Bchance 0 Posted February 11, 2012 Report Share Posted February 11, 2012 It looks good bud! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 12, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 12, 2012 (edited) Just in case: VOMZ 30 mm AK side mount (also purchased from Primary Arms, but also available at Kalinka Optics) needs to have its inner rings beveled to accommodate this sight's "bulge". Because my ACE folding mechanism's hinge is on a way as set up to fold the stock to the left, I've chosen to file out its hard stop (located on its right side, towards the stock), and be able to insert it from the barrel-side of the mount, not from the stock side forward. No big deal. If you don't fold to the left or have internal folding mechanism, you'll be OK. Edited February 13, 2012 by Sgt. Raven 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gunfun 3,931 Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Huh. My Disappointing Guntec USA mount just clears the hinge. Isn't the hard stop pretty significant to holding zero retention? A friend sheared the hard stop roll-pin on mine with his eyesocket. I replaced with an aluminum plate and several machine screws. I didn't really think about putting it on the other end. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 13, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Good point. I gave mount few "test blows" with rubber mallet (before putting the optics on, of course, lol) from the back, simulating and exaggerating the hardest case of recoil, but haven't seen any movement. It's not a Mosin or SVD with 7.62x54R, even less .50-cal Barrett, where I'd replace the mount with Picatinny. I will be keeping my eye on, testing it with 100 or more of M855 5.56, and post update later. There is always an option of adding the pin. Thanks! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DFM56 1 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) Can you remove that piece with the holes in it to lower the scope? How centered is it? Any complaints with the optic/rifle overall? Looks like you have to extend the stock pretty far, or is that how you normally run it anyway without optics? It looks like the mount could benefit from something thats a bit shorter than the primary arms optic, but it's hard to tell without handling the rifle. I'm also not sure what you can even fit in there since it seems like the clearance between the rings is an issue. Also, if you wouldn't mind, could you get the following dimensions for the mount/rifle? -front of front ring to back of the back ring -distance between rings (EDIT: PA website says 35mm) -total length of stock/adapter block in the position pictured Edited February 14, 2012 by DFM56 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) 1) Yes, you can remove the ring set, but you have to cut the notch and drill the holes at new, lower location. Possible? Yes. Worth it? Up to you. 2) Scope sits slightly off-center to the left of FSB. See picture of crosshair with front sight visible on previous page. That's how much it's off. Doesn't bother me at all. 3) Sight appears to be very durable. Lenses are clear and reticle is very sharp. Red dot is clear and well defined, unlike some cheepo scopes'; nice positive "clicks" upon W/E adjustment. Pop-up covers are spring-loaded; not the "battle grade", but far from junk. I'll keep them. There are detailed and positive reviews floating on YouTube; search under "Primary Arms". -front of front ring to back of the back ring - 65 mm/ 2.56" -distance between rings (EDIT: PA website says 35mm) - it is 35 mm/ 1.38" -total length of stock/adapter block in the position pictured Edge of the scope to end of the buttstock: - 9" (228 mm/22.8 cm) at the 2nd notch on tube; Alternative length: 9 3/4" (248mm/ 24.8 cm) at the 3dr notch; This is standard Magpul MOE on 6-way commercial tube, plus thickness of ACE folding mechanism. I was using stock at its 2nd notch with irons, but bouncing back and forth between 2nd and 3rd with this scope. Either way it feels "right" and eye relief is good for either one. I think I'll end up leaving it at the 3rd notch. Hope that helps. Edited February 14, 2012 by Sgt. Raven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DFM56 1 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 Thanks for the info! Just to be clear, I was referring to the section highlighted in green in this picture; It looks like the mount pictured on the PA site already has this removed. Good news on the stock length, though. I run a nato length K-var stock right now (10.75" iirc) and the lop is comfortable for me. For some reason the stock looked very long in your pictures, must be the buffer tube playing tricks on me. Also, based on 9000 hours in MS paint, it looks like you can fit the optic farther forward in the mount if for some reason you needed to. Might be something to play around with. How is the section with the scope rings attached to the rest of the mount? If it's screwed on I can probably machine a spacer to center it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 14, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I need to get back to you on the length of "green" section.Check Kalinka for better view: Here is an inner view of one with 1" rings, but it's same type of ring hardware: I'm sure you can fabricate entire rings section (btw, held to the mount by slotted screws, visible from outside, including one each for E&W alignment) to suit your scope positioning needs.Good luck and make sure you post it. Edited January 21, 2013 by Makc Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DFM56 1 Posted February 14, 2012 Report Share Posted February 14, 2012 I don't need the length of the green section, I was just wondering if you can take it out and if the mount will work without it. It looks like a spacer, but I've been wrong about things like that before. