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voonman

What is the Difference between the Saiga12 Puck Gas & Vepr12 Gas P

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Trying to figure out what the difference is between the two and could they be swapped out to work in either gun? and does anyone have pics of both side by side?

Edited by voonman

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They are different.

V12 puck is hollow on the back side and encompasses (cups) the op rod during operation.

S12 (109 type adjustable gas system) is solid. Not sure about the non adjustable 030 guns. I think they are like the V12 tho.

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They are different.

V12 puck is hollow on the back side and encompasses (cups) the op rod during operation.

S12 (109 type adjustable gas system) is solid. Not sure about the non adjustable 030 guns. I think they are like the V12 tho.

so im assuming that the saiga 12 puck wont work in a vepr 12

 

Also what different companies stock and sell new vepr 12 gas pucks

Edited by voonman

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Factory S12 puck measures like ~.825" wide and ~.590" long on my calipers.

V12 measures.... ~.825" wide and ~.735" long.

 

I suppose you could make either one work in either gun, depending on the op rod and how they were modified to work with a particular puck.

The V12 op-rod is the same length as a 109 op-rod but the V12 has about an 1-1/4" "extension" that is skinny at the end of it, to suit the needs of the gas system design.

 

One thing I'd be worried about using an S12 puck in a V12 gas block, is no way to remove it when it gets carbon fouled all to shit. The V12 op-rod has a catch built in to pull the cup shaped puck out of the gas block. S12 109 style, you push the puck out from the gas tube side forward.

 

post-20217-0-19618200-1443847383_thumb.jpg

post-20217-0-60990100-1443847741_thumb.jpg

 

^See the V12 op-rod shadow for the notch that's used to grab the inside of the gas puck.

Edited by Mullet Man

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They are different.

V12 puck is hollow on the back side and encompasses (cups) the op rod during operation.

S12 (109 type adjustable gas system) is solid. Not sure about the non adjustable 030 guns. I think they are like the V12 tho.

 

030 types use a Vepr puc from what I can tell and what I was told by Legion

Edited by JDeko

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thanx guys for your prompt replies..i lost my damn vepr 12 puck after cleaning my gun and just like your average TV remote it disappears and might reappear sometime in the future..

 

Another question i had was that i find that my vepr 12 cycles better when it is dirty v.s when it is cleaned.. Can someone explain that theory?

Edited by voonman

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In a nutshell, it can be described as 'blowby' (not an industry term). Carbon build up will actually help to keep gas in the gas block. Essentially sealing it up, creating more pressure to cycle the system faster or with more force. A clean system has more or larger gaps then a dirty system.

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I don't think it's a problem. I think it's by design because of how dirty 12g is. The Russians usually have thought the problems out pretty well.

Edited by Mullet Man

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I don't think it's a problem. I think it's by design because of how dirty 12g is. The Russians usually have thought the problems out pretty well.

Here is the weird thing..after 5-7shots using birdshot ..i get failure to eject..After those 5-7 shots.. every shot will cycle..If i use buckshot or Slug i dont have this problem..

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They are different.

V12 puck is hollow on the back side and encompasses (cups) the op rod during operation.

S12 (109 type adjustable gas system) is solid. Not sure about the non adjustable 030 guns. I think they are like the V12 tho.

 

030 use a Vepre puc from what I can tell and what I was told by Legion

 

Yes, but vice versa. the 030s came first.

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Try spraying dry molly lube on the V-12 puck. That should give better clean sealing without gumming up dirty ( normal) sealing.

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Try spraying dry molly lube on the V-12 puck. That should give better clean sealing without gumming up dirty ( normal) sealing.

ill give this a try and report back here to see if that will work ..but how much should i use?

 

 

Also what do you think of frog lube? will it be any better or not?

Edited by voonman

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OK so after using the molly lube..it did not work..but guess what worked?

a little bit of lithium grease around the puck. After dabbing a little on there..I was

Able to cycle every birds shot from beginning to end.

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Dry molly is a DRY high temperature coating that comes in a spray can. 

NEVER use any oil or grease type lube on a gas piston!

You can try using a #2 pencil and 'coloring' the piston, this will also work without gumming up the works.

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Dry molly is a DRY high temperature coating that comes in a spray can. 

NEVER use any oil or grease type lube on a gas piston!

You can try using a #2 pencil and 'coloring' the piston, this will also work without gumming up the works.

ill try the pencil to see if that works also..but the dry molly lube did not work... but after using a little grease i did not see any extensive wear or tear inside the gas port..i cycled about 100rounds ..What would be the issue if the grease is consistently used over time?

