Farsanarian 0 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Hey Fellas, I'm a long time AK guy but got my first S12 last year. Did some decent mods to the bolt and some other things... runs pretty good. It runs all low brass with the MD Booster Puck. But I always just hated having to make that adjustment on the plug between loads, so I bought an Auto plug. I should say... I had to really turn the adjustment screw on the auto plug a bunch of times to get the low brass to cycle... it seems to be screwed in almost as far as it goes. No need for loctite thats how far down its screwed. Ran it with the MD Booster Puck. Low brass started cycling. Then I started mixing in high brass loads. Of course I noticed a big difference in ejection. But I really noticed a BIG difference in ejecting. All of the heavier loads were really launching out of the gun... High and far. Is that normal for this set up? I'm sure there have been plenty of others here who have used a similar set up with these two products... no? My worry is abnormal wear and tear on the gun because i fell in love with shooting it! I have been inspecting the gun after use... and to me... (not being a Saiga 12 guy really) it seems like the rear trunion takes a beating. However, that may be normal... I'm not sure... thats why I'm asking. The dust cover still seems to fit tightly but that bolt carrier sure does seem like it's beating the crap out of the rear trunion when I look at it. I have 9 AK builds of varying origins and none of the rears look beat up like the S12 looks... and the gun is relatively new. However, this may be normal for S12's. So basically... I'm running an Auto Plug with a Booster Buck and see some pretty strong ejections with High Brass and the rear trunnion looks pretty marked up. Am I Ok? Or should I make some changes? Thank you in advance for any tips you guys offer... Thank you. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 the booster puck is not for use with high brass and it is not recommended with the auto plug either 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 If you have to run a booster puck to get low brass to run, either your gun is under gassed or not broken in. How many rounds through it? 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE VILLIAN 55 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 the booster puck is not for use with high brass and it is not recommended with the auto plug either +1 Absolutely Correct Mr Hammer I would keep the plug and get rid of that puck if you cant cycle low brass check your ports and you may want to go with a CSS performance puck this is how mine is set up with the auto plug, i originally could not cycle low brass and i followed the Russians recomendations and i now cycle flawelessly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Farsanarian 0 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Thanks Fellas. I knew you guys would know. The reason the booster puck is in there with the Auto Plug is… that is how I got the gun when it came back from C&S Metall Werkes. Matt had the Booster Puck in there with the factory plug and it was cycling low brass on “#2” great… not really on “#1” though. I just hated having to turn that plug back and forth to cycle different loads. And I liked the idea of being able to fill the mags with all different loads… that’s fun. So I put the Auto Plug on but I never took the Booster Puck out. And I must say… it was cycling everything great… I just noticed the slugs and Buckshot were really ejecting out of the gun extremely far. Damn… now I’m bummed. I know AK’s can take beatings but I’m just getting started with this gun. I sure hope I haven’t put too much of a beatin’ on the gun this early on. Because of the low recoil on S12’s I must have put… idk… maybe 500 slugs and 00 shot through the gun so far in this configuration. You guys think I may have caused any permanent damage to the internals of the gun? Or do you think I’m ok? Dag… bummed out. Guys just don’t really know how much fun S12’s are until you really get in to shooting one!!!! Right now this gun is my favorite gun to shoot! I’d be bummed if I put a hurtin’ on the gun so early in the game. I’m not sure it’s even broken in yet! I’d hate to have damaged it. Thanks fellas! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sumsky 115 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Can you post pictures of your rear Trunion. I am sure one of the members here will be able to let you know how extensive the damage is if there is any, Russian steel is pretty tough. You should get a recoil Buffer from CSS. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
hobbyshooter 59 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I didn't like the booster puck. It seems to get hammered considerably more than my KA or factory puck and it jammed up the gun after ~200 rounds of birdshot. The recoil spring just couldn't knock it forward. I had to really beat it to get it out of the gun. Enough that I decided it was not going back in the gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Farsanarian 0 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 I will post a pic of the Trunion. I should have snapped a shot during my inspection after the range this past weekend. I’ll post a pic. The front corners of the channel where the recoil spring locks into has kind of gotten a burr on each inside corner from the carrier slamming against it. And the rear of the Trunion looks all marred and marked up from the Carrier slamming against it. I’ll post a pic tonight. I really appreciate the help and all of the suggestions fellas!!! Much appreciated. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
THE VILLIAN 55 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Can you post pictures of your rear Trunion. I am sure one of the members here will be able to let you know how extensive the damage is if there is any, Russian steel is pretty tough. You should get a recoil Buffer from CSS. Cant believe i didnt mention that, good call sumsky get a recoil buffer i dont run any of my saigas without one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Farsanarian 0 Posted June 4, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 Historically, I never ran recoil buffers on any of my AK variants but it actually may be in order on this Shotgun. Generally speaking... it looks like S12s kind of take a beating... a recoil buffer may be a good idea in this case. Aren't there a few recoil buffers to choose from? Which recoil buffer do you guys run typically? Thanks again fellas! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegade331 31 Posted June 4, 2012 Report Share Posted June 4, 2012 (edited) Recoil buffers cause your s12 to short stroke. I wouldn't put one in your gun. Edited June 4, 2012 by renegade331 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ultra7350 21 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Recoil buffers cause your s12 to short stroke. I wouldn't put one in your gun. That is what I was thinking also when I install the buffer last week. The S12 started to get some FTE once in a while on bird shot after the buffer was installed. It shot bird shot fine b4 the buffer. