First saiga 12 shooting today with friends.... epic failure

[surratt 3]

Well took it out today along with all my other guns for some casual clay shooting and screwing around. All my friends arent gun nuts except a couple of them so they were really impressed by my guns especially the saiga i have been setting up... it is an imposing weapon with the drum on it. Basically ive just converted it and got the bolt polished with an extended mag release and a css quad rail with a flashlight.

 

When it came time to shoot the saiga people were excited and so was i. I broke it in with some gun club remington 2 3/4 1 1/8 7.5 shot. Ofcourse I had failure to ejects. I fixed my failure to feed problem with my surefire mags by doing the much appreciated mod that i read on here by tnek of gluing a shimstock to the follower to prevent rocking. Id say every 3 or 4 rounds either wouldnt eject or would stovepipe and get caught up in the gun. Embarassing as fuck of course as they all wrote it off as a cheap gun. The gun ate up and dominated the buckshot i threw at it which was cool but i was not able to participate in the clay shooting.

 

So back to the lab and i gotta figure out what to do to make this thing run low brass light loads and still be able to sit beside my bed with buckshot loaded into it. Im going to try temporary installing the low brass css spring to see how that does even though most people here shit on it. I guess ill have to address the porting situation even though im a little unsure as to where to start. I know i see 3 hole thats about it.

 

For now the good old mossberg will have to handle the home defense duties until i can work out the kinks in the saiga.

 

Any thoughts appreciatted although im sure ill see a bunch of "use the search function" comments.

[vulcan16 971]

Gas port mod and a TAC47 auto-plug .

[Joesmoe 14]

Md arms plug and booster piston then I'd check the gas ports, dud these in that order to mine now it will take win #8 out of the drum one handed with no problems.

[Spartacus 1,619]

Md arms plug and booster piston then I'd check the gas ports, dud these in that order to mine now it will take win #8 out of the drum one handed with no problems.

 

+1

 

Yep, that was my thought exactly.

MD Arms V Plug and Booster piston.

 

 

http://mdarms.com/

Edited April 4, 2011 by Spartacus

[ChileRelleno 7,071]

I wouldn't say it was a epic failure, it apparently ran the buck just as it should.

Its a semi-auto combat shotgun designed to run high brass, WTF more do you want.... J/K

 

I wouldn't have brought it out to shoot clays until I knew it ran low brass like a duck swims in water.

Thats just asking for for your buddies to give you shit. Hell, using the Saiga to bust clays is going to catch you some hell in most circles, it just isn't the right tool for the job.

That said, I've had a blast doing just that, as have many others. My experiences have left me wanting a longer barrel and a good set of chokes.

 

Hope you work it out.

[jcmacconnell 25]

+1 to the tac47 auto plug and porting to 3/32. I am 100% with federal bulk from walmart.

[lbsrdi 1,078]

Was this the first time you shot it?

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

Gas port mod and a TAC47 auto-plug .

 

It's not like his gun could get any worse right? :lolol:

[Paulyski 2,227]

He has 3 ports, just over .070" & 2 are partially obstructed.

That's about equivalent to a two port 19" gun.

This is one situation where gas must be addressed.

Not by overgassing mind you, but by doing it right.

Give him a couple days.

It'll run like a raped ape soon.

[surratt 3]

Master Pauly is a saint..... so yeah i plan to address this porting situatuation this week and drill em to 3/32 and clear that gas block port up and hopefully ill be ready to go. Ill have to wait a couple weeks to redeem myself but it will be worth it. Ive got one friend in particular who loves his benelli who has been hating on my "jam-o-matic" since the day i bought it, so i cant wait to wipe that smile off his face with it. Oh and by the way that same guy complimented your glass bolt job pauly!

[Paulyski 2,227]

Glad he liked it.

[surratt 3]

Was this the first time you shot it?

 

Yep yep i busted my saiga 12 cherry in horrible fashion i might add

[P lang 51]

I know i see 3 hole thats about it.

