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Vepr 7.62x54R to BREN conversion.


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#1 Tigerclaw_x

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:22 PM

Hello, folks. I got the 7.62x54R Vepr, love it, great shooter. However the mag cost is prohibitive. $45 for PLASTIC mag. Some call it "free market", I call it HIGHWAY ROBBERY.
Bren mags are $7 each. They are also for a rimmed round. 303 British.
Length of 303 British - 3.075 Inches
Length of 7.62x54R - 3.0377 inches.
So length wide the 7,62x54 should fit into a Bren mag. However, will it feed?
Bren is double stack, Vepr is Single stack, so, besides widening magwell, what else should be done? Is this project at all possible? How difficult is it? I know a VERY good gunsmith who will take that project on. However, before I risk it... Is it even possible?

Thank you

D



#2 Shandlanos

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 08:28 PM

In short - Bren mags work very poorly for 7.62x54R. They're top feed, so they have a fairly weak spring. The dimensions of the 54R do not lend themselves to feed well in a Bren mag. The old Lahti mags that are actually meant for 54R, although pricier, are a much better way to go.

I believe Csspecs, who makes mags for a living, came to the conclusion that the front trunnion of the Vepr 54R does not lend itself well to a double stack mag, even if the mag well itself were enlarged. Perhaps the front trunnion could be reinforced in some fashion.


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#3 Sirex

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 09:26 PM

I had a 20rd double stack Finnish Lahti L-26 54r magazine I was going to try and fit, but ran out of time and patience. It is a 20rd, Finnish 7.62x54r double to single stack mag. It seemed like it "could possibly" be made to fit. I did not want to alter my receiver though. I think there were some at Numrich or Liberty Tree where I got mine.



#4 Shandlanos

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Posted 23 June 2014 - 10:17 PM

You would definitely need to expand the magazine well to make the L-26 mag fit.

If I could find a smith who was confident it could be done, I wouldn't hesitate. A flatback Vepr 54R that accepted 20-round L26 mags would definitely qualify as a dream gun for me.


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#5 HOG76

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 01:38 AM

 $45 for PLASTIC mag. Some call it "free market", I call it HIGHWAY ROBBERY.

 

 

How about you design, develope, and test a mag and then invest the money and bring it to market.  Then you can charge much less for it.

 

Or should someone else do all this for you out of the kindness of their heart?  It is absolutely unacceptable for some company to go through this process and make a little money, right?  They must "owe" you something right?

 

2c.gif


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#6 Tigerclaw_x

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:42 AM

 

 $45 for PLASTIC mag. Some call it "free market", I call it HIGHWAY ROBBERY.

 

 

How about you design, develope, and test a mag and then invest the money and bring it to market.  Then you can charge much less for it.

 

Or should someone else do all this for you out of the kindness of their heart?  It is absolutely unacceptable for some company to go through this process and make a little money, right?  They must "owe" you something right?

 

2c.gif

 

My heart bleeds for SGM and all other companies who charge us arm and leg.  Lets start. 1) The MANUFACTURE of the magazine is cheap - injection molding. No steel stamping (that's CSSPECS), no aluminum stamping, not anything else that is high tech is involved. Injection molding is cheaper then stamped steel. I would understand that if Steel mags cost $40 and Plastic mags cost $25. This would reflect the cost of manufacturing. But current SGM mags do NOT reflect manufacturing costs. In neither calibers. 2) If you wanna talk about "design". They didn't design shit - they took 5 round single stack mag and simply extended it to 10 rounds, also single stack. You can take look at the pictures. This is a NO BRAINER. I seen people put 2 Glock mags together, slam in a spring from uzi and show this thing off on gun ranges, and it DOES work. However, even THAT was not done right. Their first batches of mags for 7.62x54r sucked. So, why don't you cry a river about "poor, disadvantaged designers and manufacturers" to someone else. I do not want stuff for free. I do want product at a FAIR price. $45 for piece of plastic is NOT a fair price. My heart bleeds for all the greedy corporate bastards and their sychophants.


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#7 Dracozny

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 06:37 PM

Injection molding does have high upfront costs. It's the mold itself. Most injection molds are made of aluminum which has been cnc milled. So if the demand is there sure low prices make sense but until the costs of the mold are accounted for your going to have high prices to compensate. 



#8 Shandlanos

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 09:26 PM

High upfront costs require economies of scale to bring the price down. Even a basic comprehension of economics, or even math, should tell you that. Cost of manufacture is not the only factor, by far. R&D and startup costs have to be covered. That means they get added to the cost of the finished product.  If you spend, say, $25,000 starting production - you need to make that money back, and that means charging well above cost for each magazine.

With a niche product like a magazine that only fits one rifle of which maybe a few thousand have been imported - that means a substantial bump in price per magazine. If you can count on a high volume of sales, you don't need to inflate the price per magazine nearly as much. Magpul can spend $100k designing a new AR-style magazine, and not give three shits about the R&D cost - because they have a huge customer base and can count on a huge volume of sales. How many extended 54R mags do you think have been sold so far? MAYBE a thousand? Add to the price the fact that retailers aren't supplying a free service - they get to mark up their products, too - and the cost of those mags should start making a little more sense. The current price is more than I'd be willing to spend if I had the rifle - but I understand why it has to be so high.

