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Saiga 308 Safety Lever


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#1 HOG76

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 09:08 PM

Does the Saiga 308 use a standard safety lever? Here is what happened, my trigger looked like this, it is a Tapco G2 trigger.

Attached File  g2tg.jpg   25.59KB   18 downloads


As you can see there is a raised portion on the one side, which as I now know is for the safety. I ground it off as I thought it might be causing my trigger spring to fall off the leg.

I want to put in an Arsenal 2 stage trigger anyways, so will a standard AK74 safety work? the current safety will only work if there is that raised portion.

Where would you find a G2 with that raised trigger leg? The safety lever is kind of worthless without this type of trigger, any thoughts on what to do with this safety?

#2 AZG

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:29 PM

So you want a trigger leg like on the g2? I know dinzag(Brian) welded the current safty tab on there. Maybe he could do thesame qiththe arsenal? Not sure if that's what you're after.

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#3 VR6Shooter

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Posted 22 March 2012 - 11:56 PM

Standard Saiga 308 safety is not long enough. Requires either adding metal to the standard safety, adding bumps to the trigger where it meets the safety, or buying a brand new safety. I purchased a NOS Chinese safety, colored it to match and installed. Now it feels and acts like a standard AK safety. Choose whichever you feel most comfortable or whichever suits your budget. Just make sure its safe, wouldnt want any issues with discharges because of the safety issue.
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#4 HOG76

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 11:16 AM

Thanks guys, that is kind of what I thought, just wanted confirmation.

#5 -Indy-

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 08:24 AM

I wanted to add a little something here... because I had a VERY BAD thing happen to me the other night...

I was using a DInzag FCG, which was a VERY PRECISE FIT under the factory safety lever!!!

I loaded 5 rounds.... fired three into the target, and went to put the safety on, to check the group with a spotting scope... I had two rounds left in the firearm. the firearm was in a cocked and ready position... and in that position, the trigger on MY particular 308 can be pulled just a tiny bit and will not reset back to "zero position" so to speak.... This is what happened...

With that said...

The right, rear leg of the trigger is a perfect rectangular shape, there is no added material that I can see, or a bevel, or anything like that... and makes a perfect fit under the safety tab when the safety is moved to the SAFE position... There is ZERO trigger play while the rifle is on SAFE...

HOWEVER...

And here is where there is a BIG ISSUE...

Because The trigger was pulled JUST SLIGHTLY... and stayed in that position... As I went to engage the safety... it PUSHED AGAINST THE REAR OF THE TRIGGER LEG CAUSING THE RIFLE TO DISCHARGE!!!

I am talking about a thickness of about a HALF A MILLIMETER!!!!! a VERY TINY amount of contact was all it took... the safety felt "hard" so I got on it... its an AK after all... and that's when I got the "BOOM"!!!

I had to have a hole patched in the ceiling of my back porch where the bullet went up through the wall and exited the roof over the soffit... Thankfully the ONLY injury was to my thumb when the charging handle came back, and to my pride for having a negligent discharge!!!!!!

I had to radius the REAR of the trigger leg, as well as the leading edge of the safety tab, and polish both surfaces!!!

Please double-check your safeties, and make sure that your firearms cannot do this!!!!



Anyone with any questions on this... PLEASE PM me or call me.... I would hate to see someone killed because the safety wasn't QUITE perfect!!!!

Just a HEADS UP AND AN FYI!!!!

PLEASE note... I am NOT trying to bash or decry Dinzag's work... as he makes some of the finest handmade saiga parts you can get!!! I JUST want people to know that BECAUSE they are made with TIGHT TOLERANCES ... there MIGHT be an issue in an ODD, and unforseen turn of events!!!!