 

 

check for a forth hole with a bent paper clip , if you can see three the forth maybe just outta view ,closer to you , then theres no need to worry about porting .

[surratt 3]

I wouldn't say it was a epic failure, it apparently ran the buck just as it should.

Its a semi-auto combat shotgun designed to run high brass, WTF more do you want.... J/K

 

I wouldn't have brought it out to shoot clays until I knew it ran low brass like a duck swims in water.

Thats just asking for for your buddies to give you shit. Hell, using the Saiga to bust clays is going to catch you some hell in most circles, it just isn't the right tool for the job.

That said, I've had a blast doing just that, as have many others. My experiences have left me wanting a longer barrel and a good set of chokes.

 

Hope you work it out.

 

Haha yeah i knew it was a gamble as to wether or not it cycle the light stuff and i said screw it. I was actually blasting the clays nicely in my one shot mode tho i must say.... the king of the day was his long barrel choked benelli. Yeah ill have it running smooth soon and ill post a redemption thread with a video of my Benelli friend apologizing to the saiga 12 forum community for his disrespect and lack of faith!

[surratt 3]

I know i see 3 hole thats about it.

 

 

check for a forth hole with a bent paper clip , if you can see three the forth maybe just outta view ,closer to you , then theres no need to worry about porting .

 

nah no 4th hole just too small at .07 and looks to be obstructed so ill try and deal with that this week

[Paulyski 2,227]

Depending on how much room you have without enlarging the gas block hole reward toward the receiver at all which could render your gas-plug ineffective, you could get away with adding just 1 .078.

 

If you have them at your disposal, you may want to try a slightly smaller bit than 3/32 such as a metric 2.2 or 2.3

Not sure if you have them in your shop though.

 

However, with your Gunfixr plug, you do have the ability to tune down.

[DrGonZo 157]

Did you make sure that your gas knob was on setting 2 when you were shooting the target loads? My gun would FTE and stove pipe the first few times I took it to the range, but with a little bit of polishing contact surfaces, a Gunfixer gas adjustment knob and some boxes of buck and slugs to break her in, she runs (as Pauly puts it) "like a raped ape". Now I take her out and shoot clays with my buddies and they are more than impressed with my sexy Russian beauty. Good luck and dont get discouraged.

 

 

 

ETA- Nevermind, I just saw that your 4th hole is slightly obstructed... you might have to deal with that, but if it cycles buck ok, then you might want to try just running some hot loads to break it in and see if it'll be fine with out any major modifications.

Edited April 4, 2011 by DrGonZo

[surratt 3]

hard to see in the pic but the bottom one closest to the reciever will require me to grind the gas block towards the receiver so i may think about the 4th hole scenario that may be a better way to go.

 

hard to see in the pic but the bottom one closest to the reciever will require me to grind the gas block towards the receiver so i may think about the 4th hole scenario that may be a better way to go.

[surratt 3]

Did you make sure that your gas knob was on setting 2 when you were shooting the target loads? My gun would FTE and stove pipe the first few times I took it to the range, but with a little bit of polishing contact surfaces, a Gunfixer gas adjustment knob and some boxes of buck and slugs to break her in, she runs (as Pauly puts it) "like a raped ape". Now I take her out and shoot clays with my buddies and they are more than impressed with my sexy Russian beauty. Good luck and dont get discouraged.

 

 

 

ETA- Nevermind, I just saw that your 4th hole is slightly obstructed... you might have to deal with that, but if it cycles buck ok, then you might want to try just running some hot loads to break it in and see if it'll be fine with out any major modifications.

 

ha i just got done watching fear and loathing in las vegas i love that freaking movie man! Yeah i tried it on both settings it did the same. It doesnt have 4 holes it has 3 but they are a little obstructed and too small apparently.

