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New 410 doesn't feed

410 feed problem POS mag 10 rd new gun saiga golden bear silver bear

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#1 dusobox

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 07:55 AM

Bought a new Saiga 410 (Legion USA), and did a full conversion. Looks great, and the Fire Control Group conversion was a snap ( thanks to Carolina Shooters Supply), but won't load Golden Bear rounds at all!

Tried every mag out there Promag/SGM/Factory... up and to the right... chrushes every shell, and nicks the crap out of the plastic shells it can load! What a POS! Paid over $70 for a 10 round factory mag (K-VAR) (the only mag that would feed plastic rounds because of their length), and it busted after 10 rounds.

Can't load any plastic cased ammo in the ProMag/SGM except the most expensive Wichester 410 ammo out there BECAUSE OF THE LENGTH OF THE ROUND... WHAT A BUNCH OF BS!

Don't use a safety lever with a bolt hold open notch, and try to load a mag with Golen Bear with the bolt open. Front lip of the rounds catch on the barrel's top protrusion I guess it's called an ammunition guide, or something like that...

Some people seem to have no problems with their 410, but I find it hard to believe that I received the only bad gun out there.

This thing is a huge POS only worthy of being a paperweight or boat anchor, and I sure as HELL wouldn't want to have to depend on it for protection!!!! Prtection that's hillarious.... just wait and I'll die of old age trying to get Piece Of S!*# to load a round.

IF YOUR THINKING OF BUYING ONE, DON'T... IF YOU OWN ONE GOOD LUCK... AND IF YOU DISAGREE I'LL SELL YOU THIS ONE FOR THE PRICE OF THE AFTER MARKET PARTS I PUT ON IT AND THROW IN THE GUN FOR FREE. Only fired 10 times (jammed 100).

This is one disappointing hunk of junk... save your money and buy a real gun.

Attached File  pop gun done.jpg   111.14KB   4 downloads

Edited by dusobox, 30 April 2012 - 12:05 PM.


#2 {ROS}_me

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:44 AM

Ouch,
First, count to ten and calm down abit.......
I am almost positive if you take the time to describe your problem ,maybe take a few photos .That someone here could help you fix your weapon.

I am still fairly new to the AK myself ,but have found these forum's have answered all and then some of my questions.

Some questions that come to mind .

1 Did the weapon work before the "conversion"?
2 Was a gas puck installed?

Not sure what else to ask , but I hope you get your weapon straight .
me


3 Profit

Edited by {ROS}_me, 29 April 2012 - 09:45 AM.


#3 superhawk138

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:32 AM

Are you using 3"(76mm) shells or 2.5" (64mm)? 2.5" require a different magazine and will not feed from a mag designed for 3"

#4 RED333

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 10:50 AM

Dusobox, give us a chance, we can help.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#5 termite

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Posted 29 April 2012 - 01:03 PM

I'll buy that POS. What's the price?
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#6 liberty -r- death

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:07 PM


Another conversion with out test firing pre conversion.

I'd be willing to buy. How much for it?
- even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while -
- Obuhmer won the election, we're fucked, keep on prepping -

#7 Tuna

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:53 PM

U got any home pic of that gun?

#8 dusobox

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 12:55 PM

Using only 3in. ammo... the gas piston is installed... weapon does fire, and cycle, just not very well... Golden Bear ammo... not at all....

I see that some folks have already experienced the open bolt loading prob with the tip of the shell catching the barrel extension. That's not a deal breaker.

Always pays to test fire before converting one... DOLT! errr...

I appreciate all the help if anyone has any ideas bounce them my way.

I'll get back to you on a price... let's see... 4, 10rd sgm mags, 1, 30rd promag drum, 1 g2 fcg, 1 jte hammer spring,1 tapco t-6 stock & saw grip,1 sgm tri-rail, 1 qd scope mount, 1 alumalite shroud, 1 tapco recoil pad, 1 uag 4 reticle dual red/green sight, 1 tapco shorty foregrip, tapco bipod, 1 plano 108420 gun case, 249 rounds of ammo....

