I'm Stoked...

[Squishy 1,149]

Yes, this is yet another "Got a bone stock S-12 (IZ-109) on the way" and I'm all a-twitter post. While I do have, as stated previously, a tendency to go ape shit with stuff like this, there are a couple of reasons I decided to launch a new project. I don't think I'll find a better price than the $614 shipped deal Dan Clark is offering this weekend.

 

There were two things with my first S-12 that I went back and forth in my mind about that I finally decided to "leave be" and wait until I could do them on a new project;

1. I love the MOLOT GK-01 muzzle brake. But as you probably know it's a honkin big damn piece, 5 1/4" long. So I thought seriously about cutting my 19" barrel down (having it done of course) roughly the length of the Molot and mounting it permanently for a legal total length. This wouldn't be anything new but it is pretty much a permanent move. So, this is one of two things I will do differently with the new shotgun.
   
2. The second is a folding stock. I want S-12.2 to be a more compact package than v1.
   

All the rest is wide open which is the fun part. One thing I won't try and do myself is dinking with polishing and profiling internals. Too many consequences if it gets hosed up mainly a lack of replacement parts.

 

And, the great thing is, I have all the info I'll ever need to do the conversion, right here.

 

I'll keep y'ins posted.

Edited May 27, 2012 by Squishy

[timy 1,185]

Glad you're having fun. To me at least, that's the name of the game.

[Squishy 1,149]

Yep, what I'm looking for now is the folding stock. Of course they're out there for sure but, I'm left handed so it will either have to fold to the right side or fold left but be configured in a way that doesn't block the trigger.

[ndmak 10]

get the bone steel folder. folds both ways and you don't have to cut the tang. its what i would have gotten if it came out before i cut the tang.

[Squishy 1,149]

get the bone steel folder. folds both ways and you don't have to cut the tang. its what i would have gotten if it came out before i cut the tang.

 

Big thanks for pointing this out man, I'd have kicked myself if I'd have missed it. I spent a lot of time looking at Ace stuff last night and was pretty much resigned to the fact I'd have to cut the tang.

 

This item you're pointed out will be the ticket it looks like. Thanks again.

[The_Caged_Bird 474]

It folds both ways? How???

[kukurilynch 2]

think you can do the bolt polish and profile yourself I just did works great have faith in yourself and most of all have fun

[Squishy 1,149]

think you can do the bolt polish and profile yourself I just did works great have faith in yourself and most of all have fun

 

I'm pretty handy with a Dremel and I even have a "baby" unit that's like a Dremel but for finer work. But for me it's the fact that if I hose something up, a replacement is not easy. If I could replace and start over I'd do it cause even when you hose something up you still learn something...

 

This, I'll leave to the experts.

[Squishy 1,149]

It folds both ways? How???

 

You have to choose left or right fold, but it's not "ambi-fold" (is that a new word?)

[Squishy 1,149]

Well I'm starting to reach the conclusion that I will be best served by getting the usual folding config i.e. one that folds to left covering the left side of the receiver. I say this as I notice that all "controls" are on the right side, BHO, bolt handle, mag release and safety. But the Bonesteel piece is still best IMO as it does not require tang removal. It's a little odd though, cause most designs give preference to the right handed shooter which makes me wonder why the controls are not on the left side. Not second guessing Mr. K though....

 

So now it's just a matter of finding the right stock like the Ace "Club Stock", the Ace "M4 SOCOM" or the Tromix Skeleton

[gunfun 3,931]

I have one folding to the left with an ace push button. It does not block anything. IMO the AK is basically set up left handed to start with in terms of the bolt handle. Your magazine release should be Ambi anyway. The safety and bolt hold open are right handed.

 

Here is how I did mine. It is easily used folded or open with either hand.

 

http://forum.saiga-1...45-0205122308a/

Edited May 28, 2012 by GunFun

[ndmak 10]

It folds both ways? How???

 

You have to choose left or right fold, but it's not "ambi-fold" (is that a new word?)

 

that's what i meant

[Squishy 1,149]

I have one folding to the left with an ace push button. It does not block anything. IMO the AK is basically set up left handed to start with in terms of the bolt handle. Your magazine release should be Ambi anyway. The safety and bolt hold open are right handed.

 

Here is how I did mine. It is easily used folded or open with either hand.