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Man, you don't give up...good! Made me think about. The "green section" appears to be a spacer, you're correct. I have no interest of removing it (yet!), but see that it shouldn't be a problem. There are 2 guide pins and 3 screws, one of which is adjustable for precision alignment ("fixed" screws are flush with the surface; adjustable are sticking out). My hands are starting to itch for some alterations... Edited February 15, 2012 by Sgt. Raven 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bchance 0 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 I like your conversion a lot, it looks awesome. Do you really like the folding stock or if you were to start over, would you have just bought the stationary mount? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) Absolutely! I really like "folder" for two reasons: 1. (The major one is) paying respect to my Paratrooper's heritage and traditions, and following the "tried and trusted" platform (that's why it will never be folding to the right; only to the left). 2. Convenience of discrete and compact transportation and storage, and being able to shoot and control the gun while folded (during the SHTF situation). But then, it takes a second to unfold. I learned quite some after my first conversion (5.45 mm Saiga), and tried to avoid the mistakes of the past (thankfully, nothing major). My first Tapco $30 folder was ...OK (for short range and "mall ninja" style "missions") but it's a joke as compared to ACE/Magpul combo I have now. Russian "triangle" steel folder was robust and durable, but hardly comparable to flexibility of current "collapse/fold" setup. Would I take it into the "hot zone" the way it's set up right now? No doubt. What would I add/change: HK-style iron sights instead of OEM AK sights. What's next: muzzle break (still deciding on, and leaning towards the proven AK-74 style) and sling (Condor Speedy is on order). Edited February 15, 2012 by Sgt. Raven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bchance 0 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 What exactly would I need to purchase to install the same stock (folding) that you have installed on yours? I don't mean to "steal" your design, but it does look like it functions great and right now I have the T6 Tapco stock installed and I'm not liking it very much. It just feels incredibly cheap to me. BTW this is my first conversion and I've already learned a lot from it and of course already addicted! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DFM56 1 Posted February 15, 2012 Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 Man, you don't give up...good! Made me think about. The "green section" appears to be a spacer, you're correct. I have no interest of removing it (yet!), but see that it shouldn't be a problem. There are 2 guide pins and 3 screws, one of which is adjustable for precision alignment ("fixed" screws are flush with the surface; adjustable are sticking out). My hands are starting to itch for some alterations... Thanks again! Someone has one up for sale on ar15.com and they removed the spacer. I might have to pick it up if some paypal money clears before it sells. I think I'm sold on this mount over the TWS cover. Also, since you're looking for a brake, Spike's Tactical is making their dynacomp in 14mm soon. The reviews for the AR15 unit have been pretty positive from what I've seen and the price is reasonable so I've been waiting on those. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 15, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) No such thing as "stealing" (and so-called "my design"): community-based open-book info. You can get all the parts from CSS or source them separately. Core components will be as following (I hope not to miss anything; therefore, I invite anyone to pitch in and correct me, or suggest alternatives): 1) Receiver adapter (you will need to cut the tang off). I've got mine from MSA, but there are compatible designs available through CSS and others. MSA P/N: I.S.A. Saiga 2) M4 STOCK FOLDING MECHANISM SAIGA- AK47 AR STYLE CSS P/N: ACE-FSM-AR 3) Magpul Industries MOE Carbine Stock Stock Black Non Mil-Spec AR-15 MAG401-BLK "Commercial Size" or another collapsible stock of your choice. CSS or anyone else 4) Buffer tube of matching to the stock type ("commercial" or "military") CSS or anyone else. 5) M4 CAR BUFFER TUBE LOCK RING CASTLE NUT CSS P/N: CAR-NUT 6) 10-32 x 5/16 Button Head Socket Cap Screws (4), like McMaster-Carr P/N 91255A262. 10-32 x 1/4" might work, as long as all threads are in the body of your specific adapter. 