report Share Posted February 26, 2004 Yeah, I guess the goal is a .50cal for true punch...but way to heavy for anything but range shooting. I tell you though...I looked long and hard at the AR-30...but like other ARs, too much $$$. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DoubleD 0 Posted March 7, 2004 Report Share Posted March 7, 2004 Mebbe one of them ar-15s chambered in 50 beowulf Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusCow 1 Posted March 17, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2004 (edited) gun show this weekend i might have around $400 to spend (max) i want an AK variant, possibly (probably) a Saiga .223. i think my 20GA gets lonely and i cant justify paying more for something else when i could get a Saiga in whatever caliber i choose a .308 would be cool is the .308 less accurate than the .223, how about the 7.62x39? i would like to kill some deer soon and wouldn't mind having something bigger than a .223, but i want an opinion from y'all i would like to do a PG conversion on it eventually, but probably not a high-cap mag modification (unless something comes over me that urges me to do it) Edited March 17, 2004 by JesusCow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 20, 2004 Report Share Posted March 20, 2004 I would actually suggest that you buy a preban AR, as well as keep your ammo types common to the other guns that you own as best you can. MAKE SURE you do a lot of research on ARs before you buy a "preban" from ANY dealer you dont deal with normally and trust. Ive had guys try to pass off pinned, welded, you name it bushmaster POS, as preban. A good minimum price for a pre-ban AR is about 1000 bucks for A1 type carbines with some use. Colt, Eagle Arms, Olympic Arms, (what others did I miss you guys?) are the company names you want to see on the reciever whether or not you go the preban route. The REAL deal is you want a preban LOWER. You can put anything on top of it then, pre-post-whatever. You cant go the other way around. Stay clear of the FAL chop jobs. More than not are not headspaced properly or worse. You are gambling when you buy one of them from what Ive heard and read. Do your research! Another option is an SAR-1 in 7.62x39. They arent as bad as some ppl make them out to be. Good bang for the buck, I think, at 300-400 bucks. If you do a lot of range shooting, you might think along the lines of an M-14 done up nice. Lots of guys like the M-14, and you will have guys ask to shoot it more often than you would think if you are into the social aspect of it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 JesusCow can do what he wants, but his $400 budget isn't going to allow for a good FAL, M14, and certainly not a preban AR. I've been looking for the SAR1 locally with no luck...don't see it as a hunting weapon though. (plus a guy told me the MAK90 was better quality, he owned both) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 Yeh my SAR1 was pretty cheap. Forgot about that one. You want the serial # on the SAR1 to have the last four digits of 2002 or better. I believe that is the year imported, and the older ones have or develop some nasty trigger slap. Mine is a 2000, and after 500 rounds I start to feel it in my trigger finger. Quite annoying if you ask me. I might go through the trouble of having that fixed or just fix it myself if it doesnt wear down and start to go away soon. I still say SAVE YOUR MONEY and get a good preban AR!!!! They are not subject to the AWB rules regarding what you can or cannot put on it. put a flash supressor on it, put a drum mag to it, but a bayonet on it, put a bipod on it, put a collapsable stock on it. Best part is the number of conversion kits out there for the AR. One more option is a CETME rebuild of the hk-91's that are out there. Again you have to really try to get a newer imported serial # if you can to avoid some of the older one's sight pin problem, headspacing problem, etc. My local dealer has one for 350 on his rack from this past year that looks good to my eye. Most of the ones with the problems have wood furniture. The newer ones are almost all synthetics now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 22, 2004 Report Share Posted March 22, 2004 What causes that trigger slap? I felt it a little last time I went to the range. Good luck finding a pre-ban drum for AR. Cetme's are decent, but can't compare to the rest of the rifles mentioned so far. Mine looks awesome, but don't be confused, it can't be compared to the true HK model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 23, 2004 Report Share Posted March 23, 2004 Trigger slap on the SAR is fairly common. I believe its from the bolt pushing down onto the sear and trigger assembly when the action is cycled. Im going to have a machinist look at it that I know and see if he can shave it a little to take the slap out. The parts themselves are very rough looking, so I want to tidy them up a little bit anyway. Heres a link I found for one method of fixing it: