alternety 7 Posted October 1, 2012 Report Share Posted October 1, 2012 I realize that is probably the better part of an oxymoron, but it is a goal. Rather than buy all the reloading stuff initially, I want something to shoot when my VEPR 12 arrives. I will be shooting for target applications (read - making a big bang and having fun) when I get the new gun. My thinking: get the cheapest ammo that will be a good reloading material. I don't care how big a hole it makes in anything at any range. No zombies will be injured in this exercise. Neighbors annoyed - exceeds the scope of this post. Recommendations. All you guys have to have done something like this at least once. Absolute lowest initial price vs lifetime cost. Revised to cheap round with best lifetime cost. So initial cost vs (cost to reload X number for reloads for the hulls). And I really don't care what sort of projectile is in the initial factory loads. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 SO are you saying you want CHEAP hulls? Or GOOD hulls?? How many times do you PLAN to reload EACH hull?? There isnt really any such thing as CHEAP, GOOD hulls... ITs typically EITHER / OR... You can RELOAD any hulls you want... is it a good idea?? see below... Cheap hulls will be anything you can buy in the bulk packs. For Federal... they have a multiple piece hull with a FIBER basewad... this is kinda like heavy duty cardboard if you wanna think that way... Can you reload them?? SURE!!! What data do you plan to use to do it? Federal top gun hulls reload just fine with some of the data out there... but its not QUITE right... as they are NOT federal gold medal hulls which are made much better, and are designed to be reloaded. Federal gold medal hulls will come in the higher priced ammo... Remington hulls are ALMOST universal in design... from the cheap green ones, to the better STS and nitro golds. You are going to pay a LOT more for a box of STS or Nitro Gold 27, than you are cheaper remington bulk... They all reload just about the same... however you will not get the same number of loadings out of the cheaper hulls before they start having issues... ( bad crimps, buckling, splitting, primer pockets loosening up, etc... ) The cheaper ones have STEEL bases... the good ones still use brass! And hi base or low base makes NO difference in loading... its all hype. Leftover logic from a better time... WInchester hulls are going to be similar to federal above... the good ones are MADE to be reloadable... the A&A ones... and some of those are better than others... The cheap winchester hulls have fiber basewads or a two piece plastic basewad and loading data is not specifically FOR THOSE hulls... will it work?? yes... but then you can reload ANY hull you want with ANYTHING and it will go boom at least once... the question is what else will go boom too... and after how long?? How long before the basewad starts to disintegrate and crumble and fall apart... My advice... spend a little more to buy DECENT hulled ammo... and then get the PROPER load datas for those hulls and load them AS THE RELOADING DATA STATES... and you will be just fine. Reloading isnt about tossing things together to save a few bucks and have shells that will go off... do that and sooner or later you will not be pleased with the results... With all that said... what would *I* buy??? First off a GOOD reloading manual... read it, learn it, know it! Then as far as Shells... Remington Nitro Gold 27's or STS shells... as a first choice.... Second choice... Winchester A&A ONE PIECE moulded hulls as a second choice... ( problem is you wont know which ones are which till ya shoot some and look down inside... ) I have loaded LOTS of cheap federal top gun hulls for the kids to shoot trap with... I preferred to ONLY LOAD THEM ONCE... and if for some reason they got saved... NEVER reloaded them more than twice!!! They went bang, and kids broke birds... then they got thrown away... I made sure to mark them so they knew to toss those hulls!!!! ( as I said above... crimps start to get bad, or basewads start to get funny... ) Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted October 2, 2012 Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Below is the NEWER style TWO piece base A&A hull... BElow is the OLD stye ONE PIECE base A&A hull... This is the better hull from Winchester! Below are examples of the paper basewad ( these are federals, but they are all pretty much the same ) Below are different REMINGTON hulls... all one piece... but as explained above... some differences are there... steel or brass bases for one... quality of the plastic making up the hull itself is another... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
alternety 7 Posted October 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2012 Thanks. My thread title could have used some more thought. What I really want is the "sweet spot" in general terms. That would be the range where the total system cost hits a minimum. (Cost per shell new) + [(cost per reload) X (number of times a shell can be used)]/(1+# reloads). If my head can still do simple algebra. There are probably multiple suppliers with the same number of possible reloads. Your information posted above is quite useful. I have never reloaded, although I have had some rifle/pistol equipment for about 50 years. It is a brand new set of Herters "Perfect" press and some dies. Nor do I know a whole lot about shotgun shell construction nuances. I recently acquired some 9mm guns and will probably actually set up the reloading tools in the not-to-distant future. Or maybe get new ones plus a set for shotgun shells. I have no idea how Herter tools stand in comparison to modern equipment. Yes, I understand the need for a reloading manual. If anyone else has any other info about the reload capability of some more of the myriad of shotgun shell producers, that would help me define a sweet spot by providing the "number of reloads" number. With that I can work the numbers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
IndyArms 10,186 Posted October 3, 2012 Report Share Posted October 3, 2012 start with the top gun hulls... reload with federal gold medal data, just load light... and I think you will be fine to START with... as the bug bites harder... then move up to better quality hulls for better performance and longer life... As far as a reloading press for 12 gauge... I cant sing the praises enough of the MEC 600 jr. mark V... fabulous press for the price!!! It will last your forever if you use it properly!!! I have loaded umpteen THOUSANDS of rounds on mine... and its still perfect! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
msrdiver 42 Posted October 5, 2012 Report Share Posted October 5, 2012 INDY is a great reloading source. FYI Some brands, perhaps Remington included, brash wash the steel base. This does nothing to improve ejection. It is only a marketing illusion that you've bought a better hull. I'd worry less about brass v steel if you are reloading 1-2 times then pitching the hull. With that said, Federal Gold Medal hulls are perhaps the most coveted for reloading and they have nice brass bases. You will feel a difference when resizing the brass v steel bases. My $0.02 Remington Hulls I urge you to reload the Remington hulls because they are plentiful and recrimp really well. STS and NITRO hulls I'll reload several times until they show signs of stress/failure. Okay, I usually get tired of hauling them back home before they're truly done. Winchester AA hulls are good to reload. Winchester Universal hulls don't feel, to the touch, like I should be reloading them. Fiochhi White Rhino, blue colored hulls, look great because of the tall brass washed steel base and smooth hull, but crimp terribly. I've cut open more of these shells, to salvage the componants, than I've actually shot. Just terrible to reload on a Lee Load All II press. I get bumpy, pointed, inverted, and collpased crimps. Just terrible to reload these hulls. Federal Bulk hulls Fiberbase wad so pickup your own, or collect during lack of rain, so no moisture wicks into the wad. Straight walls are good for larger payloads or lower pressures. Now you are thinking, "I just had to ask." Quote Link to post Share on other sites
netpackrat 566 Posted October 12, 2012 Report Share Posted October 12, 2012 I reload the Remington Nitro/STS hulls almost exclusively. The Peters trap load hulls appear to also be the same thing, and that ammo is a little cheaper. Another thing I like about these hulls is they come in different colors, so I can color code my loads as to what they are. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
filthygovemploye 64 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 (edited) great pics! thanks! anyone havea link for the un chopped up side, as well as the carton they come in? i lose track of all the names etc, and the sheet is just kinda hard to keep track of for a guy wiht so many things on his mind! (sarcasm) Edited November 9, 2012 by filthygovemploye Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Deadeye 325 Posted November 9, 2012 Report Share Posted November 9, 2012 I like the win aa hulls. but I havent tried many of the others Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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