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Grease is wet and sticky...what do you think is going to happen?

 

You're way over thinking this. All this dry molly lube and pencil talk and using grease, is borderline retarded.

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In a nutshell, it can be described as 'blowby' (not an industry term). Carbon build up will actually help to keep gas in the gas block. Essentially sealing it up, creating more pressure to cycle the system faster or with more force. A clean system has more or larger gaps then a dirty system.

+1 Clean the major debris from puck face and grooves and leave the gas block fouled.

 

 

They are different.

V12 puck is hollow on the back side and encompasses (cups) the op rod during operation.

S12 (109 type adjustable gas system) is solid. Not sure about the non adjustable 030 guns. I think they are like the V12 tho.

 

030 types use a Vepr puc from what I can tell and what I was told by Legion

 

They are very similar, but not the same. The depth of the hole and the overall length are different as well as other minor inconsequential design differences. The V12 puck will not allow the bolt to lock up in all 030/433 weapons. If the carrier/op rod length is short on a 030/433, then the V12 puck will work without modification. However, the dimensions of the V12 puck are such that material can be removed (preferably with a lathe) and it can be made to work perfectly in a 030/433.

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ill continue using my lithium grease.. I dont foresee a problem..i do know that the puck does push out the grease  from around the sides of the gas block as i am firing..After taking the gun apart and examining the inside ports..there was not much of any traces of grease .only lots of carbon..I will report back if i experience any major failures over time..

Edited by voonman

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Dry molly is a DRY high temperature coating that comes in a spray can. 

NEVER use any oil or grease type lube on a gas piston!

You can try using a #2 pencil and 'coloring' the piston, this will also work without gumming up the works.

ill try the pencil to see if that works also..but the dry molly lube did not work... but after using a little grease i did not see any extensive wear or tear inside the gas port..i cycled about 100rounds ..What would be the issue if the grease is consistently used over time?

 

Grease is 'the timed release of oil'. Grease WILL get gummed up QUICKLY with gunpowder residue, and the heat will carbonize it into a nasty adhesive! It WILL FAIL! 

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Dry molly is a DRY high temperature coating that comes in a spray can. 

NEVER use any oil or grease type lube on a gas piston!

You can try using a #2 pencil and 'coloring' the piston, this will also work without gumming up the works.

ill try the pencil to see if that works also..but the dry molly lube did not work... but after using a little grease i did not see any extensive wear or tear inside the gas port..i cycled about 100rounds ..What would be the issue if the grease is consistently used over time?

 

Grease is 'the timed release of oil'. Grease WILL get gummed up QUICKLY with gunpowder residue, and the heat will carbonize it into a nasty adhesive! It WILL FAIL! 

 

But it worked and it allowed me to cycle100 rounds of birdshot.. After i peeped inside the gas port there was no nasty adhesive stuff

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Voon,

About how many rounds have you fired with the grease in there and what loads were used? Are you raising hell doing mag dumps or just taking it easy? I can tell you from experience that some of the Federal loads will indeed not jive well with lube in the gas block. It leaves a sludge-like fouling.

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The basic laws of physics do not change for individuals. Flaunt those laws at your own risk!

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Voon,

About how many rounds have you fired with the grease in there and what loads were used? Are you raising hell doing mag dumps or just taking it easy? I can tell you from experience that some of the Federal loads will indeed not jive well with lube in the gas block. It leaves a sludge-like fouling.

my gun does not fire the walmart federal or winchester 100round  bird shot bulk packs there isnt enough power behind those to give my gun a full cycle..So far after my test i did a few mag dumps and a total of 100rounds with the grease inside the gas block with no failure to feed or eject... it fires winchester AA and remington game loads and Remington nitro sporting clays and every single buckshot or slug you can think of ..After the test i could see a little bit of the grease oozing out from gas block where the gas tube joins..After disassembling the gun i noticed no greasy fouling or sludge..I think it is because the ammunition i am using is not that dirty also as i am firing the grease is escaping from the gun itself..I will have to make a video and post it here so everyone can get an idea of what is happening..

 

post-16872-0-52889400-1444153625_thumb.jpg

post-16872-0-22328000-1444153641_thumb.jpg

post-16872-0-11408000-1444153651_thumb.jpg

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Any of the rounds pictured ought to be more than enough. They are also the nicest choices for reloading.

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You are doing pretty good to reliably cycle Winchester AA 1300 fps with a barrel that short. Factory springs or no?

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