#9 RED333

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Posted 30 April 2012 - 05:28 PM

Pic of a jam?

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#10 dusobox

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 08:48 AM

pics of jam


Attached File  1.jpg   107.53KB   6 downloads

This is with the 4rd. stock mag

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With a little more time last night, and a lot cooler head I was able to find out that the last 2rd's in the 4rd mag would cycle. To me that seems to indicate that I may need to shave down the follower, and try to get the angle just right. I also noted that where the round sits in the mag on the sgm's is much lower and the notch at the rear of the mag is nowhere near as deep as the Russian mags. Probably putting some wear on the spring in the mag wouldn't hurt either.
With all that said it's still a little bizzare to me that chambering a round in this gun is that far off from the factory, and that tolerences aren't a little tighter for guiding the round into the chamber.
Take a look and let me know if you have any ideas, but it looks like it's time to take the drummel to the mags, and see whats what.

#11 RED333

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 07:40 PM

Looks as if it hanging on the extractor ramp, file it on the inside of the barrel, just a little bit till the shell dont hang.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#12 G O B

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 09:01 PM

Be DAMN careful stoning the ejector ramp. If you look a the closed bolt you will see that there is already a LOT of unsupported shell there.

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#13 BB42

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Posted 01 May 2012 - 10:56 PM

Damn, I guess I was lucky. My recollection is that I converted before test firing (newbie).

My experience with .410 ammo is that the manufacturers have completely different ideas on what the overall length of a .410 shotshell should really be. Golden Bear, as cheap as it is, is the standard by which I measure all others. I've had 100% reliability with it in both the factory and SGM mag.

But, it looks like you've another problem entirely. Hold off selling the thing...it's a total hoot to shoot, if you can afford the ammo. Someone here will help you solve the problem.

#14 dusobox

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:05 AM

I appreciate it guys. Really, I do.

Now I'll get some "...black and white glossy photos with red circles and arrows...[Alice's Restaurant]," on them, and see if you can give me a little more detail as to the exact area in question. Gunsmith I ain't. Now, if you need a manual ladies Omega watch circa 1930's-60's repaired I can help, but I wasn't no armorer just a grunt with a 60. So, that being said, let me get some photos, get back to you, and don't worry about me being heavy handed on that sucker because I have definitely learned to use a light touch working on these microscopic watches....

Thanks again, and I'll get back to you this evening with photos, and tons of questions, I'm sure...

#15 RED333

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:36 AM

On the bolt there is a "hook" that will grab the rim of the shell to pull it out of the chamber it is called the "extractor".
The ramp is where that hook rides as the bolt goes into the barrel or to "battey" as it is called.
The edge of the ramp is very sharp on a new firearm of this type, my S12 had the same issue.
Give that area a close look and let us know.
If you find that is a issue, file it a "very little" at a time till it if fixed, mine took 2 times to get it to not cut or jamb.
DO NOT TOUCH THE HOOK (EXTRACTOR) leave it alone.

Edited by RED333, 02 May 2012 - 08:36 AM.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#16 dusobox

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 09:15 AM

Right. I know the extractor on the bolt, and a question for later, how do you take the bolt apart... I remember my old M16A2... Now, there is an area on the breech, barrel end,.... where the shell seats... that is reduced back very slightly for that extractor to catch the edge of the shell. that is visible in the photos, and there is no damage to the shells in that area. Above that on the edge of the barrel... say 12 o'clock to 2 o'clock is where it is really crushing and dinging up these cartridges.

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#17 RED333

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 01:17 PM

Yep, file the inside a little at a time where the arrow is pointing till it does not jam.
Your file will be in the chamber, dont nick the chamber.

Edited by RED333, 02 May 2012 - 01:18 PM.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#18 dusobox

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 04:25 PM

ROGER, THAT.