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Fallschirmjager667 729 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 fuck buffers, get your gun to work properly, the only booster type puc that can be used with high brass is the css, i have one and love it Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Asmodeus 13 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) I polished the bolt. Reprofiled the hammer. And put about 200+ rounds through the S12. It just kept choking on target loads. Not always. I knew it had to be close. So I ordered the reliability kit from CSS and put in their piston and the MD Vplug. (Not the recoil spring) It shot everything in sight. The MD plug adjusts so easily - while the auto plug may be more convenient ... I like the insurance I can manually regulate the gas to prevent damage to the gun. I'm a really happy camper. The old lady put a few hundred rounds through the S12 today and it only choked on the #8 shot twice. All the 7 1/2 did fine. And the Winchester super target (1300fps) was really slick. It would almost go on setting 4. 3 port gun. Unobstructed ports. Factory size ports. She was draining the 10rd mags in 2.5 seconds. I thought about the auto plug. But I doubt I'd change from this now that I have it. It just works... all the time. Remington sluggers were going on setting #3. So was the 2.75" buckshot. Hi velocity slugs took setting #2. So I know I'm not pushing it to hard, and I still have setting 1 for 3" and I shouldn't be over working it. IMO down is just as important as up when it comes to these guns. I still have room to meter down the gas so I don't bang it to pieces. For $50... I really like the plug and piston. Edited June 5, 2012 by Asmodeus Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Farsanarian 0 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Here's a few pics of the Trunion. Whatta ya think? Looks pretty beat up to me... but I don't know much about S12s. I'm bummed out about the way this looks though. Thoughts? Thanks fellas... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Mephis 82 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) My rear trunnion looks a whole hell of a lot worse than that... Rivets still tight, doesn't show any signs of having lost strength, but it is 11 years old and has had a high 3" round count. It's an under gassed gun with an auto plug and booster puck, I run a buffer now days which hasn't affected reliability at all for me, but it has stopped the battering. A lot of why my gun is still in one piece may have to do with the ace stock conversion block and how many friggin screws are holding that thing wedged in there. With the current set up, 3" 000 buck feels about like shooting a very weak 308 semi-auto. I'll take my chances with the gun having a bit too strong of ejection rather than it not working when it needs to, as in the past 6 years there's never been any indication of the gun giving up the ghost. Here's a picture of my trunnion... I haven't refinished it so the U shaped indention has always left me with a question mark. I don't remember if it originally had it or not, but it is squeaky clean minus some dust. Edited June 5, 2012 by Tombs Quote Link to post Share on other sites
renegade331 31 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 Here's a few pics of the Trunion. Whatta ya think? Looks pretty beat up to me... but I don't know much about S12s. I'm bummed out about the way this looks though. Thoughts? Thanks fellas... You don't have anything to worry about. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sumsky 115 Posted June 5, 2012 Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 My rear trunnion looks a whole hell of a lot worse than that... Rivets still tight, doesn't show any signs of having lost strength, but it is 11 years old and has had a high 3" round count. It's an under gassed gun with an auto plug and booster puck, I run a buffer now days which hasn't affected reliability at all for me, but it has stopped the battering. A lot of why my gun is still in one piece may have to do with the ace stock conversion block and how many friggin screws are holding that thing wedged in there. With the current set up, 3" 000 buck feels about like shooting a very weak 308 semi-auto. I'll take my chances with the gun having a bit too strong of ejection rather than it not working when it needs to, as in the past 6 years there's never been any indication of the gun giving up the ghost. Here's a picture of my trunnion... I haven't refinished it so the U shaped indention has always left me with a question mark. I don't remember if it originally had it or not, but it is squeaky clean minus some dust. That indentation looks like factory work. That is worn. Thats why Saigas are #1 takes a licking and keeps on ticking. I am sure the OP feels a lot better after seeing your Trunion compared to his. His is still new. Wonder why some people have problems with short stroking and some dont when using a buffer, maybe it has to do with the rounds being used. My wife never short strokes me. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Farsanarian 0 Posted June 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 5, 2012 I am sure the OP feels a lot better after seeing your Trunion compared to his. His is still new. You are right.... it does make me feel a bit better. I just want to get longevity out of the gun and I can already tell S12s take way more abuse as compared to an AK rifle. This is my first experience with an S12 so I'm still trying to sort things out a bit. I was just comparing the way the S12 Trunion looked as compared to any of my AKs. But I guess I’m learning you simply can’t compare the two. I will definitely remove the Booster Puck and put the original Puck back in… unless someone has alternative suggestions? Thanks again for all the feedback fellas! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sumsky 115 Posted June 7, 2012 Report Share Posted June 7, 2012 My rear trunnion looks a whole hell of a lot worse than that... Rivets still tight, doesn't show any signs of having lost strength, but it is 11 years old and has had a high 3" round count. It's an under gassed gun with an auto plug and booster puck, I run a buffer now days which hasn't affected reliability at all for me, but it has stopped the battering. A lot of why my gun is still in one piece may have to do with the ace stock conversion block and how many friggin screws are holding that thing wedged in there. With the current set up, 3" 000 buck feels about like shooting a very weak 308 semi-auto. I'll take my chances with the gun having a bit too strong of ejection rather than it not working when it needs to, as in the past 6 years there's never been any indication of the gun giving up the ghost. Here's a picture of my trunnion... I haven't refinished it so the U shaped indention has always left me with a question mark. I don't remember if it originally had it or not, but it is squeaky clean minus some dust. Last night I was tearing apart my 7.62x39 and the rear Trunion is machined exactly like how your beat up S12 trunion looks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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