witmen 0 Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) Hello everyone, I'm hoping someone might have some advice for what I should do next. My Saiga 12 has polished internals and it has the MD Arms puck and V-Plug, yet it still fails to cycle with cheap ammo. I checked for gas ports and I could only see one hole in the very center, but I could feel the edges of two additional holes with a pick. This lead me to believe that my FTE issues were being caused by the gun not getting enough gas and I went to enlarge the hole on the gas block to try to cure the problem. The picture below is what I discovered. As you can clearly see, the hole in the gas block wasn't blocking any of the ports. I stuck a pin through the ports and none of them were clogged. It took considerably more effort than I was expecting to get the gas block off of my Saiga 12 and it now feels like I may have wasted my time. If it were your gun, what would you try next? Should I go ahead and enlarge the gas block hole? Or maybe use a drill bit to enlarge the ports? Add a new port? or maybe do all of the above? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Edited September 11, 2013 by witmen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
DavidQ 170 Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 I personally enlarge them by one size on the drill bit scale. Should be good to go. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
vulcan16 971 Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 Hello everyone, I'm hoping someone might have some advice for what I should do next. My Saiga 12 has polished internals and it has the MD Arms puck and V-Plug, yet it still fails to cycle with cheap ammo. I checked for gas ports and I could only see one hole in the very center, but I could feel the edges of two additional holes with a pick. This lead me to believe that my FTE issues were being caused by the gun not getting enough gas and I went to enlarge the hole on the gas block to try to cure the problem. The picture below is what I discovered. As you can clearly see, the hole in the gas block wasn't blocking any of the ports. I stuck a pin through the ports and none of them were clogged. It took considerably more effort than I was expecting to get the gas block off of my Saiga 12 and it now feels like I may have wasted my time. If it were your gun, what would you try next? Should I go ahead and enlarge the gas block hole? Or maybe use a drill bit to enlarge the ports? Add a new port? or maybe do all of the above? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Drill the three holes out to .093 at the correct angle. Stick a toothpick in one of the holes so you can see the correct angle while drilling. Enlarge the gas opening block with a 11/32 bit, then reassemble. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
im_n2_vws 28 Posted September 11, 2013 Report Share Posted September 11, 2013 (edited) I experienced the same problems. I had my internals polished, installed an autoplug. Still would not run anything but buckshot/highbrass etc. I did the same thing, removed the block. Thought the same thing all my holes were clear. Then I checked on here for the proper sized holes. Mine were about half the diameter that they should be. Just because they are clear, doesn't mean anything. If the holes are the wrong size it is still undergassed. I opened them up to the size that the members on here recommended and it runs like a champ!!! Edited September 11, 2013 by im_n2_vws 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
TIMTIMTIM 57 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Don't bother putting any add ons till it runs right. Its very easily attainable without them. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Jack (JT) and Tim have it right. We also need to know barrel length. We have all assumed 19", but it could be longer or shorter and we have no info on it. Barrel length and port location (factory or not) directly affects gas impulse duration and thus cycling. We need to know more details. FYI, the auto plug is an excellent product and my personal favorite, but it will not let more gas through the system than the factory plug. Nothing beats the factory plug for low brass. Setting "2" of course. I shot 400 or so rounds through mine stock, straight from the factory and had it running well before I swapped ANY parts. Swapping parts gives you a moving target to hit in adjustments. Don't believe everything you read here on the forum. Some will lead you to a ruined gun or face! Edited September 12, 2013 by Nephilim7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
witmen 0 Posted September 12, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 (edited) Sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread. My boy was sent home from school with a stomach bug shortly after I posted the OP and I've been taking care of him since. More details about the shotgun. I have put at least 500 rounds through it and it has always done great with buckshot and slugs, but won't reliably cycle bird shot. I would love to be able to go to Walmart, grab a Winchester, Remington or Federal value pack and just shoot off a hundred rounds of it without having frequent failures. My wife would especially like for me to be able to do that as the ammo my Saiga likes is starting to get expensive. The barrel is 19 inches, It has been converted and the internals move smoothly enough that it will pass the