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#6 VR6Shooter

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 10:00 AM

Did you take some pictures of it before you did the polish Indy? May be easier for some to understand with a image. Maybe if you didn't, someone else with a Dinzag could post up what it looks like for any interested. Sorry you had that happen, don't get too hard on yourself, though. On-safe discharges are one I don't think anyone ever expects Posted Image

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#7 -Indy-

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 12:19 PM

True that... almost like the SPANISH INQUISITION!!!! Cause NO ONE ever EXPECTS the Spanish inquisition!!!! Posted Image

Seriously, though... I am working to get my certification as a hunter safety instructor for the state of NY... I pride myself on safe and responsible firearms practices... and WHAMMO!!! one "aw fuck!! :( " blows all the "atta-boys" right out the door...

No, I didnt take any pictures... but the parts looked exactly like they were factory. Crisp clean SQUARED OFF edges on both parts where they meet up... that in itself I think was the issue... TOO TIGHT of tolerances!! not enough SLOP! go figure!! It needed a teeny bit of slop so that it can pass by even if the trigger leg is raised up just a TINY bit!! Not that it EVER should on its own... but OBVIOUSLY if it happened to me it COULD potentially happen to someone else... and thats the WHOLE POINT of this post... to educate ANYONE with a Saiga to VERIFY and check their units to make sure this cant happen to THEM!!! Posted Image


Posted Image
"Laws that forbid the carrying of arms...disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes...Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man."
~ Thomas Jefferson


It is impossible to make people understand their ignorance; for it requires knowledge to perceive it and therefore he that can perceive it, hath it not.
Jeremy Taylor
English prelate (1613 - 1667)


"The AG has determined that you're a potential terrorist, because only potential terrorists are interested in buying guns."

#8 MeatAxe556

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 05:12 AM

I tried a Krebs Custom safety ("Mark VI for Saiga Rifles") today that I ordered from CSS.

 

It works..."in a way": although the safety engages to stop the trigger from releasing the hammer, this safety is so incredibly loose and wiggly that it's totally unsafe. There is no tension on the safety lever at all -- the safety lever flops up and down of it's own accord. The dust cover is the only thing that keeps the safety from failing when the trigger is pulled. Otherwise, if you pull the trigger in the "safe" position with the dust cover off, the trigger will let the hammer drop and the safety lever will spin backwards like a windmill!

 

I put a mic to this Krebs POS and found that it was totally out of spec compared to the stock Saiga and a Vepr safeties. The journals "fitting" into the holes in the receiver were anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 mm too small and the notch in the lever that would hold it to the right side of the receiver is probably 1/4 mm too wide -- so the whole thing flops around like spaghetti.

 

I don't know if somebody in QC at Krebs just totally dropped the ball on this one lever or if they're all like this, but this is totally unacceptable for a $60 "custom" part.

 

I did manage to find an old stock Vepr 7.62x39 safety lever lying around that works, although it's pretty stiff and puts another arcing scratch on the receiver because the dimple's in the wrong place, but at least it stops the hammer from dropping in the safe mode.

 

Aggravating!


Edited by MeatAxe556, 02 February 2015 - 07:41 AM.


#9 Mullet Man

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Posted 01 February 2015 - 11:06 PM

Does it have shaft play in the receiver hole, or is it just loose in the up/down swing? 


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#10 MeatAxe556

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Posted 02 February 2015 - 01:17 AM

Does it have shaft play in the receiver hole, or is it just loose in the up/down swing? 

 

 

All of the above.

 

ETA: I tried this new (Saiga) Krebs safety in a Vepr and it had pretty much the same effect, maybe not quite as sloppy but still not safe. I then tried it on an old MAK90 and it was just as sloppy as on the Saiga .308.

 

I then tried both the MAK90 and the Krebs safety that came out of the Vepr in the Saiga .308 and they both worked fine aside from the dimple being in the wrong place...which leads me to believe that this new Krebs safety is just horribly out of spec.

 

Somebody in QC obviously dropped the ball on this...anyone else have any issues with Krebs' QC lately?


Edited by MeatAxe556, 03 February 2015 - 04:55 AM.


