GS455 0 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 Greetings all. It's been a long time since I visited this forum. I bought a standard Saiga 12 back when the panic was on. At least I didn't pay the highest prices going but like many I just "had to have one" before they >>>shrug<<< became illegal to import. I started having a bit of work done on it. Rear stock removed, trigger moved up to mag well, double hook trigger installed, barrel shortened (to just short of SBR) and them just lost interest and boxed it up. I witnessed my buddy's proved far less than reliable on anything but certain high-brass ammo. I thought I saw on one of the Russian Tactical/promotional videos that these things were supposed to eat anything. My 870 does and I want that in a reliable home or other defense weapon. Anyway,I'd like to build some kind of actual version of a 12S EXP-01-030. I should say I'd like to have one built. Are the parts available, gas block+site+rail, fold up dust cover rail etc to actually build one of these? I know you can put a magwell on. If so who does it? Reasonable $$$. I've had my head in FALs and Mausers for the last year but I'd be interested in finishing this shotgun if I could really go "all the way" with it. And this may be an old topics rehashed to death. Definitely a newbie here and know little about these so I appreciate the patience of my ignorance. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 (edited) Greetings all. It's been a long time since I visited this forum. I bought a standard Saiga 12 back when the panic was on. At least I didn't pay the highest prices going but like many I just "had to have one" before they >>>shrug<<< became illegal to import. welcome back, its still legal so legal that they were going for $499 for a bit. just no scope rail now. its evil I started having a bit of work done on it. Rear stock removed, trigger moved up to mag well, double hook trigger installed, barrel shortened (to just short of SBR) I thought it was just short of SBS to begin with? and them just lost interest and boxed it up. I witnessed my buddy's proved far less than reliable on anything but certain high-brass ammo. I thought I saw on one of the Russian Tactical/promotional videos that these things were supposed to eat anything. My 870 does and I want that in a reliable home or other defense weapon. They eat anything! maybe read up on some reliability issues. Like: Will not eat 2 3/4 Remington 1390 FPS ammo FTE trouble with my Saiga 12 Gas Block Removal Tips? Modification to repair FTE issues on Saigas with blocked gas ports Anyway,I'd like to build some kind of actual version of a 12S EXP-01-030. I should say I'd like to have one built. Are the parts available, gas block+site+rail, fold up dust cover rail etc to actually build one of these? I know you can put a magwell on. If so who does it? Reasonable $$$. There are a couple thread around where people have made their own version or got it as close as possible. fitted a TWS Railed Top Cover on my S12 I've had my head in FALs and Mausers for the last year but I'd be interested in finishing this shotgun if I could really go "all the way" with it. And this may be an old topics rehashed to death. Definitely a newbie here and know little about these so I appreciate the patience of my ignorance. Starting from the rear of the S12: Buttpad from rusmilitary 100 series stock from kvar pistol grip from rusmili trigger guard from md arms or akbuilder tws dog leg scope rail gen 2 with chaos hk rear sight Dinzag rear sight block/gas tube mod russian magwell from rusmili piccatinny rail for gasblock from ebay or kvar 030 muzzle brake from any of the vendors Think that covers it all. How could I forget, tac 47 auto plug...duh Edited January 5, 2012 by AZG Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) The 030 was my inspiration for mine, this was the closest I was able to get, Gas block is obviously IZ109 and no hinged topcover, but I got what I was after. Thankfully most of the parts are much easier to come by these days, it took me all of 2008 to find them back in the day. Edited January 6, 2012 by TX-Zen 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 Greetings all. It's been a long time since I visited this forum. I bought a standard Saiga 12 back when the panic was on. At least I didn't pay the highest prices going but like many I just "had to have one" before they >>>shrug<<< became illegal to import. welcome back, its still legal so legal that they were going for $499 for a bit. just no scope rail now. its evil I started having a bit of work done on it. Rear stock removed, trigger moved up to mag well, double hook trigger installed, barrel shortened (to just short of SBR) I thought it was just short of SBS to begin with? and them just lost interest and boxed it up. I witnessed my buddy's proved far less than reliable on anything but certain high-brass ammo. I thought I saw on one of the Russian Tactical/promotional videos that these things were supposed to eat anything. My 870 does and I want that in a reliable home or other defense weapon. They eat anything! maybe read up on some reliability issues. Like: Will not eat 2 3/4 Remington 1390 FPS ammo FTE trouble with my Saiga 12 Gas Block Removal Tips? Modification to repair FTE issues on Saigas with blocked gas ports Anyway,I'd like to build some kind of actual version of a 12S EXP-01-030. I should say I'd like to have one built. Are the parts available, gas block+site+rail, fold