free-falling bolt test that is described in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk9xxlCUyDU I was convinced that the gun must be under gassed, I still have the gas block off. So I think I will go ahead and enlarge the ports with a 3/32 drill bit and enlarge the gas block hole. I'm not sure if it will make any difference at all, but I've already gotten this far. It feels like it would be a waste of time to just put it back together without having changed anything. Once I do have the gun put back together, I think I am going to test it with the stock plug again. I've been using the V-Plug for so long and have always just assumed that it must be better than factory, but perhaps it isn't. I never really compared them extensively. One last question. Is it simply unrealistic for me to expect a Saiga 12 to reliably cycle the Wincherster, Federal or Remington value pack ammo? Edited September 12, 2013 by witmen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Skitterfish 10 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 My saiga runs the Federal flawlessly and has for a thousand rounds or so. I haven't had any Remington available to try for a long time but it used to give me some issues and the Winchester won't run in anything but my pump guns and side by side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
garnaz 215 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Sorry for taking so long to get back to this thread. My boy was sent home from school with a stomach bug shortly after I posted the OP and I've been taking care of him since. More details about the shotgun. I have put at least 500 rounds through it and it has always done great with buckshot and slugs, but won't reliably cycle bird shot. I would love to be able to go to Walmart, grab a Winchester, Remington or Federal value pack and just shoot off a hundred rounds of it without having frequent failures. My wife would especially like for me to be able to do that as the ammo my Saiga likes is starting to get expensive. The barrel is 19 inches, It has been converted and the internals move smoothly enough that it will pass the free-falling bolt test that is described in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk9xxlCUyDU I was convinced that the gun must be under gassed, I still have the gas block off. So I think I will go ahead and enlarge the ports with a 3/32 drill bit and enlarge the gas block hole. I'm not sure if it will make any difference at all, but I've already gotten this far. It feels like it would be a waste of time to just put it back together without having changed anything. Once I do have the gun put back together, I think I am going to test it with the stock plug again. I've been using the V-Plug for so long and have always just assumed that it must be better than factory, but perhaps it isn't. I never really compared them extensively. One last question. Is it simply unrealistic for me to expect a Saiga 12 to reliably cycle the Wincherster, Federal or Remington value pack ammo? It is not unrealistic to expect gun to run on value packs. Both of mine spit them out no issue. One converted and modified by Jack JT Engineering Other by local smith. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Nephilim7 107 Posted September 12, 2013 Report Share Posted September 12, 2013 Now some will say re-profiling and polishing is un necessary bla bla and all that. Whatever. To each his own. I know my gun is a factory 4 port gun that has never had the GB off it, and after I did the re-profiling and polishing on everything it never jammed again, even with BS ammo. To each his own.... I know what works. Preach on, brotha! OP: You need to read. A LOT. Learn to discern the crap advice vs. the good advice. Start really small on that extra port and slowly come up in size to be just enough. Hint: Cobra's is ALWAYS good advice. As an aside, I don't disagree about the Winchester Universal being real crap, but it does shoot cleaner than most others. It is nearly all I shoot now. Don't give up. It can be done (and cheaply). Quote Link to post Share on other sites
witmen 0 Posted September 14, 2013 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 (edited) Thanks for the advice everyone! Well I added a hole, put it all back together and she rocks now! I love it, I just fired off 250 shells made up of Winchester, Federal and Remington value pack ammo and it just runs so well. It had 2 or 3 malfunctions while using the V-Plug, but ran flawlessly with the factory plug set to number 2. Here is a video of it shooting: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eTejryA3amw This shotgun used to FTE every shot fired from the hip, no matter what type of ammo I was using. A world of difference! Edited September 14, 2013 by witmen Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Capt Nemo 882 Posted September 14, 2013 Report Share Posted September 14, 2013 I've gone through mine looking at all the rub points and cleaned them up, and can run Federal bulk like water. Universal works on and off, and Federal 2 3/4 dram loads run about 50-70% of the time. All on a factory 4 port gun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
saltydecimator 482 Posted September 22, 2013 Report Share Posted September 22, 2013 I thought he was saying that he had NO holes in the barrel. And I'm like, duh, add some! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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