Slugs For Cheap

[Squishy 1,149]

I was in Walmart earlier today and among other essentials I wanted to pick up more bulk shells. I'm going to my Nephew's wedding next week and as everyone knows shotguns are an integral part of any proper Southern wedding. I'm looking at the two usual suspects the Winchester Universal and the Federal Game Load. 6 of one, half dozen of the other right? I see another option which I bought one box of before, Winchester Super Speed Xtra #8 game loads. I notice these are rated at 1350 FPS which indicates to me given the same payload (1 oz) these might have a tad more juice than the 1200 FPS Universals and the 1290 FPS Federals. And they're priced the same $5.97 per box.

 

So I snagged all they had on the shelf, 7 boxes. Is the difference worth giving the Super Speeds preference?

 

GF, have you ever looked at the innards of a DDupleks slug? Your drawing looks similar.

 

pointless, interesting that this guy would do a one off mold, this is correct right? The Thumper looks good;

 

[kindapointless 22]

Correct one off molds are what he does. If you look at the catalog all those are one off user submitted designs. Once you submit them he adds them to his catalog. Excellent customer service he will even go off a generalised idea and help you flush out the concept.

[kindapointless 22]

The russian slug that that im trying to figure out.

Edited October 17, 2012 by kindapointless

[Squishy 1,149]

Correct one off molds are what he does. If you look at the catalog all those are one off user submitted designs. Once you submit them he adds them to his catalog. Excellent customer service he will even go off a generalised idea and help you flush out the concept.

 

Wow, this is interesting. Usually if you don't provide a 100% engineered CAD drawing and pay hefty setup charges and meet the minimum order most places won't even talk to you. I'm sure GF will have some fun with this. And the Russian slug looks wicked. Almost looks like the Hammer Industries "Ex-Wife".

[gunfun 3,931]

I have some of the DDuplex slugs. The problem with them is on the top of the page-- They aren't cheap.

 

My idea is for there to be a commercially available mold that can be used with common birdshot wads, just like the Lyman, but can be made into a Breneke style with a commercial tail that just snaps on. It would be pointless to make the mold unless someone else is making the tail. Maybe Claybusters could make a cheap tail... If it costs more time and money to make them, then I may as well buy Hexolit 32 or Monolit. BTW, Monolit slugs have been priced similarly to Sluggers lately, so I'd take them over sluggers any day. If there was an easy way to cut some standard wad and have it press inside a hollow, that might be feasible for a custom mold. I am open to ideas for that. It would cost some money to have the initial rounds tested before I would be willing to run them through a gun.

 

I don't know if I will be doing any casting at all any time soon, but I think I would plan to start with something common before I got too wild with experiments.I am new to reloading generally, and it would be foolish to get too crazy before I have the basics down. I've got a lot of loads to make before I get any more components or tools.

 

A custom mold for my proposed slug would be neat, but it wouldn't do me any good unless someone made the "tail" I'd just buy premade Breneke or Gualani complete slug/wad assemblies if they could be had for 15-20 cents. However All I have seen cost about the same as buying a loaded round.

[Squishy 1,149]

For reference purposes;

 

 

In the scientific "burn it in the ashtray" test it appeared to have a butt-load of powder, couldn't find the exact amount.

 

I assume the Monolit32 weighs 32 grams.

[Squishy 1,149]

As for price, these are the cheapest slugs I've ever found, 250 for $149. Of course not as cheap as Birdslugs.

 

I'd be willing to do the casting or help in any other way but I know this would not be like doing it yourself.

 

And how do you think the design above would compare with the other offering currently available?

 

770 grain = 1 3/4 oz.

 

Hornady SST Sabot - 300 grain - 1,371 FPS @ 200 yards

 

Edited October 18, 2012 by Squishy

[kindapointless 22]

Horandy will walk all over anything not custom but and its a BIG but most rifleing is way to slow for them to really get nuts. 1 in 36 is the most common but these really shine in a faster twist. Alot of custom builders are having good luck with 1 in 24 all the way up to 1 in 20

[Squishy 1,149]

...and none in none for the Saiga. Hopefully this will change soon.