[surratt 3]

none of my holes are really fully obstructed the one in the upper right corner is pretty tight and the one closest to the reciever is right on the edge of the gas block tell me what you guys think of this pic that i posted of the ports. Pauly my ports arent near as bad as the pic in the thread that you sent me so im wondering if i should just drill em to 3?32 and forget about it

[DrGonZo 157]

Did you make sure that your gas knob was on setting 2 when you were shooting the target loads? My gun would FTE and stove pipe the first few times I took it to the range, but with a little bit of polishing contact surfaces, a Gunfixer gas adjustment knob and some boxes of buck and slugs to break her in, she runs (as Pauly puts it) "like a raped ape". Now I take her out and shoot clays with my buddies and they are more than impressed with my sexy Russian beauty. Good luck and dont get discouraged.

 

 

 

ETA- Nevermind, I just saw that your 4th hole is slightly obstructed... you might have to deal with that, but if it cycles buck ok, then you might want to try just running some hot loads to break it in and see if it'll be fine with out any major modifications.

 

ha i just got done watching fear and loathing in las vegas i love that freaking movie man! Yeah i tried it on both settings it did the same. It doesnt have 4 holes it has 3 but they are a little obstructed and too small apparently.

 

Fear and Loathing is one of the best movies ever made!

 

OK, I re-read your post and I get what you were saying, no 4th hole and the 3 that ARE there are too small... gotcha. Yeah, you're going to have to address that. Good luck and take your time with the port enlargement. I'm sure you can get a good walk through from other members for that process. Listen to Pauly, he seems to be the port/bolt guru around here.

[Paulyski 2,227]

hard to see in the pic but the bottom one closest to the reciever will require me to grind the gas block towards the receiver so i may think about the 4th hole scenario that may be a better way to go.

 

hard to see in the pic but the bottom one closest to the reciever will require me to grind the gas block towards the receiver so i may think about the 4th hole scenario that may be a better way to go.

Yes, the picture helps better than the discription over the phone.

Looks like when you clear that one you will indeed have the room for a #4.

 

However, with the friction reduction of GlassBolt, like I said up there, you could likely get away with enlarging to a metric 2.2 or 2.3 which would be 3@ .086 with a 2.2mm & 3@ .090 with a 2.3mm

 

And I'm not a saint.

Any time I hear about a previous customer having gun issues, I call them the moment I see it to attempt to troubleshoot.

 

This is included in the service & why I include the port gauges.

 

However, the other times it's been because once some paper wadding was jammed in a guy's gun locking it up & the other time it was an AK builder's trigger guard plate underneath the customer's hammer making it so it wouldn't go down due to a lack of clearence.

 

Both situations were quickly remedied.

[surratt 3]

hard to see in the pic but the bottom one closest to the reciever will require me to grind the gas block towards the receiver so i may think about the 4th hole scenario that may be a better way to go.

 

hard to see in the pic but the bottom one closest to the reciever will require me to grind the gas block towards the receiver so i may think about the 4th hole scenario that may be a better way to go.

Yes, the picture helps better than the discription over the phone.

Looks like when you clear that one you will indeed have the room for a #4.

 

However, with the friction reduction of GlassBolt, like I said up there, you could likely get away with enlarging to a metric 2.2 or 2.3 which would be 3@ .086 with a 2.2mm & 3@ .090 with a 2.3mm

 

And I'm not a saint.

Any time I hear about a previous customer having gun issues, I call them the moment I see it to attempt to troubleshoot.

 

This is included in the service & why I include the port gauges.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Judging by that picture and seeing how close the hole is to my gas block(closest to reciever) would you say it be best to drill the 4th hole or just drill the 3 out with a 3/32 bit which is a little over .090? If i drill the 4th i guess just do it at the same angle and in a diamond shape?

 

 

However, the other times it's been because once some paper wadding was jammed in a guy's gun locking it up & the other time it was an AK builder's trigger guard plate underneath the customer's hammer making it so it wouldn't go down due to a lack of clearence.

 

Both situations were quickly remedied.