up dust cover rail etc to actually build one of these? I know you can put a magwell on. If so who does it? Reasonable $$$. There are a couple thread around where people have made their own version or got it as close as possible. fitted a TWS Railed Top Cover on my S12 I've had my head in FALs and Mausers for the last year but I'd be interested in finishing this shotgun if I could really go "all the way" with it. And this may be an old topics rehashed to death. Definitely a newbie here and know little about these so I appreciate the patience of my ignorance. Starting from the rear of the S12: Buttpad from rusmilitary 100 series stock from kvar pistol grip from rusmili trigger guard from md arms or akbuilder tws dog leg scope rail gen 2 with chaos hk rear sight Dinzag rear sight block/gas tube mod russian magwell from rusmili piccatinny rail for gasblock from ebay or kvar 030 muzzle brake from any of the vendors Think that covers it all. How could I forget, tac 47 auto plug...duh He said SBR, not SBS, so he had two more inches to play with... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) Had to dig. Found this from other post on slide stock. Where can I get these parts. Rusmilitary? Edited January 6, 2012 by RamLake Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 6, 2012 Report Share Posted January 6, 2012 You can kinda create the exterior look of the 030 but you won't be able to change the gas system over to that of the 030. The FGB, op rod, piston/puck, etc, are completely different. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
The_Caged_Bird 474 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 Had to dig. Found this from other post on slide stock. Where can I get these parts. Rusmilitary? Saigatech makes his own parts... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelrat 10 Posted January 7, 2012 Report Share Posted January 7, 2012 The 030 was my inspiration for mine, this was the closest I was able to get, Gas block is obviously IZ109 and no hinged topcover, but I got what I was after. Thankfully most of the parts are much easier to come by these days, it took me all of 2008 to find them back in the day. Wow just checking out this thread, and now I just decided how I want to do mine...I really like the AK profile!...already contacted Brian at Dinzag. I am guessing that his system utilizes the factory gas puck and bolt carrier piston...didn't think to ask him about that. How does it shoot? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TX-Zen 287 Posted January 8, 2012 Report Share Posted January 8, 2012 My S12 runs like a scalded ass monkey, shoots literally anything I put down the pipe. It's a 4 port gun that's always been smooth after it broke in, I haven't had to polish or do anything to it. Dinzag's gas tube mod uses the factory gas system and puck yes. He does great work and I think his gas tube mod makes the look and brings out the inner AK of any S12. Z Quote Link to post Share on other sites
intercooler 0 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 what parts did you use spoecifically to do that ak front ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 15, 2012 Report Share Posted January 15, 2012 what parts did you use spoecifically to do that ak front ? Which one, the real 030 or the look-a-likes? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Cobra 76 two 2,677 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Look up POH Firearms.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelrat 10 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 what parts did you use spoecifically to do that ak front ? I ordered the AK gas tube kit from Brian at Dinzag Arms. If you remove your gas tube assembly and send it to him he will knock $50 off of his price. He has several pricing options that can include the front sight, muzzle brake, upper and lower handguards and their respective retainers. Look it up online and check it out. I removed my tube and sent it to him last week. I ordered the complete kit except for the muzzle brake, which I already have. He substituted a handguard for it. He is pretty cool to deal with. Just to clarify, the 030 platform is a newer platform that is different from the 109 platform that most of us are currently shooting. It incorporates a magwell, hinged railed top cover, last round bolt hold open and railed front sight gas block. For those of us that own the 109 configuration, creating a "look-a-like" 030 is the closest we'll get to it. Personally, I prefer the front sight being at the muzzle end, which is more true to the AK47 profile, than the front sight gas block of the 030...but that's just me. BTW, if you want a "real 030", move to Russia and get one there. If you are referring to the ones that Legion USA are selling...well, 922® took the "real" out of that equation. As far as I'm concerned, it's a "look-a-like", albeit a lot more so than the 109 platform. