Learning Exp. from the Range

[Beretty 37]

Went to the range yesterday and experienced a myriad of problems. Just when I thought my S12 was issue free. First, anyone ever shoot Fiocchi 1 oz. Low Recoil Slugs? 1150 FPS. I've used them before and last time I had them in my S12, they fired/cycled fine. This time, not so much. I imagine that they are not powerful enough to extract. Which I'm ok with but wondering why they worked last time. Slight variation in pressure? I clean/lube my guns meticulously.

Next up, Federal Truball Rifled Slug. 1 oz. 1600 fps. These cycled better but when shot from a Promag 20 drum, the drum was knocked loose and fell to the ground. When it hit the ground, all shells were ejected from the drum. Anyone have a similar issue with Promag or MD20? These shells worked fine with factory 5 rounder. Afterwards, I ran 20 Winchester Universal and 10 Remington Express High Velocity through the drum with no malfunctions. Any other high powered rounds give you guys trouble?

On top of that, I was shooting about 8 inches to the right @ 50 yards. I have AK style front sight and rear ghost ring. Pretty sure it's Krebs but ghost ring has a bead on top off it. I recently posted how much I liked these sights for slug shooting. If the front sight blade drifted that much from sitting in a rifle case, I may be in the market for new sights. Maybe my eyes were off and it was just a bad day shooting. I will wait until my next range trip before I decide on new sight options.

[DresNightfire 39]

You will want to stay with the 1250-1290 fps 1oz minimum loads. Any low recoil, target loads, and dove loads will require polishing the trigger group, bolt and bolt carrier, low recoil spring, and possibly gas port widening. Always start with the trigger group and bolt carrier & bolt before messing with the recoil spring and ports. Sounds like the promag drum needs some fitting (filing underneath the mag catch notch on the drum itself) as it's not seated all the way.

[Beretty 37]

Thanks for response. I know the Fiocchi are too light but they cycled last time. The Walmart bulk is 1200 fps and they have not given me any problems yet. Remington's Low Recoil Slugs are also 1200 fps and cycle fine. I've been contemplating the Lightning Bolt but that's for another thread. The drum hasn't failed before this. I have used shells up to 1500 fps before w/o problems. I'm wondering if the extra 100 fps from the Federals is just too powerful for the drum. These 1600 fps Federals kicked like a mule. The first time it happened, I just thought that the drum was not properly seated. After 3 attempts, I was sure that the drum was locked in. When I fired the first shot, the spent shell did not extract, the drum dropped, and any loaded shells would fly out of the drum. The shell failing to extract was the first problem I had with the Saiga. I've found that gas regulator position 1 is completely worthless on my gun. I think it pretty much closes off the ports not allowing proper air flow. So far everything runs fine on position 2 except for the drum w/ 1600 fps shells.

[Nephilim7 107]

Was the temperature the day the low recoil shells cycled higher that day than the day they failed? Were they heated in the sun the day they worked better? I have found borderline shells to be highly sensitive to temperature. Not to mention more drag in a cold gun. Just a thought...

[SaigaNoobie 66]

I'd recommend replacing one of the recoil springs with a lower power version BEFORE modifying any bolts etc. Only because you can easily swap it back if it doesn't help.

 

Also, My 3gun S12 will run value pack bird shot all day long, but I tried using reduced recoil slugs, and they short stroked. Those things are BABY loads.

 

1 1/8oz, 3dram bird all day or Remington Sluggers 2 3/4.

 

Shy away from the reduced recoil.

 

Also, Shotguns don't have extremely hard primers, so a lower power hammer spring can maintain reliability while reducing the energy needed to cycle the bolt over the hammer and cock it against the spring.

 

~SN

[Doug Hartley 526]

Try the Fiocchi 7/8s AeroSlug (black box - 12LESLUG). It's a little hotter than Fiocchi yellow box 1 oz loads but they won't kick the shit out of your shoulder like 1600 FPS slugs will. I've been using them for years out of my Saigas and they are very accurate. I just buy them by the case when I find them at a good price.

 

Doug

[Beretty 37]

Was the temperature the day the low recoil shells cycled higher that day than the day they failed? Were they heated in the sun the day they worked better? I have found borderline shells to be highly sensitive to temperature. Not to mention more drag in a cold gun. Just a thought...

 

I'm in FL so temperature may have had something to do with it. Maybe I let them bake in the sun at the range.

I'd recommend replacing one of the recoil springs with a lower power version BEFORE modifying any bolts etc. Only because you can easily swap it back if it doesn't help.