How much did the MD-20 cost when it first came out? Wasn't it around $300? Well, once enough drums sold, his R&D and startup costs were no doubt more than covered. At their cheapest, I remember him blowing them
out for either $75 or $80 each.


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#9 HOG76

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Posted 24 June 2014 - 11:25 PM

 

 

 $45 for PLASTIC mag. Some call it "free market", I call it HIGHWAY ROBBERY.

 

 

How about you design, develope, and test a mag and then invest the money and bring it to market.  Then you can charge much less for it.

 

Or should someone else do all this for you out of the kindness of their heart?  It is absolutely unacceptable for some company to go through this process and make a little money, right?  They must "owe" you something right?

 

2c.gif

 

My heart bleeds for SGM and all other companies who charge us arm and leg.  Lets start. 1) The MANUFACTURE of the magazine is cheap - injection molding. No steel stamping (that's CSSPECS), no aluminum stamping, not anything else that is high tech is involved. Injection molding is cheaper then stamped steel. I would understand that if Steel mags cost $40 and Plastic mags cost $25. This would reflect the cost of manufacturing. But current SGM mags do NOT reflect manufacturing costs. In neither calibers. 2) If you wanna talk about "design". They didn't design shit - they took 5 round single stack mag and simply extended it to 10 rounds, also single stack. You can take look at the pictures. This is a NO BRAINER. I seen people put 2 Glock mags together, slam in a spring from uzi and show this thing off on gun ranges, and it DOES work. However, even THAT was not done right. Their first batches of mags for 7.62x54r sucked. So, why don't you cry a river about "poor, disadvantaged designers and manufacturers" to someone else. I do not want stuff for free. I do want product at a FAIR price. $45 for piece of plastic is NOT a fair price. My heart bleeds for all the greedy corporate bastards and their sychophants.

 

 

This is the most ignorant post I have seen in a very long time.  People like you who have no understanding of how a free market actually works are what is wrong with this country.  If you think the cost is too much, you step up and fill this market demand.  Put your money where your mouth is, or please shut your mouth.  If you don't like their price don't buy their product. 

 

You are obviously an "entitlement" minded person and people like you are what is wrong with this country.  If people like you were to be struck by lightning, the world would be that much better.  I will no longer sit by and let this bullshit fly.  I sure hope that you are not voting in the next election.


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#10 Ak Monty

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 12:45 AM



$45 for PLASTIC mag. Some call it "free market", I call it HIGHWAY ROBBERY.


How about you design, develope, and test a mag and then invest the money and bring it to market. Then you can charge much less for it.

Or should someone else do all this for you out of the kindness of their heart? It is absolutely unacceptable for some company to go through this process and make a little money, right? They must "owe" you something right?

2c.gif
My heart bleeds for SGM and all other companies who charge us arm and leg. Lets start. 1) The MANUFACTURE of the magazine is cheap - injection molding. No steel stamping (that's CSSPECS), no aluminum stamping, not anything else that is high tech is involved. Injection molding is cheaper then stamped steel. I would understand that if Steel mags cost $40 and Plastic mags cost $25. This would reflect the cost of manufacturing. But current SGM mags do NOT reflect manufacturing costs. In neither calibers. 2) If you wanna talk about "design". They didn't design shit - they took 5 round single stack mag and simply extended it to 10 rounds, also single stack. You can take look at the pictures. This is a NO BRAINER. I seen people put 2 Glock mags together, slam in a spring from uzi and show this thing off on gun ranges, and it DOES work. However, even THAT was not done right. Their first batches of mags for 7.62x54r sucked. So, why don't you cry a river about "poor, disadvantaged designers and manufacturers" to someone else. I do not want stuff for free. I do want product at a FAIR price. $45 for piece of plastic is NOT a fair price. My heart bleeds for all the greedy corporate bastards and their sychophants.

I'm not going to go as far as say you want something for free but it's painfully obvious you have no idea what it costs to make or design something. And to say because they extended the regular mag isn't designing its way off. If anything reverse engineering is as hard if not harder. And they had to design a mold. I imagine sgm still hasn't made any money on the vepr x54 mags.
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#11 Shandlanos

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 12:52 AM

Very unlikely that they have.


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#12 Ak Monty

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Posted 25 June 2014 - 12:55 AM

I hope they have enough capital to finish bringing that vepr12 drum to market. Although the if double stacks make it ill use those.

#13 roman444

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Posted 02 August 2014 - 10:30 AM

good day 
guys help his brother-in-arms 
I live in Russia we do not sell abgreyd to arms 
I want to buy such a product here, someone could send me http://www.carolinas...epr-forearm.htm
qn9xtkyvsbv1.jpg





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