 

http://forum.saiga-1...45-0205122308a/

 

Very interesting, thanks for responding. When I said the mag release was on the right obviously that was in error. I think what I was thinking is my tendency with both the AK and the S-12 is to grasp the mag with my right hand and hit the mag release with my thumb all in one motion pretty much which I guess is how it's designed to work.

 

Did you make that mag release yourself?

[gunfun 3,931]

Yes, I made the release myself, along with the grip and trigger guard. The aluminum cost a whole $1.99 and I have most of it left over. I did the bends to correspond to the angles and bend radius of my grip and trigger guard, and you should be able to do the same for whatever trigger guard you use. In fact, I would recommend using your stock trigger guard to make one for your self. Just make sure to anneal it as this metal is a killer for tools. A cobalt drill bit and high RPM is in order. ($1.45 at my local industrial tool supply) It is simple to mount to the stock magazine release tab with tapped in screws or with rivets. I've been meaning to do a second one for my IZ108. That one will be riveted.

 

I am pretty sure the usefulness of the release design is shown in the video in my signature. I've seen similar ones done for a 10/22. However, you can add any shape of extended release you desire to your stock one with the same methods. I think mine is a cleaner design that those offered by JTE or RSA, and the two or so other companies with more or less the same design. Those are fine too though. For the standard Rock'n'Lock AK tactical reload, a longer straight release would be easier to hit with the magazine, as S12s release is blocked by the trigger guard. (unlike standard AKs) Every time extended releases come up someone posts about the dangers of too much mass on the release causing the mag to drop on its own. I've tried to cause this problem intentionally with heavy ammo and even adding weight to mine. Even with all that leverage, it didn't happen. I don't think it is something you need to worry about with reasonable designs.

[Squishy 1,149]

Ha, I got a face full of deja vu when I clicked on that link. I watched your vid just after I joined this board, or it may have been before I don't know. At that time I didn't know enough to fully appreciate the issue but in watching it again I think I'm going to revisit the magwell. One thing that would make that an easier choice would be if it were "undoable", i.e. the catch that has to be removed could be added back in a solid way. I know JB Weld works but I don't know if it would be effective for this. Of course it's not a life and death decision but still, if an adapted mag could be rolled back to rock and lock...

 

Did I read that you're going for a Doctorate? If so, in what?

[gunfun 3,931]

I am going for a Juris Doctor. (Law) I've got a couple of years to go yet. I wonder where you read that... Saying I'm a wannabe lawyer just seems like a good way to attract the general hatred for lawyers or seem like a pompous braggart or both. I hope to gain the skills to make the area I live a bit better and solve problems. I think everyone can agree that we need a few legally savvy people who support firearms. Maybe some day I can do some semi charitable work of composing NFA trusts while undermining NFA itself. That would be a satisfying bit of work.

 

I don't think I would want to trust a magazine with a JB weld lug. Plastic welding might work, but it would probably make more sense to sell the mags to someone with a magwell and buy new ones.

 

I can say that I have no desire to go back, even just for the possibility of drums. The only reason I would ever consider reverting would be for the forthcoming drumfriendly JTE magwell and MD doublestacks (maybe drums too.) At the present, it is exactly how I would like it. I would probably say the same for any other of the current magwells on the market. (except for the firebird, which is more of a rock n lock funnel.)

 

The way I see it, in a few months JTE will release their new model and that will be the thing to get. It is supposed to work with unmodified magazines.

When that hits the market, I bet there will be a few packages of magwells and magazines that people take off for the upgrade. It will be a great time to score in the WTS section if you are happy with quickly changing stick mags.

 

Look at any videos by Jack Travers, R&R, or Sergei if you want to see how a practiced user can run with such a setup.

 

--Edited to remove my literacy induced idiocy.--

Edited May 29, 2012 by GunFun

[Squishy 1,149]

Well, without wandering too far afield I'll say the legal system we have in this country isn't likely to change appreciably in the near future, if ever. And it is unfortunate that all too often the measure of justice one receives is proportionate to the amount of money one has. It's easy to rail against all those who practice this profession and paint them all with the same brush. But it is good to know that in reality at least some are "right minded" and sympathetic to certain causes. I won't go back and dig up the thread I saw you mention this but I remember it had to do with not having an excess of time due to studies required in your education.