7) Locktite or threadlocker: red for receiver adapter and blue for stock adapter (my preferences), or all blue (minimum). Hope that helps. Have fun and post an update on progress. Edited February 16, 2012 by Sgt. Raven 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bchance 0 Posted February 16, 2012 Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 Thanks for the list! I doubt I speak for my self when I say I appreciate all of the input you have provided. It is GREATLY appreciated! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 16, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) Glad to be of help. Feel free to ask. The truth is, that we live in very unique country, where each and every such project contributes to the National Security; just the way our Founding Fathers intended it to be. If only the rest of this restless world could realize how much firepower is in the hands of the ordinary American People... "You cannot invade the mainland United States. There would be a rifle behind every blade of grass." (Isoroku Yamamoto) Plenty of grass here for every AR, AK, M1, FN, HK, SKS, etc: you name it. Edited February 17, 2012 by Sgt. Raven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 17, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2012 (edited) P.S. Full list of parts and sources is available, if anyone is interested. P.P.S. After extended consideration, I decided to thread the barrel with 1/2" x 28 TPI and put DPMS Miculek AR15 muzzle brake on. Update upon installation. Edited February 19, 2012 by Sgt. Raven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yesterday I removed barrel shroud for oncoming threading for AR muzzle hardware. Awaiting arrival of 1/2 x 28 TAT from CSS and DPMS Miculek AR compensator, having die and handle on hand already. Will be threading upon arrival. Wish me luck! P.S. At some point I need to call this project finished. I think I am addicted: I'm starting to have a visions on the next one... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted February 20, 2012 Report Share Posted February 20, 2012 Yesterday I removed barrel shroud for oncoming threading for AR muzzle hardware. Awaiting arrival of 1/2 x 28 TAT from CSS and DPMS Miculek AR compensator, having die and handle on hand already. Will be threading upon arrival. Wish me luck! P.S. At some point I need to call this project finished. I think I am addicted: I'm starting to have a visions on the next one... I find myself in the same boat. Working on Saiga rifles/shotguns is very addictive. There are so many ways you can build them that they are like baseball cards, and you just feel like you have to collect them all. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 22, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Got die and handle and Miculek compensator. It looks and feels great; very well made. Finished threading the barrel last night and hand-aligned compensator: feels good! No blood or tears, but plenty of sweat. Will set it all up tonight, threadlock and tighten it up, and, hopefully, test-fire tomorrow. Pictures incoming! P.S. Need a little more "tweaking" to position the top at 1 o'clock for use with left support arm. See Jerry's good point here (extract from his video):http://bcove.me/8sztgoc4 And comp itself: Edited February 24, 2012 by Sgt. Raven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 25, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 With compensator installed: Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Damn good looking rifle. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) P.S. Sling received (Condor 2-pt Speedy; will post picture later). Range time tonight! Update incoming. Edited February 28, 2012 by Sgt. Raven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 (edited) Went to the range and tested compensator/optics combo. Recoil and muzzle jump are more of the .22-cal grade. I shot a video (need to compress from Blu-Ray; will post soon) and was watching it in desbelief: muzzle stays on target like it locked in wise. I haven't noticed additional noise from compensator, and guys on both sides were shooting .357 slabnose and .308 Saiga. I am one happy camper! After setting it at 25 yards, I moved to 50 at put it onto "Dirty Bird" (below; elbow rest). Edited March 1, 2012 by Sgt. Raven 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
liberty -r- death 1,445 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Nice Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Unedited video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTKldS_etXw&feature=youtu.be 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
termpred 3 Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Did you have to turn your barrel down to thread it to 1/2x28? What was your barrel diameter to begin with? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted February 29, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Yes, I did (had to: it was ~.591"). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
SgtRaven 531 Posted March 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 (edited) (Double-posting removed). Edited March 1, 2012 by Sgt. Raven Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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