cscharlie 107 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 Was wondering what kind of groups you guys are getting with the .308 Saiga without using handloads, or match ammo? How does it compare to a Fal??? Sheik? Anybody? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 I don't have a Saiga in 308Win, but I do have one in 30 Combloc and one in 223 Rem. I have an extensive FAL collection. Here is how I would rate them based on what I know: Accuracy - probably a wash. The manufacturing tolerances are tighter on a FAL, but the lockup on the AK is at the front of the bolt. I have heard of 1.5 inch Saigas and I own a 1.5 inch FAL (20 rounds in 2.2 inches). Most of my FALs are 2.5 - 3 inch guns and I would suspect that the average Saiga in 308 is around 2-2.5 inches. Durability - also probably a wash. What I have read about the 7.62x39 sheet metal AK is that it has a MTBF or 40K rounds, which is about the same for a FAL. Reliability - Hey, the Saiga is an AK! The FAL is a reliable gun, but it's not an AK. Weight - Here the AK really shines. With synthetic stocks, the Saiga has to be at least 2 lbs lighter, if not more. Ergonomics - while this is somewhat subjective, I have to give the edge to the FAL. Out of all the guns I own, the FAL is the most comfortable. It would still be even if you converted the Saiga to pistol grip configuration. Maintenance - again the edge goes to the FAL. The hinged two-part receiver facilitates cleaning and rapid field stripping. Price - For a base rifle, the Saiga wins hands down. That is, until you want to stock up on magazines. FAL mags are cheap and plentiful in 5, 10, 20, and 30 round sizes. Saiga mags are neither. Quality - For the money, the Saiga cannot be beat. But in general, if you stay away from Hesse and Century FALs, you have a great quality gun, especially if it is built on an Imbel or DSA receiver. I have FALs that are built on just about every receiver that has ever been made for it (even a Hesse) and I cannot fault the quality on any of them. Of course, all but one, I built myself. Accessories - Right now, the FAL has the 308 Saiga beat, but I do not anticipate this state to remain for long. Regular AKs have as many and varied accessories as FALs and it won't be long until the big brother catches up. Political Correctness - the Saiga standard rifle has no pistol grip. 'Nuff said. My advice: If you are on a budget, get the Saiga and start saving up for a FAL. If money is not an issue, get both. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 23, 2004 Report Share Posted February 23, 2004 You seem to be the man to ask... 1. what is the best FAL for the money? 2. is it best to get metric or inch patern? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 I am a big believer in standards and standard components, and when you see that 90% of all FALs made were metric, I tend to lean toward metric FALs. Metric mags will fit in inch FALs, but inch mags will not fit in metric FALs. That's a deciding point for some people. I can live without an inch FAL. If they are still available, the all-Imbel FALs from Dan's Ammo are a really good deal. Last time I checked, they were around $400 and used surplus parts that gaged new. A good investment that will hold it's value over the long term is any DSA rifle, but the lower-end models are the real value. The quality that comes out of DSA is second to no firearms manufacturer anywhere, and their customer service is right up there. DSA's receivers are made on the actual machinery that Steyr used to make teh Austrian StG-58, considered by many to be the finest example of the FAL. If you are not opposed to shopping around, some excellent deals can be had on the used market. Just have you money ready so that you can jump on it when you come across it. FALs have a pretty big cult following and good deals don't last long. Example: I found a pre-ban Springfield Armory for sale in a neighboring state for about half the going price. 60 seconds after I initiated the transaction, 7 guys were lined up to see if the deal would close, and it almost turned into a bidding war. Fortunately it didn't. But to get good deals, you have to be educated, or some unscrupulous individual will take advantage of you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 24, 2004 Report Share Posted February 24, 2004 Thanks, I'll keep looking (and learning). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Onepoint 0 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Krebs sells a AR A2 style sight for the reciever cover. I have put a 10 dollar generic peep from e-gunparts.com on a AK receiver cover experimenting and had no problems maintaining zero with it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sheik Yerbouti 0 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 cscharlie, The only problem I have with the CETME/HK platform is that they recoil more than they have to. This is due to the recoil-operated delayed roller locking block system that they use. I am not particularly recoil sensistive, but I can shoot far more rounds in my FAL before I get tired than I can with a G3. Yes, hi-caps are expensive. If the AWB sunsets on schedule, this may change. The peep sight idea sounds like a pretty good opportunity. With the Saiga, it could be anchored on the scope rail or to the receiver, like a Lyman peep sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Actually, for once I have to disagree with the Sheik. I have an HK91 Clone (G3) and I'm always amazed at how little recoil it has. It has the same recoil as any AK47 that I've shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hartzpad 0 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Actually, for once I have to disagree with the Sheik. I have an HK91 Clone (G3) and I'm always amazed at how little recoil it has. It has the same recoil as any AK47 that I've shot. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
KySoldier 2 Posted February 25, 2004 Report Share Posted February 25, 2004 Both of mine (AK and CETME) have muzzle breaks on them, makes a difference. But I've never shot an FAL so I can't compare. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
24kshooter 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 FAL's cost more and you can get real 20 round mags for them at $10 or less. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Oswald2001 0 Posted October 31, 2006 Report Share Posted October 31, 2006 Mag prices and availability are always a concern for me. I have a Galil .308 for which I paid $750 years ago. I have spent more than that on extra mags. The good thing about an FAL is that mags are reliable, proven, available and cheap. This is no small thing. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
BlenderWizard 12 Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Mag prices and availability are always a concern for me. I have a Galil .308 for which I paid $750 years ago. I have spent more than that on extra mags. The good thing about an FAL is that mags are reliable, proven, available and cheap. This is no small thing. and exactly why I no longer own my S-.308 Are there any FAL's available for under $500? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Grim42 0 Posted November 4, 2006 Report Share Posted November 4, 2006 Mag prices and availability are always a concern for me. I have a Galil .308 for which I paid $750 years ago. I have spent more than that on extra mags. The good thing about an FAL is that mags are reliable, proven, available and cheap. This is no small thing. and exactly why I no longer own my S-.308 Are there any FAL's available for under $500? You'd be lucky to find one under $750 that's reliable. If you think you're up to it, you can build one yourself for around that much if you can find a reciever. Grim Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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