 

I didn't mean to imply that I would seriously consider using JB Weld for anything of a critical nature and relatively speaking this issue is not as important as some others I have to consider. I've been rockin and lockin AK mags for a while and I've gotten used to it.

 

I've watched many videos of competition shooting and while the speed with with these guys change mags is certainly impressive, in practical application I feel that for me at least, devoting my attention and time to marksmanship etc. is the priority.

[gunfun 3,931]

For me it's just that anything simpler and more natural is better. I see no advantage at anytime to making a magazine harder to insert or remove whether I am going slowly or not. If I got woken up in the middle of the night and had a magazine problem, I like the idea of being able to switch magazines effortlessly before I am awake enough to have focused eyes and a sense of balance. A lot of people fight their magazines at the range. I don't want to fight the magazine under stress. Either way practice pays off, but there are far fewer mistakes you can make with a straight insert magazine system.

[ewoketeer 35]

Yes, this is yet another "Got a bone stock S-12 (IZ-109) on the way" and I'm all a-twitter post. While I do have, as stated previously, a tendency to go ape shit with stuff like this, there are a couple of reasons I decided to launch a new project. I don't think I'll find a better price than the $614 shipped deal Dan Clark is offering this weekend.

 

There were two things with my first S-12 that I went back and forth in my mind about that I finally decided to "leave be" and wait until I could do them on a new project;

1. I love the MOLOT GK-01 muzzle brake. But as you probably know it's a honkin big damn piece, 5 1/4" long. So I thought seriously about cutting my 19" barrel down (having it done of course) roughly the length of the Molot and mounting it permanently for a legal total length. This wouldn't be anything new but it is pretty much a permanent move. So, this is one of two things I will do differently with the new shotgun.
   
2. The second is a folding stock. I want S-12.2 to be a more compact package than v1.
   

All the rest is wide open which is the fun part. One thing I won't try and do myself is dinking with polishing and profiling internals. Too many consequences if it gets hosed up mainly a lack of replacement parts.

 

And, the great thing is, I have all the info I'll ever need to do the conversion, right here.

 

I'll keep y'ins posted.

 

A couple of thoughts...others have said the optimum length for a shotgun barrel is about 15 inches long. The other thing is legality...if you cut the barrel down under 18 inches, you run afoul of NFA 1934 regs (18" min length barrel, etc.). Supposedly, if you remove the barrel from the receiver, it's considered a part and not the weapon. Then, if you permanently mount the Molot to the barrel (weld,silver solder, etc.) so the overall length is over 18", it is supposedly legal to remount to the receiver. However check with sound legal counsel first. I'm no lawyer...

[Squishy 1,149]

A couple of thoughts...others have said the optimum length for a shotgun barrel is about 15 inches long. The other thing is legality...if you cut the barrel down under 18 inches, you run afoul of NFA 1934 regs (18" min length barrel, etc.). Supposedly, if you remove the barrel from the receiver, it's considered a part and not the weapon. Then, if you permanently mount the Molot to the barrel (weld,silver solder, etc.) so the overall length is over 18", it is supposedly legal to remount to the receiver. However check with sound legal counsel first. I'm no lawyer...

 

Thanks for the input. When this is done, it will be done by an appropriate gunsmith and, as I said in the original post;

 

"So I thought seriously about cutting my 19" barrel down (having it done of course) roughly the length of the Molot and mounting it permanently for a legal total length."

 

This has been discussed extensively here and I've taken heed of the warnings given. When I do this, it will be done within the law and 100% legal.

[Squishy 1,149]

Well, I just picked up S-12 #2. It's interesting to see one bone stock from the factory. I bought my first one converted and spruced up a bit. Now the fun begins....

[dustindu4 101]

I'm a big fan of the folding to the right configuration. The folding ace adapter CSS sells has a sling mount on it, which is only useful when it folds to the right (bolt side). The DPH stock clears the bolt, barely

 

yes my rear sight is on backwards

Edited June 6, 2012 by dustindu4

[Squishy 1,149]

The bottom line is, if you prefer it, that's the way it should be. But it seems to me that while the bolt may clear when in operation, it's not easy to grasp if you need to pull it back, same with the safety. If the right stock is used and folded left there's nothing for it to get in the way of or block. Some have commented that the folder is just so it takes up less room when storing or transporting but to me if the gun can't be easily operated when the stock is folded I wouldn't go to the trouble. But that's just me.