#19 dusobox

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Posted 02 May 2012 - 08:16 PM

The rat tail file I have is for auto work. Probably way to course for the task at hand. Don't really want to use the dremel because it tends to pull in the direction it's rotating, and can go to undesired places REAL quick. I think I'll take a look in the store and see if I can find a suitable tool. Any suggestions?

I want to be real clear here, I'm reducing the material where the round is striking, and hanging up, correct? Around 12-2 o'clock if I understand correctly. Is that about right?

Here are more pics because I want to get this right.

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#20 dusobox

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 09:06 AM

Found a suitable set of files. Cycled a full mag of golden bear from a sgm mag by hand, and seems to be working. Going to the range tomorrow, and I'll let you know the results.

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#21 RED333

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Posted 04 May 2012 - 11:26 AM

Good file set, PM sent.

Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#22 liberty -r- death

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:12 PM

Is it functioning properly yet?
- even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while -
- Obuhmer won the election, we're fucked, keep on prepping -

#23 poolingmyignorance

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 03:39 PM

Looks like im a little late on the draw. I was going to advise you wap the end of your file with some masking tape. That will lend a little forgiveness should you slip and your file hit inside the chamber. Maybe some one in future will read this and it might help them.
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The ORGINAL Freedom of Religion is freedom FROM religion: My freedom from your religion and your freedom from mine.

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#24 RED333

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:15 PM

I did help him with PM's, he did get it running so much better.
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Rednecks run the Brits out of this country years ago,
I will defend this country from anyone or thing that tries to take it from me or mine
I AM A REDNECK!!!
"If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government,our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." Samuel Adams, 1776

As a wise man once said, "If they keep cornering and harassing the rattlesnake, it will have no option but to strike back."


#25 poolingmyignorance

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Posted 08 May 2012 - 05:28 PM

I did help him with PM's, he did get it running so much better.

Glad yo hear that. This forum has some of the most helpful individuals. Pleased to be a part of it.
Our 2nd Amendment right is the most important of all, because it ensures us our ability to ultimately govern ourselves.
The ORGINAL Freedom of Religion is freedom FROM religion: My freedom from your religion and your freedom from mine.

**my post are meant to be general reference, and are not meant to be all inclusive. So if you say or atempt any of the actions that my postings reference ..your on your own*

#26 dusobox

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Posted 15 May 2012 - 12:08 PM

Got about 90 rounds thru it... that makes for about 100 rounds for the life of the gun. Had 8 jams in the 90 rounds. Most of the jams were toward the end of the of the 90. Brought it home cleaned it up, and filed a little more toward the top of the bore, not much just sort of a touch up to make sure there where no burrs. Got 200 more rounds going to go out in a couple of weeks... fire 50... clean gas tube... fire 50... clean gas tube... fire 50, and see what's what! Zeroed her in at 25yd with that UTG "CQB" sight & Golden Bear sabot slugs... man was that easy, and a $35 sight... you can't beat that! Shot nice tight groups, and the next trip out I'll see what it looks like at 75 & 100 yards. Mags are hard to load, and I only put 9 rounds in them, hoping I can get that 30 round drum to work one of these days, or that was a waste of $100. Just glad she's firing right now. Had people at the range running around behind me & diggin' in the buckets picking up that Golden Bear brass. They didn't realize it was a .410... they thought it was some sort of elephant gun with those big brass rounds! I got Silver Bear this time maybe they'll think it's for killin' warewolves....

Edited by dusobox, 15 May 2012 - 03:32 PM.


#27 liberty -r- death

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:37 AM

Sounds like you may be getting it dialed in. Glad to hear that you have figured out the issue.
- even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while -
- Obuhmer won the election, we're fucked, keep on prepping -

#28 {ROS}_me

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Posted 16 May 2012 - 09:25 PM

Sounds like you are getting close .....Posted Image

Has anyone suggested checking size/ amount / location of your gas ports?

I think there is a post on how and what to check for.

Would love to see you post that you can't jam the thing .... or a 91 out of 90 ,Posted Image





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: 410, feed problem, POS, mag, 10 rd, new gun, saiga, golden bear, silver bear

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