 

 

 

[surratt 3]

Judging by that picture and seeing how close the hole is to my gas block(closest to reciever) would you say it be best to drill the 4th hole or just drill the 3 out with a 3/32 bit which is a little over .090? If i drill the 4th i guess just do it at the same angle and in a diamond shape

[Paulyski 2,227]

Judging by that picture and seeing how close the hole is to my gas block(closest to reciever) would you say it be best to drill the 4th hole or just drill the 3 out with a 3/32 bit which is a little over .090? If i drill the 4th i guess just do it at the same angle and in a diamond shape

In your case, since you'll have the room without extending the hole in your gas block toward the receiver, which could render a gas-plug infective if extended very far, I'd personally add a .078 on your gun if it were mine.

 

To do this, you start straight until you get a tiny bit of depth & then go to the same angle as your other 3.

If you take a spare bit, or use the .07 port gauge that you have, inserted with the handle in a port, it should give you an idea of the correct angle the added port needs to be at.

 

The air-file that I recommended over the phone should set you up just right if you use the round file that's included.

 

ETA, If you didn't have the vertical charging handle, I'd really be pushing for 3 @ .090 which would be made with a 2.3mm drill or mill bit for a gun that already had the friction reduction of GlassBolt.

I like to hit the op-rod as lightly as possible with the puck & still cycle well.

So don't worry if the 5/64ths bit won't fit into the 3 ports you already have.

Try it with the 1 added port & see how it goes.

It's always easier to add than subtract.

You want it ballanced as perfectly as possible.

Edited April 4, 2011 by PauIy

[Paulyski 2,227]

Something else to check out is resistance on your rails of your gun.

 

Take the carrier without the bolt in it & no recoil spring & see if there's any resistance on the rails at any perticular points.

 

I've found on many guns there will be some uneven points on the underside of the rails. Possibly due to distortion where the rails are spot-welded in.

 

If you find points of added friction, I would use some emery cloth by hand on the underside of your rails at these points to even them out.

 

It's kind-of an instant break-in for the rails.

 

Do keep me posted.

[surratt 3]

alright ill try get that gas block off today or 2moro and go ahead and drill a 5/64 hole in a diamond shape. Ill just leave the other holes alone for now though the 5/64 bit may already fit in them bc the .07 gauge fits in with a tiny bit of play.

[Cryobot 0]

After polishing my bolt I was still not able to fire magnum loads or bird shot, so I searched online and found a video on how to drill the ports easily, less then an hour, without removing the entire gas block. Search for iraqveteran8888. The job went quick and I'm now able to shoot magnum and bird shot.

Setting 2:Remington 8 shot

 

Setting 1: Keep on #2 setting exept for 3" magnum loads

 

3 ports at 3/32":

 

Access to ports: Belt sand off front site and punch out

 

3/32 cobalt drill bit to open all three ports (measure drill depth first to prevent barrel damage)

 

Use Cutting oil, slow speed, Blow out chips

 

Tap site hole with 10-32 tap and screw, use cutting oil, 1/4 turn, back out, 1/4 turn, back out, clean chips

 

Drill and tap new gun site on serrated part with 7/64 drill and 6-48 tap, cutting fluid

 

Clean up gas port cap threads

 

Touch up paint

 

Clean paint from 10-32 and 6-48 threaded holes

 

Install 10-32 flush plug with red loctite

 

Install 6-48 front site, red loctite

 

 

[Spartacus 1,619]

Cryobot..... no question that method works to get the gun cycling, but it's not the right way to drill the ports. When you re-drill an angled hole to be straight, you've now made the resulting hole much bigger than intended. Also, the straight holes will tend to let more carbon/wadding and gunk into the gas block.

 

Not a major problem, just be sure to use a Gunfixer or V Plug to limit gas flow on high brass and be ready to spend time cleaning after shooting.

 

The guy in those videos is very talented, not sure why he took such a shortcut on the port job.

[Paulyski 2,227]

+1 Spartacus.

 

Neglecting to keep the correct angle will result in a lot more contamination & "knifing off" wadding each shot like a cheese grater.

Bad idea.

 

If people must address ports, they should do it right & keep their angles correct.