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 what parts did you use spoecifically to do that ak front ? I ordered the AK gas tube kit from Brian at Dinzag Arms. If you remove your gas tube assembly and send it to him he will knock $50 off of his price. He has several pricing options that can include the front sight, muzzle brake, upper and lower handguards and their respective retainers. Look it up online and check it out. I removed my tube and sent it to him last week. I ordered the complete kit except for the muzzle brake, which I already have. He substituted a handguard for it. He is pretty cool to deal with. Just to clarify, the 030 platform is a newer platform that is different from the 109 platform that most of us are currently shooting. It incorporates a magwell, hinged railed top cover, last round bolt hold open and railed front sight gas block. For those of us that own the 109 configuration, creating a "look-a-like" 030 is the closest we'll get to it. Personally, I prefer the front sight being at the muzzle end, which is more true to the AK47 profile, than the front sight gas block of the 030...but that's just me. BTW, if you want a "real 030", move to Russia and get one there. If you are referring to the ones that Legion USA are selling...well, 922® took the "real" out of that equation. As far as I'm concerned, it's a "look-a-like", albeit a lot more so than the 109 platform. What you will be building is closer to the 040 that Legion is now selling. The 030 uses an entirely different gas system. Have fun with your build. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelrat 10 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 What you will be building is closer to the 040 that Legion is now selling. The 030 uses an entirely different gas system. Have fun with your build. You're right...sorry for the oversight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Hey, no worries. Have fun. Please post up some photos when you git 'er dun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
tunnelrat 10 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Will do! Waiting on the parts now...funny thing is, I never fired it...I started all of this right out of the box, brand new. I currently have everything stripped from the lower receiver. I plan on making sure every sharp edge on every part is smooth and polished where necessary before putting it back together. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 what parts did you use spoecifically to do that ak front ? I ordered the AK gas tube kit from Brian at Dinzag Arms. If you remove your gas tube assembly and send it to him he will knock $50 off of his price. He has several pricing options that can include the front sight, muzzle brake, upper and lower handguards and their respective retainers. Look it up online and check it out. I removed my tube and sent it to him last week. I ordered the complete kit except for the muzzle brake, which I already have. He substituted a handguard for it. He is pretty cool to deal with. Just to clarify, the 030 platform is a newer platform that is different from the 109 platform that most of us are currently shooting. It incorporates a magwell, hinged railed top cover, last round bolt hold open and railed front sight gas block. For those of us that own the 109 configuration, creating a "look-a-like" 030 is the closest we'll get to it. Personally, I prefer the front sight being at the muzzle end, which is more true to the AK47 profile, than the front sight gas block of the 030...but that's just me. BTW, if you want a "real 030", move to Russia and get one there. If you are referring to the ones that Legion USA are selling...well, 922® took the "real" out of that equation. As far as I'm concerned, it's a "look-a-like", albeit a lot more so than the 109 platform. dinzags system does not allow furniture to be removed without tools, like the 030, but still is a cool system. Acually think of it this way.....it is a real 030 that has been sporterized. With the proper truniun and trigger gaurd or at least made to the same specs (usa made) it becomes for all practicle purposes an 030. Kinda of like saying an AK built in bulgaria is not an AK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 what parts did you use spoecifically to do that ak front ? I ordered the AK gas tube kit from Brian at Dinzag Arms. If you remove your gas tube assembly and send it to him he will knock $50 off of his price. He has several pricing options that can include the front sight, muzzle brake, upper and lower handguards and their respective retainers. Look it up online and check it out. I removed my tube and sent it to him last week. I ordered the complete kit except for the muzzle brake, which I already have. He substituted a handguard for it. He is pretty cool to deal with. Just to clarify, the 030 platform is a newer platform that is different from the 109 platform that most of us are currently shooting. It incorporates a magwell, hinged railed top cover, last round bolt hold open and railed front sight gas block. For those of us that own the 109 configuration, creating a "look-a-like" 030 is the closest we'll get to it. Personally, I prefer the front sight being at the muzzle end, which is more true to the AK47 profile, than the front sight gas block of the 030...but that's just me. BTW, if you want a "real 030", move to Russia and get one there. If you are referring to the ones that Legion USA are selling...well, 922® took the "real" out of that equation. As far as I'm concerned, it's a "look-a-like", albeit a lot more so than the 109 platform. dinzags system does not allow furniture to be removed without tools, like the 030, but still is a cool system. Acually think of it this way.....it is a real 030 that has been sporterized. With the proper truniun and trigger gaurd or at least made to the same specs (usa made) it becomes for all practicle purposes an 030. Kinda of like saying an AK built in bulgaria is not an AK It's gonna take a lot of skill and hard work (if it is even possible) to make a 109 into an 030. Again, the gas systems are completely different. 030 photos below... At best you will get close to the 040. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