#11 Mullet Man

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 09:57 PM

Can you Mic the pivot shaft? I have 5 Krebs safetys and none of them are loose between Veprs, Saigas, a Yugo and a Bulgarian SLR.
You do realize QC doesn't always catch everything. Have you contacted Krebs?

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#12 MeatAxe556

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Posted 03 February 2015 - 11:53 PM

Can you Mic the pivot shaft? I have 5 Krebs safetys and none of them are loose between Veprs, Saigas, a Yugo and a Bulgarian SLR.
You do realize QC doesn't always catch everything. Have you contacted Krebs?

 

Oh, I'm well aware that QC doesn't catch everything, because I'm the one that catches it. I'm a former (unwitting) beta tester for SIG USA, not that I buy any of their crap anymore. Which is why I don't have much tolerance for QC issues when I end up wasting time, money and effort sorting them out. QC issues can usually be headed off if someone bothers to take 30 seconds to function test a product before they kick it out the factory door, especially if it's supposed to be a "custom" part that you pay a premium for.

 

The pivot shaft averages @ 4.71mm (it's eccentric). The other ones (that worked) were @ 4.95mm and more uniformly round. Also, on the other end of the shaft, there's a stepped up round portion (that rests against the outside of the right side of the receiver when installed) that looks like it's protruding another 1/4mm (further diminishing any possibility of tension between the receiver and the lever) which is not present on the levers that work.

 

Bottom line is that this POS doesn't fit right in 3 rifles that I've tried and would be dangerous if used (if you were carrying the weapon -- say loaded with a round in the chamber -- and took a couple of steps with the safety engaged, the lever will fall into the fire position by itself).

 

I've contacted both CSS and Krebs within the last 3 days but neither have responded. You would think that Krebs would want to take care of this immediately because it's (literally) a safety issue.


Edited by MeatAxe556, 04 February 2015 - 06:12 PM.


#13 Mullet Man

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Posted 04 February 2015 - 11:08 PM

Call Krebs. I've found they are easier to get a hold of on the phone. Greg (CSS) must be busy, it took him a couple days to reply to an email I sent him just over a week ago.

Either way, Shit does happen, yes it's unfortunate but it's not the end of the world and both of those companies are reputable.
Take some meds and try again.

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#14 MeatAxe556

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Posted 05 February 2015 - 12:06 AM

Call Krebs. I've found they are easier to get a hold of on the phone. Greg (CSS) must be busy, it took him a couple days to reply to an email I sent him just over a week ago.

Either way, Shit does happen, yes it's unfortunate but it's not the end of the world and both of those companies are reputable.
Take some meds and try again.

 

 

Oh sure, reputable companies (should) want to know when they make mistakes so they can correct them.

 

Somebody up there needs to get their ass chewed out. May sound like a little thing, but I ordered a Krebs retainer plate for a Saiga 12 just  before this safety issue and I got a regular plate that had been mis-packaged. Sure, i could grind it down myself, but that's a PITA and really not something I want to do for safety reasons, as a pin popping out of alignment at the wrong moment can either tie up the weapon or make it go uncontrolled full-auto -- not something you want to happen.

 

I ate that part and ordered another plate from a different source, which came through, but it cost me another weeks' time (and aggravation) to do that conversion because somebody wasn't paying attention when they dropped the part into its zip lock bag, or when they sent the part to me.

 

Details: they matter and good companies sweat details, especially if it's a safety issue.

 

Hopefully, before long Izhmash will be building their own guns in the US so we won't have to keep jumping through silly 922r compliance hoops to get more quality .308 AKs and shotguns converted to their proper configuration.


Edited by MeatAxe556, 05 February 2015 - 06:31 AM.


#15 GunFun

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 12:49 AM

I tried a Krebs Custom safety ("Mark VI for Saiga Rifles") today that I ordered from CSS.

 

It works..."in a way": although the safety engages to stop the trigger from releasing the hammer, this safety is so incredibly loose and wiggly that it's totally unsafe. There is no tension on the safety lever at all -- the safety lever flops up and down of it's own accord. The dust cover is the only thing that keeps the safety from failing when the trigger is pulled. Otherwise, if you pull the trigger in the "safe" position with the dust cover off, the trigger will let the hammer drop and the safety lever will spin backwards like a windmill!