 

Also, My 3gun S12 will run value pack bird shot all day long, but I tried using reduced recoil slugs, and they short stroked. Those things are BABY loads.

 

1 1/8oz, 3dram bird all day or Remington Sluggers 2 3/4.

 

Shy away from the reduced recoil.

 

Also, Shotguns don't have extremely hard primers, so a lower power hammer spring can maintain reliability while reducing the energy needed to cycle the bolt over the hammer and cock it against the spring.

 

~SN

I had a lot of reduced recoil shells stocked up because I use them in my 18.5" pump gun. I have been testing different loads in my S12 and Promag drum for reliability. The gun runs everything else fine so I don't really think I'm at the point I need to modify anything (recoil spring, bolt, etc.), just keep it between 1200-1500 fps. I was only interested in the ambi Lightning Bolt because I already a left side bolt handle and just want the options.

 

Try the Fiocchi 7/8s AeroSlug (black box - 12LESLUG). It's a little hotter than Fiocchi yellow box 1 oz loads but they won't kick the shit out of your shoulder like 1600 FPS slugs will. I've been using them for years out of my Saigas and they are very accurate. I just buy them by the case when I find them at a good price.

 

Doug

 

Thanks, I'll give them a try if I can find them. Those 1600 slugs were pretty brutal.

[Nephilim7 107]

I came across the temperature thing when my S12 was brand new. It was only about 75% with Federal bulk birdshot loads in the drum. It was a cool but sunny day, and I remembered the old sniper trick of cooking rounds in the sun to up their pressure. I laid the shells and drum out in the midday sun for three minutes and they were nice and warm. Loaded them up quickly and they ran 100% after that. I just kept pouring them out in the sun for a while before loading up and they ran fine. Stopped doing the warming on one drum and started having trouble again. I've heard this gives 50 cal sniper loads another 200-300 fps under the right circumstances. YMMV. Of course, be very careful when heating live ammo!

[DresNightfire 39]

I came across the temperature thing when my S12 was brand new. It was only about 75% with Federal bulk birdshot loads in the drum. It was a cool but sunny day, and I remembered the old sniper trick of cooking rounds in the sun to up their pressure. I laid the shells and drum out in the midday sun for three minutes and they were nice and warm. Loaded them up quickly and they ran 100% after that. I just kept pouring them out in the sun for a while before loading up and they ran fine. Stopped doing the warming on one drum and started having trouble again. I've heard this gives 50 cal sniper loads another 200-300 fps under the right circumstances. YMMV. Of course, be very careful when heating live ammo!

 

Higher temperatures to maximize velocity holds true. Optimal environmental conditions for shooting are no wind on a very hot day. Cooking rounds to increase their pressure is new to me, will look into it.

[Jpanzer 1,265]

I got rid of all the Fiocchi buckshot I had. That stuff loved to misfeed in my S12. Only round that has given me any serious problems...

[z-mashin 1]

I got rid of all the Fiocchi buckshot I had. That stuff loved to misfeed in my S12. Only round that has given me any serious problems...

Just shot some Fiocchi 2 3/4 #4 buckshot today with great results(0FTE/FTF) .

-S12 dph gas plug on #3(converted)

-Agp Gen3 10 rd mag

-50 degree temps

This stuff ran great in my S12 Im not sure if this is same ammo type, but it worked great in mine. Another example of big differences in S12's. The only rounds so far that have given my S12 any problems were Winchester "super speed" 7/8 oz. loads(2/ 34). Not enough poop in front of the powder.

[Run and Gun 25]

There is some powder/ammo that is reverse temperature sensitive.

[Sdustin 578]

I wouldn't think any real sniper would do this. They try to control every single aspect. A good sniper would rather have a round with less deviations and slower than a little bit faster round. That is unless they have shot and tested this condition.

[Nephilim7 107]

Brittish Sniper, Corporal Craig Harrison, made a double kill at 2,706 yards in Afganistan (March 2002) by utilizing the sun to heat up borrowed US issue .338 Lapua ammo. Took him nine shots to walk the point of impact in for the kills. The targets probably could not hear the report of the weapon at that distance. I'd say it is more art than science, but using the sun can work pretty well. It's an amazing story.

[Sdustin 578]

Link to story?

[Nephilim7 107]

This is the best I could find quickly:

 

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2010/05/brit-sniper-makes-double-kill-at-1-54-miles-with-338-lapua-mag/

 

I learned much more about it from an article in American Rifleman magazine a several months ago (maybe even a year ago?). The article was about some of the world's most successful snipers. If you dig, I'm sure more details can be had. Two in a row at slightly more than 1.5 miles is some fine shooting!