http://linx310.nothingbutguns.com/slapfix.htm Like I said before, I live in a very collector-dense area, so I can find those AR drums still without much problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Yeah, I found that link too, I'm gonna check for that lousy disconnector design before I buy my next AK! Are you able to get the regular drum or the pre-ban C-Mag? I was under the impression they were rare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bone 0 Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 is the .308 less accurate than the .223, how about the 7.62x39? i would like to kill some deer soon and wouldn't mind having something bigger than a .223, but i want an opinion from y'all in michigan you cant hunt deer with a rifle smaller than 25 cal. and its illegal to carry a pistol smaller than 35 cal. afield during firearm deer season that makes the .223 too small for deer hunting Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusCow 1 Posted March 24, 2004 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 thanks for the ideas guys, i'm still in the decision making process and my $400 budget was just an estimate. i may spend more than that eventually, depending on the funds i have at the time and what is in front of me. i like the idea about the pre-ban AR-15 but i'm not sure i want to get into that quite yet. i'm thinking i might want my first ak variant (besides Saiga 20ga). an arsenal is looking mighty nice ($) right now. if i get bored i may go to a local gun store and see what they got in stock and what their prices are. i'll take pictures too. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 What? the AR mags? Yeh I can get them. Next time I am out gun shopping, Ill get prices and contact info for you if you want, KySoldier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 24, 2004 Report Share Posted March 24, 2004 Thanks for offer, but I don't need the prices since I don't have an AR, I'm just tired of them Makes me think of shooting with the army which isn't any fun. I'm wanting to get one in .308, think that'll be different, powerful, and fun...plus I got 308 already in stock! If only I could find an M4 version in 308 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 I think DPMS and Olympic make them actually.....Carbines in .308 that is. now a DRUM in .308, yeh that might be a little difficult. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 When you cay carbines in 308, do you mean the full size long range models I keep seeing or a short M4 style with pinned stock, etc? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bvamp 604 Posted March 25, 2004 Report Share Posted March 25, 2004 Uh, I mean carbine, dude. Short stocks, short buttstock, short barrel. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusCow 1 Posted April 8, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2004 (edited) im now really toying with the idea to get a CETME (followed by a .223 Saiga) i really like the look of the wood stock. what should the expected condition be on the stock? also, what would my chances of getting a reliable, straight shooter? Centerfire Systems wood - $350 Centerfire Systems black synthetic - $300 AIM Surplus wood stock - $360 AIM Surplus black synthetic - $310 any reasons to go with one company over the other (excluding price)? accessories: other stock options and scope mount... Edited April 8, 2004 by JesusCow Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 I got the synthetic CETME from Centerfire (back when muzzlebreaks were standard) Good gun overall...Lately I'm having problems feeding but I'm optomistic that me G3 mag that I got to fit will solve it. I put the wide HK forearm on it along with the claw scope mount. Would sell the mount to you if you get one since I don't shoot it much (since I got my Savage in 308 and new Saiga-12). Some people have horror stories about their CETMEs, but mine's a great looking gun that's fairly accurate...iron sights were right on when I bought it. Here's the pic I posted earlier... http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showto...findpost&p=5482 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JesusCow 1 Posted April 9, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 man that's nice i think i might end up getting a Saiga .223 first, then i can relax knowing i have a high powered rifle what comes next no one knows..! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 (edited) You calling the 223 a high powered rifle....I wouldn't go that far. I got a true Armalite AR-15 yesterday, 16in barrel with flattop receiver....not real happy with the caliber, but everyone's got them and parts/accessories are numerous. Recoil is almost nonexistent and accuracy is better than my AK or Cetme. Went ahead and put a red dot scope on it and a vertical grip (which I was going to put on my S-12 ) Edited April 12, 2004 by KySoldier Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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