beefcakeb99 572 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Sunny, with all due respect...bullshit. I good machinist/gunsmith could one off the gas system I would bet. Mill, cnc, and a hard worker could replicate that piston and it looks like the "puck" is more of a sleeve. I am none of the above, but if one man can design it, another could redesign it...JMHO Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Sunny, with all due respect...bullshit. I good machinist/gunsmith could one off the gas system I would bet. Mill, cnc, and a hard worker could replicate that piston and it looks like the "puck" is more of a sleeve. I am none of the above, but if one man can design it, another could redesign it...JMHO No skin off my ass. Like I said a lot of skill and work. I also not sure if you could use the two, three, or four ports from a 109 on a 030 gas block. I've never seen or heard how many and what size the 030 ports are. Also, not sure if they are in. The exact location (lengthwise) as an 109. I was just trying to clarify that the 030 utilizes a different system. Cheers! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 what parts did you use spoecifically to do that ak front ? I ordered the AK gas tube kit from Brian at Dinzag Arms. If you remove your gas tube assembly and send it to him he will knock $50 off of his price. He has several pricing options that can include the front sight, muzzle brake, upper and lower handguards and their respective retainers. Look it up online and check it out. I removed my tube and sent it to him last week. I ordered the complete kit except for the muzzle brake, which I already have. He substituted a handguard for it. He is pretty cool to deal with. Just to clarify, the 030 platform is a newer platform that is different from the 109 platform that most of us are currently shooting. It incorporates a magwell, hinged railed top cover, last round bolt hold open and railed front sight gas block. For those of us that own the 109 configuration, creating a "look-a-like" 030 is the closest we'll get to it. Personally, I prefer the front sight being at the muzzle end, which is more true to the AK47 profile, than the front sight gas block of the 030...but that's just me. BTW, if you want a "real 030", move to Russia and get one there. If you are referring to the ones that Legion USA are selling...well, 922® took the "real" out of that equation. As far as I'm concerned, it's a "look-a-like", albeit a lot more so than the 109 platform. dinzags system does not allow furniture to be removed without tools, like the 030, but still is a cool system. Acually think of it this way.....it is a real 030 that has been sporterized. With the proper truniun and trigger gaurd or at least made to the same specs (usa made) it becomes for all practicle purposes an 030. Kinda of like saying an AK built in bulgaria is not an AK It's gonna take a lot of skill and hard work (if it is even possible) to make a 109 into an 030. Again, the gas systems are completely different. 030 photos below... At best you will get close to the 040. Ramlake is talking about a legion imported 030 sporter. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ramlake 98 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Sunny, with all due respect...bullshit. I good machinist/gunsmith could one off the gas system I would bet. Mill, cnc, and a hard worker could replicate that piston and it looks like the "puck" is more of a sleeve. I am none of the above, but if one man can design it, another could redesign it...JMHO An even harder asspect is the factory LBHO release button thru the center truniun block. Gas block has been available, Op rod no problem, tappet no problem, rear sight block with real removable AK furniture, very few I've seen do it. Hinged 030 style top cover with rail even fewer I've seen. I have done a lot of research and have found very few gunsmiths / machinist that have even attemped to custom fabricate some of these parts. I do agree the parts can be reverse enginnered but at what cost? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
sunnybean 939 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 Ramlake is talking about a legion imported 030 sporter. Right, and that's the confusion. At best you can make a 040 type gun. The 030 will take a fuck ton of work to duplicate it's gas system is completely different. Look at Legions website. The only "030 type" guns they offer are the IZ-433 and IZ-433A. Even those are not the "precious" 030. There are only 200 030s coming in. They look similar to the IZ-4433 and IZ-43A but have a picatinny rail under the FGB. The 040 type guns are the best you are gonna duplicate out of a 109. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
gregomega 929 Posted January 16, 2012 Report Share Posted January 16, 2012 If the gas system was that easy to replicate here in the us, I think it would have been done by now and we wouldn't be having this conversation and instead shooting our ver. 30's. If I was them, those with the tools to do it, Id fly my ass to russia and get one, bring it back, replicate and market the ru copied system and and start my early retirement. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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