 

I put a mic to this Krebs POS and found that it was totally out of spec compared to the stock Saiga and a Vepr safeties. The journals "fitting" into the holes in the receiver were anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 mm too small and the notch in the lever that would hold it to the right side of the receiver is probably 1/4 mm too wide -- so the whole thing flops around like spaghetti.

 

I don't know if somebody in QC at Krebs just totally dropped the ball on this one lever or if they're all like this, but this is totally unacceptable for a $60 "custom" part.

 

I did manage to find an old stock Vepr 7.62x39 safety lever lying around that works, although it's pretty stiff and puts another arcing scratch on the receiver because the dimple's in the wrong place, but at least it stops the hammer from dropping in the safe mode.

 

Aggravating!

 

 

Tension can need adjusting with any AK variant safety lever. Lift it past the safety stop, rotate it down as far as it will go. Support the pivot, and bend it whichever way it needs to go to correct tension. It is basically a stiff spring. don't worry about being gentle.



#16 MeatAxe556

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 06:18 AM

 

I tried a Krebs Custom safety ("Mark VI for Saiga Rifles") today that I ordered from CSS.

 

It works..."in a way": although the safety engages to stop the trigger from releasing the hammer, this safety is so incredibly loose and wiggly that it's totally unsafe. There is no tension on the safety lever at all -- the safety lever flops up and down of it's own accord. The dust cover is the only thing that keeps the safety from failing when the trigger is pulled. Otherwise, if you pull the trigger in the "safe" position with the dust cover off, the trigger will let the hammer drop and the safety lever will spin backwards like a windmill!

 

I put a mic to this Krebs POS and found that it was totally out of spec compared to the stock Saiga and a Vepr safeties. The journals "fitting" into the holes in the receiver were anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 mm too small and the notch in the lever that would hold it to the right side of the receiver is probably 1/4 mm too wide -- so the whole thing flops around like spaghetti.

 

I don't know if somebody in QC at Krebs just totally dropped the ball on this one lever or if they're all like this, but this is totally unacceptable for a $60 "custom" part.

 

I did manage to find an old stock Vepr 7.62x39 safety lever lying around that works, although it's pretty stiff and puts another arcing scratch on the receiver because the dimple's in the wrong place, but at least it stops the hammer from dropping in the safe mode.

 

Aggravating!

 

 

Tension can need adjusting with any AK variant safety lever. Lift it past the safety stop, rotate it down as far as it will go. Support the pivot, and bend it whichever way it needs to go to correct tension. It is basically a stiff spring. don't worry about being gentle.

 

 

On a $60 part, I'd just as soon return it for exchange, as CSS says they won't take it back if it's been altered in any way. 

 

Fortunately, I got ahold of CSS and they agreed to exchange this defective lever for another one.



#17 GunFun

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Posted 07 February 2015 - 06:47 AM

That's basic fitting that can't be escaped for any price. Any safety you install will need tension adjusted. It also MUST be checked for function.



#18 MeatAxe556

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 06:36 AM

That's basic fitting that can't be escaped for any price. Any safety you install will need tension adjusted. It also MUST be checked for function.

 

 

This one is out of spec compared to 4 other safety levers I compared it to, but if you're interested, I'll sell this one to you for $65 shipped -- NO REFUNDS, NO EXCHANGES, NO WARRANTIES.


Edited by MeatAxe556, 08 February 2015 - 06:45 AM.


#19 GunFun

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Posted 08 February 2015 - 06:48 AM

Factory safety with self made tab suits me fine.$65 Is about $40 more than I would want to pay for a safety.

 

I noted above what you said about the out of round pivot. That is a problem. I was merely commenting on the tension aspect. You might get lucky and have perfect tension out of the box, but there is always a good chance that the tension will need tweaked. 






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