[kindapointless 22]

Your telling me im the one that drove to er shaw barrel mfr and waved around a fistful of cash to get a slug barrel made years ago. Now people are making them. I also tried to get sauvestre ammo in which smokes everthing else. Century has it now but 5 rounds for 40 bucks. Thats the crazy ammo its still climbing at 300 yards. I hope it keeps going like this with the new models coming out in saigas too. I want that interchangeable barrel system tony made a couple years ago too.

Edited October 18, 2012 by kindapointless

[Squishy 1,149]

I ran about 50 of the Birdslugs yesterday at the indoor range and for the most part they ran fine. The only problem I noticed is that with 2 or 3 the squeezing of the hull to start the crimp open caused some deformation that made the shell not want to fit in the chamber. Of course the more care that is taken when doing the "squeeze" the less likely this would be to happen.

 

But what I'm wondering is if there is a die made to reform or ensure the size and shape of the hull is correct...much like the die that reforms the brass part of the shell. I know the Lee Load All II does this to an extent in the pre-crimp and crimp stage but I guess it's not always enough.

[Marc 147]

The first stage (farthest left) on your Load All 2 is the sizing/decapping die along with the metal "bushing" thing that re-sizes the base of the hull. If you could remove the decapping pin it might take the "squeeze" out of the hull and make things more uniform for you.

[kindapointless 22]

Drill a hole in a metal plate and push it through then pull it back out. Cheap and easy. I know a guy who uses a hole in a board but its not as nice.

[Squishy 1,149]

Using the last station on the LLA II for this purpose seem a worthy pursuit for two reasons.

 

1 - To a degree you are either forcing the shell through a hole or forcing a hole over the shell so the leverage build into the device makes this a virtually no effort operation...not that I mind effort but I have a way of getting unintended results when exerting force on anything.

 

2 - The plate screwed on to the base holds the shell so there's no pulling, simply raise the handle and the shell stays put.

 

 

So if a "collar" were machined so that the vertical tube would sit securing in it with an ID that is tight enough to ensure it would force the hull to conform much like the existing piece for resizing brass, I think this would be quick and effective. But, the magic word is "machined". My CNC machine is broken at this time.

[ctd 20]

This would have to be one of the more helpfull threads on the forum

 

I'm ordering a slug mould and loadall on payday

[Squishy 1,149]

This would have to be one of the more helpfull threads on the forum

 

I'm ordering a slug mould and loadall on payday

 

Glad it's helped you as it's certainly helped me. A lot of good input, all I did was supply the cluelessness. Are you going to use a pot and a dipper or a melter? The 10lb melter has worked well and I think it made things simpler than having to dip from a pot and then pour into the mold. Mold temp is the thing to get a feel for IMO. The melter will maintain temp pretty good but the mold temp will fluctuate depending how fast you're working. The Load All is useful for making Birdslugs but I'm already collecting hulls for reloading. I've thought of starting another thread with the focus being on reloading but there is already a lot of good info here already.

[gunfun 3,931]

Don't people just use thermometers?

[Squishy 1,149]

For? From my experience a melter maintains fairly constant temp. Even when more lead is added it gets up to temp quickly. As I said above the mold fluctuates more than the molten lead does. I use an IR thermometer and I shoot the mold periodically mainly to tell if it's too cool. You get a feel for it getting too hot. If you pour a bunch consecutively it will heat up and you can judge whether or not the sprue plate is too hot by how long it takes the sprue to "frost over". Of course it's not frost but it looks similar as it cools.

 

They make analog thermometers for the lead pot but you can get a decent IR thermometer for the price of a lead thermometer and use it for more things. I'm certainly not a casting expert but I'm sure after you've done it a few times you get a feel for all this stuff like temperature.

[ctd 20]

I will be using a melter that I made some time ago for casting 9mm

 

Slugs are much less common in NZ than they are in the USA so the $ savings will be much greater

[Squishy 1,149]

Do you have a source for cheap, bulk birdshot shells?

[ctd 20]

Do you have a source for cheap, bulk birdshot shells?

 

Cheap is relative,about nz$0.55/us$0.45 a shell for hunting ammo if you 250 rounds at a time.

 

I won't need to buy any to try this out tho as I have a fair amount stashed away from a bulk buy a few years ago. And I will be saving the shot as I have a source for old plumbing lead

 

Even better I have found a new loadall2 for sale for half price

[RED333 1,025]

Great, now we have unleashed a monster, lead will go up in price.

Glad yall are using this, keeps yall out of trouble.

[Squishy 1,149]

The Russian monster has already been unleashed, this is just a cheap way to feed it.

 

Which brings me to another question. I assume whatever is placed inside the cup remains in the cup until cup and contents exit the barrel. I ask because I ran across a quantity of steel ball bearings .31" in size which is right between #1 and 0 buckshot. Of course you'd want to be aware of how these would behave as opposed to lead, might not want to go shooting thick steel plate.

 

Oh, and an observation. I was thinking today as I often do on occasion (but not too much at once) and it occurred to me that I have never felt any soreness nevermind getting a bruise the next day after shooting my S-12. And believe me, just like staying off the gas pedal in that Z-28 I used to have not dumping a mag is hard for me to do. I attribute this to the inherent lack of kick in the S-12 but also the GK-01 and the Enidine Shot Shock tube. And while I have shot copious amounts of bulk birdshot I've also shot many Rio High Power 00 buck, DDupleks slugs and a variety of factory high velocity shells. Not even a twinge in my old-ass left shoulder.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Squishy

[gunfun 3,931]

Those are much lighter than lead, and prone to ricochet off of hard things. The shotcup should protect your barrel. Some chokes are designed to strip the shotcup earlier. Some chokes, particularly turkey chokes are specifically not for use with steel shot. Ditto older shotguns made before steel shot became prevalent.

[Squishy 1,149]

I have no chokes turkey or otherwise. I wouldn't want to shoot them for fun I just thought they might make a potent round for the right occasion.

[csspecs 1,987]

The russian slug that that im trying to figure out.

 

Plastic tip to help air flow.

 

 

For? From my experience a melter maintains fairly constant temp. Even when more lead is added it gets up to temp quickly. As I said above the mold fluctuates more than the molten lead does. I use an IR thermometer and I shoot the mold periodically mainly to tell if it's too cool. You get a feel for it getting too hot. If you pour a bunch consecutively it will heat up and you can judge whether or not the sprue plate is too hot by how long it takes the sprue to "frost over". Of course it's not frost but it looks similar as it cools.

 

They make analog thermometers for the lead pot but you can get a decent IR thermometer for the price of a lead thermometer and use it for more things. I'm certainly not a casting expert but I'm sure after you've done it a few times you get a feel for all this stuff like temperature.

 

You get a feel for it. Back when I cast a lot I would keep a tamp cloth near to cool the mold. Normally I'd cool when a spur cut to easy, you can feel that difference.

 

I wore out a couple of the Lee molds and a couple sharpshoot molds, totally trashed a lee bottom dripper. Probably got 4k slugs on my first lee mold before it was totally done. The sharpshooter needs to have the pin redrilled one size up since its loose now.

 

The sharpshooter mold I have was altered to make one long spur, and my brother made a shear that cut the spurs off in a single slice.

 

 

For cheap reloads:

Wolf shotgun primers are 2 cents or less a piece in bulk.

Powder should be selected that uses fewest grains, and is still cheap.

Shotcups, Nobel sports made a really heavy duty shotcup, very cheap.

.

[Groovy Mike 36]

I don't use a thermometer at all.

 

Squishy - I have 30 pounds of steel BBB shot that I need to develop a water fowling load for....

 

Federal law says that you can not hunt migratory birds with lead shot so there is a whole category of shotshell reloading that deals with steel shot. They make wads especially for it. I found a great deal on the steel shot at a yard sale so I snapped it up, but I just haven't taken the time to delve into loading it yet....

Edited October 23, 2012 by Groovy Mike

[Squishy 1,149]

CS, I can see that the Lee molds will get FUBAR eventually and as for temps I did have the experience of getting in the groove and not paying attention, the mold got smoking hot, I poured, threw the sprue plate and dumped....molten lead. Needless to say it made a mess.

 

Mike, I wonder how steel bearing balls would differ from steel shot. I imagine the bearing would be much harder as they must withstand high temps and other abusing forces. Having been in surplus industrial equipment I can imagine one might find a deal on appropriately sized steel balls occasionally but larger in size than birdshot. Like I said above the ones I ran across were .31" which would be a good size IMO.

[Groovy Mike 36]

 

 

 

great stuff here:

 

http://www.shotgunworld.com/amm.html

[Squishy 1,149]

Mike, thanks for posting the chart, I've used it for some time. Was there something specific you wanted to show? If so, I don't want to miss it.